Make your Florida ICU reservations now, Beds are filling up quickly!!

[Rule3]

Moderator Edit:

See post #37 before replying to this thread.
No politics...
Remain civil and don’t resort to personal attacks...
Regards,
s&wchad
————————————-
What did they think was going to happen?. People have been clustering like flies at bars, restaurants, beaches etc. Now we are back to lets close the beaches mandatory masks, cancel July 4th festivities.

No worries, herd immunity and it's only a cold mentality prevails! Numbers subject to rapid change.

Workbook':' Public

[dmn57]

I'm glad my 90 year old father was talked out of his annual July pilgrimage to Daytona Beach Shores. Maybe it was me suggesting that this year it might be a one-way trip.

[stansdds]

For the 20-somethings, this virus usually presents few problems. When they get it, they suffer mild to no symptoms at all, but they are spreading the virus. The real trouble starts when they go home and spread it to mom, dad, grandma, and grandpa. With this virus, if you have underlying health issues, and most of the over 50 group do, and then combine it with being over 60 years of age, you can find yourself very sick and possibly terminally ill.

[AJ]

Originally Posted by Rule3

What did they think was going to happen?. People have been clustering like flies at bars, restaurants, beaches etc. Now we are back to lets close the beaches mandatory masks, cancel July 4th festivities.

No worries, herd immunity and it's only a cold mentality prevails! Numbers subject to rapid change.

Workbook':' Public

Lots and lots of people are stupid. The biggest problem is that this takes some of those out of the gene pool and some that aren't. Wish it was a more selective bug.

[Ranger17]

Yep up here they just turned back open levels in restaurants to just 25% down from 50%. And basically closed bars in the Madison area but not other counties. About half of all new cases in the spike here were the 18-25 demographic and many linked to bars. Heck there were lines to get in some before, what did they expect. Though with the drinking culture here and closures not being state wide, it just means more on the road driving across county lines to where bars are open. But that issue is for another discussion....

I just feel terrible for the owners of shops and restaurants who continue to struggle in all this. Especially those trying to do things correctly.

[AJ]

Originally Posted by Ranger17

Yep up here they just turned back open levels in restaurants to just 25% down from 50%. And basically closed bars in the Madison area but not other counties. About half of all new cases in the spike here were the 18-25 demographic and many linked to bars. Heck there were lines to get in some before, what did they expect. Though with the drinking culture here and closures not being state wide, it just means more on the road driving across county lines to where bars are open. But that issue is for another discussion....

I just feel terrible for the owners of shops and restaurants who continue to struggle in all this. Especially those trying to do things correctly.

Sad to say a lot of small businesses that barely made it through Round 1, probbably will not make it through Round 2.

[Ranger17]

Originally Posted by AJ

Sad to say a lot of small businesses that barely made it through Round 1, probbably will not make it through Round 2.

This is so true.
From our nephew who owns a restaurant to knowing the owner of our grandson’s karate studio and seeing what they are going thru; it’s a struggle that if they do end up making it thru will still leave emotional scars. And I’m sure financial ones as well.

[Rule3]

Per the Governor, State of Texas is now requiring masks


Texas Makes Face Masks Compulsory in Reversal by Governor

[Maddog 521]

I think people "clustering" at riots and protests has a lot to do with what's happening also.

[Steve912]

Originally Posted by Rule3

What did they think was going to happen?.

And in other news---reality vs panic:

COVID-19 Module Data Dashboard – Patient Impact and Hospital Capacity Pathway | NHSN | CDC

[stansdds]

One factor to consider with hospital beds; states went into phase 1 reopening and that allowed for elective surgeries, joint replacements, and cancer diagnosis and treatment to resume. These procedures take up a significant number of hospital beds.

[Marshwheeling]

Originally Posted by Maddog 521

I think people "clustering" at riots and protests has a lot to do with what's happening also.

Wishful thinking. Two biggest factors:
1. How dense the population is.
2. How dense the population is.

[rubiranch]

I'm grateful that I don't share the same fear as soo many others do.

[UncleEd]

Originally Posted by AJ

Sad to say a lot of small businesses that barely made it through Round 1, probbably will not make it through Round 2.

Sadly, we're probably not into Round 2 but still in
Round 1.

The U.S. piecemeal response to Covid19 instead
of a mandatory national policy as in most European
nations means failure.

[twodog max]

So much misinformation.

[Steve912]

Originally Posted by twodog max

So much misinformation.

It's an election year.

"Never let a (real or imagined) crisis go to waste."

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by twodog max

So much misinformation.

Much is cherrypicked to fit an ideological agenda.

[Rule3]

No cherry picking here. I get my information direct from my source in the largest hospital network in the county and surrounding counties. This is not "statistical" numbers but actual numbers of full ICU beds. Of course some folks here, know more than Hospital administrators and MDs

No agenda, no BS. believe what you want.

In the words of someone else. all further replies
"Duly Noted"

[Beemerguy53]

Originally Posted by twodog max

So much misinformation.

The USA alone accounts for about 25% of all the world's deaths so far from this illness. The European Union has banned Americans from traveling there. Where is the misinformation? Did the Europeans ban us because they have some ulterior motive, or because they are misinformed?

We have more than 125,000 people dead from this in a little more than three months. The medical advice from the CDC and other professionals has been consistent and simple: To limit the spread of COVID-19, wash your hands frequently, cover your nose and mouth, and stay about six feet away from others. I have yet to hear a single doctor or infectious disease expert disagree with that.

[Absalom]

Originally Posted by Maddog 521

I think people "clustering" at riots and protests has a lot to do with what's happening also.

The interesting thing is that this has turned out not to be a significant factor, even though those who’d love to find more to blame on the protests will be disappointed to learn this, and may not even hear about it on their selective media.

The numbers in those locations where protests have happened simply don’t show any unusual spikes in infection, or are even doing better.

The explanation being explored is simple:

The virus will indeed spread more easily in the (numerically not that large) protest crowds.

But they have actually kept a much larger part of the population in those locations, those not involved and concerned about safety, from going out and about.

And by that they have unintentionally increased “social distancing”, and more than cancelled out any “protest effect” spreading the virus.

[Golddollar]

Originally Posted by stansdds

For the 20-somethings, this virus usually presents few problems. When they get it, they suffer mild to no symptoms at all, but they are spreading the virus. The real trouble starts when they go home and spread it to mom, dad, grandma, and grandpa. With this virus, if you have underlying health issues, and most of the over 50 group do, and then combine it with being over 60 years of age, you can find yourself very sick and possibly terminally ill.

Thank you for putting so succinctly why I believed it was necessary to cancel our family reunion for this year. I still have living aunts and uncles who are older than me who have various and sundry underlying health conditions, and I also fall into the enhanced risk group.

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by Steve912

And in other news---reality vs panic:

COVID-19 Module Data Dashboard – Patient Impact and Hospital Capacity Pathway | NHSN | CDC

No one has refuted the CDC info I see. Or maybe they just don’t want to read.

[Onomea]

Originally Posted by ladder13

No one has refuted the CDC info I see. Or maybe they just don’t want to read.

The C.D.C. Waited ‘Its Entire Existence for This Moment.’ What Went Wrong? - The New York Times

5 times the CDC got it wrong on coronavirus | Just The News

Scientists Say New, Lower CDC Estimates For Severity Of COVID-19 Are Optimistic : Shots - Health News : NPR

Top Trump Officials Clash on Whether CDC Let the U.S. '''Down''' | Time

CDC says its testing fail didn’t hurt US response. Experts disagree | Ars Technica

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by Onomea

The C.D.C. Waited ‘Its Entire Existence for This Moment.’ What Went Wrong? - The New York Times

5 times the CDC got it wrong on coronavirus | Just The News

Scientists Say New, Lower CDC Estimates For Severity Of COVID-19 Are Optimistic : Shots - Health News : NPR

Top Trump Officials Clash on Whether CDC Let the U.S. '''Down''' | Time

CDC says its testing fail didn’t hurt US response. Experts disagree | Ars Technica

Glad you posted that, thanks since the gloomers always like to say “follow the CDC”.

Others, know info gets cherry picked or otherwise gets “updated”.

[Onomea]

I agree there has been an incredible amount of confusion in the US about how to respond. And the CDC is certainly responsible for much of it.

That whole mask fiasco, for example. “We don’t need masks. They don’t do any good. (Unless you are health worker..)” to “Everybody should wear masks all the time in public.” A 180!

I am hoping the whole mask thing has been finally put to bed in the last few days...

[ladder13]

The scientists are not infallible.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...D7fz7jJj1nUiJR

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...RaNy3mSzRgKeJk

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...Je3LolkmPLcJQC

[Onomea]

This is a pretty good, humorous commentary on the evolution of our knowledge on Covid-19, comparing it to a horse race.

[Absalom]

But the central problem remains this:

The people who actually know something disagree and change their position as information, data, test results etc. become available. It’s an incredibly complex and fluid situation.

Because uncertainty is scary and uncomfortable, people who understand very little don’t believe anything anymore.

Instead, they use what they think is their “common sense”. Unfortunately, in a large part of the population that’s not very commonsensical any more.

We may witness the results on the beaches, in parks, restaurants, and at other traditional holiday venues this weekend.

[PatriotX]

Originally Posted by Rule3

No cherry picking here. I get my information direct from my source in the largest hospital network in the county and surrounding counties. This is not "statistical" numbers but actual numbers of full ICU beds. Of course some folks here, know more than Hospital administrators and MDs

No agenda, no BS. believe what you want.

In the words of someone else. all further replies
"Duly Noted"

The anti-science position that many have taken has its roots in several sources. Ignorance or lack of cerebral horsepower is the largest culprit, with the loudest protests coming from the left side of the bell curve.


The political component can’t be discounted, either. It helps to establish a foil, always important when pandering for votes. A politician would NEVER rile up an already-suspicious voting block just for their own gain, would they?


In addition, the warm feeling of belonging -tribalism- helps to reinforce the shunning of both the people and ideas that make them feel uncomfortable, different, or threatened somehow.


Mixed messaging, undermining the very experts trotted out to calm a nervous populace, and a fragmented and delayed response to a fast-moving crisis - this is why we’re in this situation. Can we please NOT continue the descent into Idiocracy by ignoring the people who spend their entire lives and careers trying to fix this stuff?

[Onomea]

Originally Posted by PatriotX

... Can we please NOT continue the descent into Idiocracy ...

I read that Max Boot column yesterday, too. (Even tried to watch the movie, very briefly, but gave up after ten minutes.)

[PatriotX]

Originally Posted by Absalom

We may witness the results on the beaches, in parks, restaurants, and at other traditional holiday venues this weekend.

I witnessed it last weekend, in an area with hospitals already filled to overflow.

This guy regretted his choice. Alas, a bit too late: Man Regrets Attending BBQ Before Dying of Coronavirus | PEOPLE.com

[Warren Sear]

It is important to help the news media keep the panic and fear whipped up.

Thanks for doing your part.

[PatriotX]

Originally Posted by Warren Sear

It is important to help the news media keep the panic and fear whipped up.

Thanks for doing your part.

It is important to counter media hysteria with primary sources, and boots-on-ground reports.

My info comes from those wearing the PPE, not holding the microphones. You may choose to believe whomever you’d like.

[UncleEd]

Originally Posted by ladder13

Get a grip. The politics, sly as your side thinks it is, is blatantly obvious to anyone with any brain cells.
So much for you “cerebrals”.

Another cerebral on ignore, bye.

I now turn to the ultimate authority
on this pandemic discussion:

Sean Hannity advises wear the mask.

[Absalom]

Leaving the aspect of tribal loyalty signalling aside for a moment:

Has it occurred to anyone else that many of the arguments of the anti-maskers sound exactly like those of the anti-gunners?

You don’t need one, the statistics show it’s safe without one, they don’t work as you think they will, your chance of actually protecting yourself or your loved one with one are remote, yada yada ....

Pretty ironic that the demographics of those two groups likely mean many are now on exactly the opposite side.

[misswired]

Voicing concerns with our trusted family physician Thursday, I received this trusted advice. We are not going to catch this virus, wear your mask, wash your hands and maintain social distancing when you have to be around others.

Doc, I’m basically around one fishing buddy and a trip or two grocery shopping a month. He said; “ maintain your distance in the store, make sure your fishing buddy is following guidelines and you will be OK.”


He wisdoms have not failed us yet.

[s&wchad]

I deleted a number of posts. We’ve allowed discussion because this is a serious issue, but our rules haven’t changed. Points only for future violations.

Keep in mind:
- We don’t allow political discussion or comment.
- Petty bickering and personal insults: Knock it off. State your opinion calmly and allow others to state theirs.

[The Big D]

...but happy to report I am still alive and quite well after a five (5) night visit to Clearwater Beach.

Airplanes were about 80% full. United REQUIRED masks.

Hotels required masks when inside. Most places asked you to wear a mask when entering their place to imbibe/eat. About half had BAR service...i.e. you could sit at the bar. The others required sitting at a table. All did discourage walking around inside their establishments.

There were lotsa people enjoying themselves. Saw no one flaunting ‘restrictions.’

Did look for the memorial for all the college students who many predicted would surely die after visiting during spring break. Not surprisingly, there isn’t one.

Played golf the last three (3) days here at home. I did ride a cart alone as a precaution for others. However, it must be noted EVERYONE shook hands post-rounds as gentlemen golfers always do. Yes, I did tell my partners that I had recently been in Florida.

Be safe...be well.

[S&W59]

Around 95% of the people that contract this virus get over it. Of that 35% have it and never know it. The unfortunate 5% that require hospitalization have health issues that compound the virus' effect. Most of those infected have varying degrees of flu-like symptoms and recover in about ten days to two weeks.

Hospitals are not designed to handle pandemics, they're designed to make money. ICU's are generally small because unused ICU beds are cost centers and under non-pandemic situations are adequate. Hospitals are businesses and they design, staff, and prepare for day-to-day operations to deliver general health care and charge a hideous sum for alleviating human suffering and misfortune. Until we put a leash on medical costs and profiteering in the medical field, this will be the case. The lack of ICU beds isn't the result of the pandemic, its the result of bean counters in the business office how the hospitals will turn the highest profit.

[ladder13]

I’ll put my pro 2A stance up against anyone on this forum. Anyone.

If you have intentions of debating read the Second Amendment first.

[Farmer17]

So what do the experts say about the wind? Does the virus carry or does it still drop to the ground within 6 feet, I don't want to be downwind from someone if it does. In all the tests I've read about there is never any mention of wind or the recirculating supply/return air in a building or home HVAC system? The CDC and WHO have received billions in tax dollars over the years to study this virus they should know something?

[steelslaver]

Originally Posted by ladder13

Much is cherrypicked to fit an ideological agenda.

Here is a non cherry picking fact for you.

Nationwide, at least 113,800 more people have died than usual between March 15 and June 6

What Is the Real Coronavirus Death Toll in Each State? - The New York Times

What could cause such a thing?
Couldn't be the Virus now could it as it is only media hype.

Here is another "Fact" The deniers have maintained it was nothing from the time of the first death till there are over 125,000 deaths and they will continue as this thing soars again and we add more and more.

Yes, the science people have made some errors. But, they pale in the face of the mistakes of those calling it media and political hype

BTW I am a million miles from being a liberal of any sort. I am also not stupid.

PS stating things like everyone who dies is listed as a virus death isn't even cherry picking. Its using a couple of of small fibers to make a suit.

[Golphin]

Originally Posted by Rule3

No cherry picking here. I get my information direct from my source in the largest hospital network in the county and surrounding counties. This is not "statistical" numbers but actual numbers of full ICU beds. Of course some folks here, know more than Hospital administrators and MDs

No agenda, no BS. believe what you want.

In the words of someone else. all further replies
"Duly Noted"

No sure that makes them a good source it again depends on their agenda. Here in Gainesville Florida there has been a surge in positive test but hospitalization and ICU is not up. Shands has a couple 100 beds for Covid-19 and there are 20 being used with 5 in ICU. That hospital serves people from Alachua and many surrounding counties. The median age for those infected has dropped to people from 20-35 in age.

[rubiranch]

Its a virus and the government can't save you from it.
The governments job is to protect my rights, not my health.
Eventually everyone will come in contact with it.
I see people wearing masks and touching everything around them and then pull their mask down off their face with their contaminated hands.
Once you touch your mask with your contaminated hands you really need to wash your hands and put on a new mask.
If masks work then why shut everything down?
If you fear getting the virus I'd suggest that you stay home.

The overall Covid-19 recovery rate is between 97% and 99.75%.
43% of Covid 19 deaths are linked to nursing homes so I suggest you avoid those too.

[Warren Sear]

^^^ Perfect.

We are each responsible for our own health.

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Originally Posted by Warren Sear

^^^ Perfect.

We are each responsible for our own health.

Now THAT is a radical thought

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by Warren Sear

It is important to help the news media keep the panic and fear whipped up.

Thanks for doing your part.

My info comes from me.

I was in the hospital, WakeMed specifically, during the supposed height of this “pandemic”, 4/23-4/26.
There was not one single Covid patient in the whole hospital during that time, not a one. Not ICU or otherwise.

How do I know? All the staff there told me so.

The hospital is HUGE.

The hospital closed one area, CICU, due to lack of patients and moved those in that wing to another area.

Nurses were being laid off or had their hours cut drastically due to lack of elective patients.

They were waiting for the surge that never came. Not even a single drop.

No one here can dispute this, they weren’t there.

[Robspeire]

I have a business in the Panhandle of Fla. I shut it down and left 5 weeks ago. $$ is not worth dying for. Seems I was right.
Infectious disease specialist: Florida 'heading a million miles an hour in the wrong direction'

[Warren Sear]

^^^ Good for you.

I stayed working the whole time, and am doing fine.

Each one decides their best course of action.

[65-2x2]

Just South of 11,500 new cases in Florida today.......