SHOCKED AT PAUL HARREL CLEANING VIDEO!!

[chief38]

I usually watch Paul's videos and agree with him about 85%-90% of the time. Last week he published a new video and on it he proceeds to clean an AR-15, a Beretta 92 and a S&W Centennial J frame outside on a picnic table. The shocking part is that he uses a bar of bath soap and water with a toothbrush. After cleaning, he douses the guns with more clean water from a 5 gallon dispenser!

While one could possibly make the argument that all the water would evaporate from the easily gotten to insides of the AR and the Beretta - there is no way in hell it is just going to evaporate from the inside of a Centennial without popping off the side-plate - and water will get in! Plus, who wants to leave guns laying on a picnic table in the sun waiting hours for them to dry! ??

I left a post in the comment section of his video but he didn't really show any concern over that - just stating that he is never afraid of getting his guns wet and he has had them under water many times.

Why one would opt to use water which is about the worst thing I could think of in a region where he lives (very wet, damp and humid) instead of a proper gun cleaning solvent/lube/ preservative has me very perplexed - to say the least! You would think he'd want to get rid of all moisture instead of adding it.I could understand his procedure for Black Powder guns but these were all modern smokeless guns!

Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinions but his choice for cleaning firearms really ruffled my feathers! Again, he does not live in the Arizona dessert - he lives in the Northwest where is rains/snows almost every day and is damp and humid! I'm still wondering of this video was published mostly for "shock value" or he really believes this is the best method for him to use in his area.

While he does state in the beginning that "this is not an instructional video and it is only the way he does it" - there will be plenty of "Paul Harrell Fanboys" that will duplicate what he does.

The video I am referring to came out on Oct 2nd and is on his Youtube channel if anyone is interested in watching it. Post what you think after watching it.

[Golphin]

I think I will stick to the old fashion way of cleaning mine.

[old tanker]

I suspect that more than a few GI's will chime in about taking a hot shower with their weapon to get them past a fussy armorer.

A couple of white haired ones might even recall carrying M16s muzzle down during the monsoon season, for good reason. Rain counts as a bore obstruction...

'Course, the black powder cartridge guys, we use water all the time. Some well heeled ones use steam cleaners. Water displacing lubricants, and your wife's blow dryer can be useful too.

Gun's Turbo Cleaner, Accessories Professional accessories steam cleaning machine for muzzle loading and man.

[misswired]

Seems like a complicated process; the dishwasher is much easier

[chief38]

I could see his method being used on an emergency basis in the field - but certainly not as a regime for routine cleanings when better methods are readily available. As a guy who is usually cautious and measured, I don't understand where his ideology is here.

[moralem]

His guns, his methods......i personality wouldn’t do it but not my guns.

[billwill]

Senior moment?....Maybe he got himself and the guns mixed up. Would imagine that CLP would be a little rough on the skin

[rockquarry]

There is some good stuff on YouTube, but a lot that is not good. Best to use YouTube only when you've exhausted better sources.

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Don't see anything wrong with it-been using soap and water (actually dawn dishwashing detergent) and a toothbrush to clean all sorts of guns for years. Don't leave them in the sun to dry though. Last thing I do is pout boiling water from the tea kettle over them for a final rinse. They come out clean and lube free. Carefully relube and store. I was taught the boiling water method years ago in chemestry class as a way to completely clean lab equipment-had a "urethrea" moment realizing that it would work with guns as well and for the past 40 or so years have been happily cleaning guns that way. That is the absolutely best way to clean out a gummed up S&W revolver . Take the side plate off, loosen the built up crud with your solvent of choice and toothbrush, rinse it all off with boiling water and you are left with a totally clean and dry inside which you are not free to properly lube.

[REM 3200]

Originally Posted by old tanker

I suspect that more than a few GI's will chime in about taking a hot shower with their weapon to get them past a fussy armorer.

A 55 gallon drum cut in half, first one with boiling soapy water, the second one with boiling clean water will leave a rifle squeaky clean, in need of oil and grease as needed.

Originally Posted by old tanker

A couple of white haired ones might even recall carrying M16s muzzle down during the monsoon season, for good reason. Rain counts as a bore obstruction...

After a river or stream crossing, you had to hold the muzzle down and pull the charging handle part way back for the same reason, to drain the water.

[Golddollar]

I seem to remember seeing a photo of a rifle being held with the muzzle in a bucket of hot soapy water with the idea of pulling the hot water up through the barrel by suction from the patched cleaning rod. This was from back in the time where there was so much corrosive ammunition around.

[armorer951]

Paul is a little short on armorer experience I'll wager. The big problem with water, and especially really hot soapy water (which tends to evaporate pretty quickly) on and in a firearm is that there are many nooks and crannies in there that will take on water by a sort of capillary action. The result is that the parts inside these holes and crevices will inevitably oxidize and their function will be compromised. The spring and plunger inside the rear of the bolt, the spring in the cylinder stop, the interior of the sideplate screw holes, and the parts inside the hammer and trigger would be classic examples. Just not a good idea IMO.

But, like one member posted, they're his guns. I wouldn't expect them to last very long using that water and soap regimen.

If you do have an accidental drowning of your firearm, remove the ammunition and grips, field strip or remove at least the sideplate and yoke/cylinder assembly if you are able, and use a hair dryer to blow hot air on the frame and removed parts until they are hot......so hot that you can't pick them up and hold them for long. Ten to fifteen minutes or so of this hot air on the parts will drive off any water on or in the gun. Compressed air is also good, and will dislodge water from the cavities, but it will not help dry the moisture after it is displaced.

After this treatment, I would still recommend taking the gun to the nearest trusted gunsmith (or your local armorer) for a checkup and re-lubrication of the interior.

[Drm50]

We took M16s in shower with us. This freaked me out. They also had cleaning station set up where water was so hot it evaporated off gun. We weren’t using soap it was GI bore cleaner. Stinking stuff I still have a couple quart cans from over 50yrs ago. Water isn’t going to hurt gun if it’s all dried off and relubed. I’ve fell in the creek with m34 and couldn’t rest until I took it totally apart cleaned and lubed. Carry 422 as fishing piece now.

[Old cop]

It’s not unusual for Paul not to reply to comments about his videos. I like & watch him often, commented a few times but never received a response.

[s&wchad]

Hot soapy water works great If you’re shooting corrosive loads. I use it on my muzzleloaders, including a Ruger Old Army. It’s pretty easy to disassemble the OA action to scrub, rinse, dry and re-lube the internals. A modern revolver is different story. There’s no need to completely tear them down for routine cleaning when shooting non-corrosive ammo.

I suppose hot soapy water might work OK if you flushed the internals, blew the moisture out with compressed air, sprayed the inside with lubricant and blew it out again. Personally, I wouldn’t risk it.

[jeffrefrig]

I kinda liked the dishwasher idea, but mine is afraid to touch my guns! Actually, my washing machine has some sort of steam cleaning cycle and a removable basket to put in stuff like shoes, etc. I suppose that would work as long as you don't automatically throw them in the dryer. Then spray the Ballistol on everything and wipe it down. I don't let my guns get that dirty, but a new used one I would prefer electronic circuit board cleaner, rinse and repeat. That CBC cleans & dries like all get out and doesn't mess up plastic. But, the fumes are as fun as that PVC pipe cement & cleaner! Head-aches guaranteed.

[Justin T]

I have boiled parts before in preparation for cold bluing. I’ve also washed Mosin parts in boiling water to pull cosmoline off the gun during cleanup.

I don’t think I’d trust myself with cold or warm soap and water-I don’t think I would be thorough enough in removing all of it.

But boiling water is A-okay.

[TX-Dennis]

Originally Posted by CAJUNLAWYER

-had a "urethrea" moment.

Sure glad I wasn't there to see that.

[Stroker468]

He stated that he was taught that methods in the “Corps”. My buddy is a Marine. He disagrees, and was baffled by this suggestion. But, whatever works for you...

[Rammer Jammer]

I like some of what Paul Harrel publishes. But some of his methods are quite antiquated.

Someone described him as a sentient stack of Guns & Ammo magazines from the 80's and they weren't far off.

[Stroker468]

Originally Posted by Old cop

It’s not unusual for Paul not to reply to comments about his videos. I like & watch him often, commented a few times but never received a response.

...but he does reply to emails.

[chief38]

Originally Posted by CAJUNLAWYER

Don't see anything wrong with it-been using soap and water (actually dawn dishwashing detergent) and a toothbrush to clean all sorts of guns for years. Don't leave them in the sun to dry though. Last thing I do is pout boiling water from the tea kettle over them for a final rinse. They come out clean and lube free. Carefully relube and store. I was taught the boiling water method years ago in chemestry class as a way to completely clean lab equipment-had a "urethrea" moment realizing that it would work with guns as well and for the past 40 or so years have been happily cleaning guns that way. That is the absolutely best way to clean out a gummed up S&W revolver . Take the side plate off, loosen the built up crud with your solvent of choice and toothbrush, rinse it all off with boiling water and you are left with a totally clean and dry inside which you are not free to properly lube.

Caj, he is not using boiling water nor is he removing the Side Plate for the gun to dry. Yes - if you do what you are doing I suppose it's OK, however simply leaving a J frame on a picnic table for an hour isn't gonna cut it!

[chief38]

In my younger days I use to wear an ankle rig to carry my M60. One day I exited the car and unbeknownst to me there was a very very deep pothole filled with water (it was dark). My gun took a bath! I completely disassembled my gun when I got home, cleaned and lubed it and that was the last time I used an ankle holster. Yes - there was water inside.

[Drm50]

Paul is a good shot, according to his trophies. Hickok is a good shot and was involved in shooting sports. For some reason this makes them an expert on any gun related matters? We now have NFL & NBA stars dappling in politics. Does that make them experts on world problems? No it doesn’t and Harrel has segment on how to spot phony experts. I know how and most on videos aren’t experts.

[Golddollar]

This is where military semiauto pistols really shine. I had some Egyptian 9mm shells that I suspected were corrosive. In this day and age that's the stuff I wanted to shoot for practice. I have several 9mm handguns so I decided to take one that would be easy to field strip. So I took out my chromed Browning High Power and went to the range to shoot it for the first time. With the simple field stripping I was able to flood the barrel and slide with hot water to make sure all of the corrosive elements were flushed out. When I saw what came out on the cleaning patch I figured after all this the gun was cleaner than when I bought it.

[Old_Cop]

My M16 went into the shower with me at basic prior to final turn in, Fort Gordon 1968

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by chief38

I could see his method being used on an emergency basis in the field - but certainly not as a regime for routine cleanings when better methods are readily available. As a guy who is usually cautious and measured, I don't understand where his ideology is here.

I'm going to guess he's had good results or he wouldn't be still be doing it.

[Drm50]

Originally Posted by Golddollar

This is where military semiauto pistols really shine. I had some Egyptian 9mm shells that I suspected were corrosive. In this day and age that's the stuff I wanted to shoot for practice. I have several 9mm handguns so I decided to take one that would be easy to field strip. So I took out my chromed Browning High Power and went to the range to shoot it for the first time. With the simple field stripping I was able to flood the barrel and slide with hot water to make sure all of the corrosive elements were flushed out. When I saw what came out on the cleaning patch I figured after all this the gun was cleaner than when I bought it.

I just gave away several hundred rounds of that Egyptian 9mm.
I bought it with those Helwan 9mm pistols. That ammo is dirtiest stuff I’ve ever fired. I think they used camel chips instead of powder in them. I was going to sell it but decided it would be bad PR. Not sure if giving it away was good PR.

[bulletslap]

I see nothing wrong with using his method on a M16/AR15, and acceptable for the 92 Beretta, no way on the revolver without a detail strip and clean.

[Echo40]

While I personally wouldn't clean my firearms that way unless I had absolutely no other option, it's important to note that water itself doesn't readily cause rust, it's the oxygen in the water, ergo so long as the water evaporates or is dried off before too long, it won't result in any rust.

Folks often take for granted just how often steel tools are exposed to moisture without rusting to any serious degree. For example, consider the steel parts on the underside of your automobile, think of how often you drive in the rain or through puddles, yet when you get beneath the vehicle to replace a part, how rusted is it, really? Yeah, there will be some surface rust after awhile, but it's hardly disintegrating. It's because that metal typically gets very hot, ergo the moisture evaporates, hardly ever sitting undisturbed on the surface of the metal, save for maybe in the Winter.

Based on my observations, rust is typically more often caused by sweat than ambient moisture in the air or little drops of water on the surface of the metal. Sweat is salty and acidic by nature, which speeds up corrosion dramatically.
Practically everyone knows this, but people have a tendency to be vain, thinking there's no way that their sweat could possibly be that corrosive, so they choose to blame water for surface rust on their firearm regardless of the fact that it's obviously the result of being pressed up against their sweaty skin or at least a holster which has been soaking up their sweat all day.

Another good example is cutlery, most of which is made of steel nowadays, and therefore spends a fair amount of time exposed to moisture, cutting through meat or vegetables, soaking in a sink, drying in the dish rack, etc. However, dispite the regular exposure to the acids/salts in the food it is used to prepare and the water it is often in direct physical contact with, it doesn't rust out. Furthermore, said cutlery is typically bare metal, no bluing, no coating, no Ferritic Nitrocarburizing like on your firearms, just bare metal.

Oh, and for the record, I'm by no means a fanboy of Paul Harrel, in fact I've actually been quite critical of some of his testing methods as well as the conclusions he has reached or the opinions he has stated.
Do I watch his videos? Yes, but much like everything else I watch on YouTube, it's primarily for the sake of entertainment rather than education.

[oink]

When I was on the boats I had a very wet boat if there was any seas at all. When running outside my gun, a 4" 686, would get completely soaked with salt water. On those days when I got back to the dock I'd take the fresh water hose and wash it down real good. Unfortunately it wasn't hot water. I didn't take the side plate off every day. I would dry it off and squirt some WD inside and wipe the outside down with an oil cloth. It was fuzzy inside one time when I did open her up. Looked good from the outside though. I eventually sold that gun and started carrying my 669. I just didn't want to have to take the side plate off every day it got soaked because it happened just too commonly. The 669 was way easier to de-salt and maintain. I did miss a drop of salt water one that left a little spot of rust pit inside the barrel hood. Oh well!

But hot soapy water followed by a near boiling rinse and shake dry should work fine, followed by proper lube.

[rwsmith]

Usually Paul explains why he is doing certain things and doesn't automatically recommend something. I'm going to watch the video.

[HenryT]

It is important to listen to his disclaimer at the beginning of the video.

[Old cop]

Originally Posted by Stroker468

...but he does reply to emails.

Do you have an email address for him?

[Old 44 Guy]

I remember back in the 50's cleaning our M1 Garand's with boiling water in an Emersion heater with soapy water.

[rwsmith]

...are thoroughly dried and lubed there should be no problems. He didn't show how long he left the parts in the sun but he thought it was enough to dry them. He did say there were several ways to accomplish different parts.

That was much different than I expected but it explained a method of cleaning I'm not familiar with but I may use in the future for particular guns and reasons. As it stands that's not they way I clean my guns. He also clearly said this was A way he learned and didn't recommend it unless you feel it is proper for you.

I prefer his shooting/testing videos but I consider him to be a good source of info.

[robrossk]

Maybe a dumb question but is this method really much different than using a sonic cleaner for metal parts?

[Donn]

Didn't take mine in the shower, but hot, running water was the best way to clean my M14's trigger housing group. Dad, (RIP), gave me that piece of advice. That's what he did with his M1 when he was in basic training.

[TTSH]

Originally Posted by rwsmith

Usually Paul explains why he is doing certain things and doesn't automatically recommend something. I'm going to watch the video.

Correct. Paul goes out of his way to make sure you understand he is talking about what he does and that it is not a suggestion or recommendation for others. One of his fanboys dissed me one time for mildly questioning one of his "suggestions"... only to be told that Paul does not make suggestions. He only tells you what he thinks or does.

If you pay close enough attention, it turns out that is true.

[chief38]

Originally Posted by TTSH

Correct. Paul goes out of his way to make sure you understand he is talking about what he does and that it is not a suggestion or recommendation for others. One of his fanboys dissed me one time for mildly questioning one of his "suggestions"... only to be told that Paul does not make suggestions. He only tells you what he thinks or does.

If you pay close enough attention, it turns out that is true.

I did mention that very phrase in my original post. That said, one of the problems with Youtube "celebrities" is that people who are not knowledgeable or savvy tend to emulate them. I'd hate to see a newbie ruin his Revolver because water was left in there to turn into rust!

[TTSH]

Originally Posted by chief38

I did mention that very phrase in my original post. That said, one of the problems with Youtube "celebrities" is that people who are not knowledgeable or savvy tend to emulate them. I'd hate to see a newbie ruin his Revolver because water was left in there to turn into rust!

I think I am reinforcing your point... ... i.e., that people will take his words and actions as suggestions or recommendations. I certainly took his words as suggestions in a different video, but was then shot down by one of his fanboys stating: "Paul does not do suggestions or recommendations"!

[rwsmith]

Paul acknowledges that he gets plenty of criticism and people seem bent on 'proving' some Youtube presenters 'wrong'. Sometimes he is compelled to defend himself, but he perseveres.

I don't agree with everything anybody says, but I watch his videos because I have learned a great deal from them.

I've seen some Youtubers that I cross my fingers at like they are vampires. Terrible advice.

Oh, one thing I wish Paul would do would be to film the 'lecture' parts of his videos indoors instead of on the range.

[__steve__]

I wonder if effective gun cleaning approaches may vary some depending on climate. It looks like he’s located at least 2000ft in elevation, with little relative humidity. It obviously works for him and he stated, that is what the video was about. Curious if he’s on the spectrum however.

[Kinman]

I clean all my muzzle loaders once a week with a hot soapy (Simple Green) water ******, followed by compressed air and a dry patch, followed with a liberal dose of WD-40 down the barrel which is blown out with compressed air, another dry patch, another shot of compressed air and a final pass of a Kroil dampened patch...put away and never had any rusty spots. I used to use Ballistol on the last patch but I found that it resulted in a common failed ignition of the first shot, Kroil does not deliver that problem. I use Ballistol on the outside, wood, leather, etc.
I clean black powder cartridge rifles with patches soaked with a secret cleaning formula, its the same one I put through the barrel between shots, they are cleaned til dry and again given the Kroil after treatment and exterior surfaces, wood, etc. with Ballistol. Other firearms are usually cleaned with Hoppe #9, Kroil for final wipe of barrel and cylinder.
I clean more than most and am amazed at how ****** others keep their firearms, not surprised at all when people have trouble with faulty ignitions on muzzle loaders. When was the last time you cleaned that thing?

[steelslaver]

If you were to put it in an oven at say 350f for an hour or so any moisture would turn to vapor and then go away. 350f would not hurt any temper. I would take the stocks off.

Not my way of cleaning guns, but Hot soapy water will clean metal well and if it is not enough it dries fast. The nooks and crannies in a revolver would be a problem without prolonged higher heat.