Cursive Writing

[2tall79]

Now that our schools have decided to discontinue teaching our children cursive writing, what are they supposed to use as a legal signature? I asked my 14 YO grandson to sign a document yesterday and he merely printed his name.

[Absalom]

I try not to curse in writing

But seriously, there is not, nor has there ever been, any requirement or even just a convention that signatures have to be cursive.

Your name in individual letters if applied by you is a valid signature. And if you can’t write anymore, you can use a rubber stamp. These days, even electronic signatures are perfectly legal.

[Muss Muggins]

Originally Posted by 2tall79

Now that our schools have decided to discontinue teaching our children cursive writing, what are they supposed to use as a legal signature? I asked my 14 YO grandson to sign a document yesterday and he merely printed his name.

If "X" has always been legal, then printing is fine. If that's your signature, then that's your signature. Mine is a capital letter, a squiggel, a capital letter, and then another capital letter and another squiggle. How's that different?

[smoothshooter]

I do not like the idea of cursive writing being dropped from the curriculum, younger people do not communicate using pens or pencils anyway. Kindergarten teachers report getting lots of kids that show up having never been taught at home how to draw with pencils and crayons, or even how to hold one.
The Army is reportedly dropping grenade throwing training from Basic Training because they are getting so many recruits that have never thrown a baseball or anything else, and so valuable time is wasted trying to teach something they should have learned at home. Grenade training is to be taught only to people in combat arms MOS’s in the respective AIT schools. Or that is the last I read.
More signs of the times.

P.S - As far as I know, even an “X” has always been legal.
Most people’s signatures are unreadable anyway. Mine has always been readable, even when I was a kid. I always believed if I needed to sign something, have enough pride in the thing so as to leave no doubt as to who was signing it.

[gjgalligan]

My signature seldom look the same any two times I write it.

[Chubbo]

It should be interesting, to see how our children find a way to, electronically, wipe their nose, or their posterior.

[Jessie]

Less education is a good thing, right? It leaves more brain space for…other things…

[waffles]

Good. We wasted a lot of time in elementary school being taught cursive, and by middle school it was already "strongly encouraged" to type any papers rather than printing or writing in cursive. Since then I've used writing it for signatures, and that's about it.

Reading it occasionally proves handy when someone posts or finds old correspondence of interest to our hobbies, but that alone is not a justification to continue wasting the time on it. Dump it, spend the time on math or another useful subject.

You'll get a few curmudgeons complaining about it because something they learned way back is no longer useful, but that'll be about the only downside, balanced out with the real upside of freeing up time for useful learning.

[CH4]

Due to the requirement of having to write police reports in block print and the introduction of computers, I now very rarely write in cursive, however when I do write in cursive, I cannot do it fluidly; each letter requires thought.

My penmanship has always been poor, but I have regressed back to my 3rd grade ability.
I was always envious of folks with pretty handwriting

[SAFireman]

It doesn't matter whether I print, or use cursive, nobody can read it anyhow!

Just wait until you have read a paper written in text-speak

[arjay]

The time we spent in elementary school learning cursive is used to teach kids to type and use a computer. My kids did this in 3rd grade and are in their 30s now.It’s like teaching a kid to use a stick shift. Might come in handy someday,but it’s an irrelevant skill now.

[Dashriprock]

If one can't write cursive, one likely can't read the Constitution.

My 12 y.o. learned cursive in third grade. While they are allowed to print handwritten essays, most opt to write in cursive.

[waffles]

Originally Posted by Dashriprock

If one can't write cursive, one likely can't read the Constitution.

My 12 y.o. learned cursive in third grade. While they are allowed to print handwritten essays, most opt to write in cursive.

Even before we had computer access I don't recall anybody (of the already small number of people bothering to read it all the way through) bothering to read it as pictures of the actual document rather than as a typed up reprint. Now anyone can access it even easier than ever before, for free, at any time from any place, in a searchable format like this: U.S. Senate: Constitution of the United States

Its a huge improvement over having to seek out an already outdated handwritten or photocopied hard copy.

[GypsmJim]

Children in foreign countries were becoming so much smarter than USA kids. To fix that we reduced the amount of stuff they had to learn.

As a factory supervisor in charge of on-the-job training I had to modify a lot of what I did in class. Printing was only 1 thing - I also had to remove any old fashioned analog clocks because many of the younger workers couldn't tell time unless it was digital.

Reading comprehension is also pitiful. And I dispute the comment that learning cursive was replaced with computer training. Most recent graduates can play farcebook on a tweeter, but their skills on a PC are pathetic. Note that I'm talking about "graduates", not GEDs.

Many years ago I worked with an old codger who was the plant night watchman and office cleaner. He could not read or write, but his work ethic, morals and personal responsibility would trump half of the kids today.

Naturally, my comments are not meant to generalize, since many current youngings are stellar achievers. What's sad is that there are way too many that aren't.

[Truckman]

Originally Posted by SAFireman

It doesn't matter whether I print, or use cursive, nobody can read it anyhow!

Just wait until you have read a paper written in text-speak

My cursive skills have slipped into the realm of unintelligible jibberish...I have to print notes to myself, or I can't read them...My Mom could still write at the age of 98 in the same beautiful handwriting she used her entire life...

I ignore textspeak......Ben

[arjay]

Originally Posted by GypsmJim

Children in foreign countries were becoming so much smarter than USA kids. To fix that we reduced the amount of stuff they had to learn.

As a factory supervisor in charge of on-the-job training I had to modify a lot of what I did in class. Printing was only 1 thing - I also had to remove any old fashioned analog clocks because many of the younger workers couldn't tell time unless it was digital.

Reading comprehension is also pitiful. And I dispute the comment that learning cursive was replaced with computer training. Most recent graduates can play farcebook on a tweeter, but their skills on a PC are pathetic. Note that I'm talking about "graduates", not GEDs.

Many years ago I worked with an old codger who was the plant night watchman and office cleaner. He could not read or write, but his work ethic, morals and personal responsibility would trump half of the kids today.

Naturally, my comments are not meant to generalize, since many current youngings are stellar achievers. What's sad is that there are way too many that aren't.

I disagree. Those schools have a two track system where the kids who aren’t particularly good students are steered towards the trades,etc and learn skills they can use on the job. This country ignores those kids.In years past we had plenty of decent paying low or no skill jobs for them,but we don’t anymore.

[Pisgah]

For 8 years I worked as an HR manager. I reviewed applications and interviewed applicants every day. Cursive or printing made no difference to me, but the fact is that virtually all highschool and even most college grads could not complete the application. The most common question I heard : "What does this mean, previous employment?" But most of the time, they'd just leave it blank... along with stuff like name, address, phone... They really had no clue what they were being asked.

[Muss Muggins]

Originally Posted by smoothshooter

. . . I always believed if I needed to sign something, have enough pride in the thing so as to leave no doubt as to who was signing it.

Before I retired, I dealt with a misunderstood young lady who signed her name backwards, as in an exact mirror image, in cursive. When I asked her why, she said it was so that nobody could steal her identity.

If someone had managed to steal her identity, I suspect her credit rating would have gone up . . .

[Rifleman200-10X]

Originally Posted by Jessie

Less education is a good thing, right? It leaves more brain space for…other things…

Something like this?

[LoboGunLeather]

Originally Posted by waffles

Good. We wasted a lot of time in elementary school being taught cursive, and by middle school it was already "strongly encouraged" to type any papers rather than printing or writing in cursive. Since then I've used writing it for signatures, and that's about it.

Reading it occasionally proves handy when someone posts or finds old correspondence of interest to our hobbies, but that alone is not a justification to continue wasting the time on it. Dump it, spend the time on math or another useful subject.

You'll get a few curmudgeons complaining about it because something they learned way back is no longer useful, but that'll be about the only downside, balanced out with the real upside of freeing up time for useful learning.

I can agree with your post if, and only if, the time saved is actually used for math or other academic purposes. Unfortunately, most public schools have abandoned such subjects also. There seems to be little time for anything other than proper socialization and self-esteem polishing.

Twenty years ago as an employer I learned that a high school diploma is not a guarantee of any level of proficiency in reading, writing, mathematics, or anything else. Reading and following simple written instructions is way too much to expect. Forget about addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, converting fractions to decimals, US or world history, basic civics, or any other fundamental knowledge.

[Grayfox]

[s&wchad]

It’s a shame they’ve dropped cursive from the curriculum. Traditional skills like writing, grammar, simple mathematics and spelling come in handy in life. Decent penmanship also gives you an excuse to use a nice fountain pen!

The Mrs. and I both saved old letters and cards that we received. Somehow, a text message that says “I luv/<heart> U” just isn’t the same as a hand written letter.

[Golddollar]

Originally Posted by smoothshooter

P.S - As far as I know, even an “X” has always been legal.
Most people’s signatures are unreadable anyway. Mine has always been readable, even when I was a kid. I always believed if I needed to sign something, have enough pride in the thing so as to leave no doubt as to who was signing it.

When I was studying Wills and Estates the professor told how he would try to make sure an infirm client could make a mark on a a Last Will and Testament to create a valid will as provided for under PA law.

When I was working I signed hundreds and hundreds of commitments to insure, title insurance policies and deed certifications. Just like you said, I wanted to make sure there was no doubt that the document was signed by me.

[waffles]

Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather

I can agree with your post if, and only if, the time saved is actually used for math or other academic purposes. Unfortunately, most public schools have abandoned such subjects also. There seems to be little time for anything other than proper socialization and self-esteem polishing.

Twenty years ago as an employer I learned that a high school diploma is not a guarantee of any level of proficiency in reading, writing, mathematics, or anything else. Reading and following simple written instructions is way too much to expect. Forget about addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, converting fractions to decimals, US or world history, basic civics, or any other fundamental knowledge.

Math, writing, reading, science, etc., are all still taught. I don't think they're taught particularly well, and the quality of teaching varies vastly state to state.

You'll hear no argument from me against the idea that many of our public schools are in a pretty bad way these days, but dumping something as time-intensive and as little-utilized as cursive seems to be a step in the right direction regardless. The kids will still be there the same amount of time and whatever teaching fills that time will almost certainly be more useful than teaching cursive.

[Onomea]

My maternal grandmother had beautiful, cursive handwriting.

While my own handwriting has always been execrable, I admire those few whose handwriting is beautiful.

While I think it is no longer a practical, useful skill to have, I also think it something beautiful which is increasingly disappearing from our lives.

[steelslaver]

Cursive is every bit as necessary as the ability to run a slide rule.

[Patrick L]

It's all good. When we're in the nursing home, we can pass coded notes planning our uprising. None of the caretakers will be able to read them!!!

[2152hq]

Taking Cursive Script to another level and writing in a Calligraphy style really brings the handwriting into an art form.
Most any font, letter style can be used but the script styles really shine.

Takes a lot of practice to learn the style(s) and be able to easily write them w/o even thinking about forming the letters. A step above standard script.

But the world seems to have settled for printing if handwritten at all.

Odd to me to see any document were it says 'Signiture........' then under it or next to it says 'Print name'.........
Both are the same printed 'signitures'.

When I worked as a Jail Dep booking prisoners, many teens and early 20's folks up from the South couldn't read or write. To sign the Booking form they simply placed an X,,and some had a hard time even holding a pen making that figure 'X' .

Many younger people these days can't even make out what many of the script letters are. Does it matter?
I really don't know.
I'd like to think it should. But getting them to be able to read and do simple math and even show up for school would be an even better start.
Make it an elective maybe.

Language & word usage & meaning changes over time,,so does writing habits as well.

[Ivan the Butcher]

I have a box of Peter's 38 S&W that was my grandfather's. On it is written : "$1.57 paid October 17th 1928 at Johnson's Hardware Store". This was written in beautiful flowing cursive, using a Fountain Pen! I know my kids and older grandkids can read it. It will be a shame when his descendants can no longer understand his writing on the box of ammo that saved his and my dad's life, thereby allowing them to exist!

Ivan

[Mike, SC Hunter]

Originally Posted by steelslaver

Cursive is every bit as necessary as the ability to run a slide rule.

The Hoover Dam was built by people with #2 pencils/note pads and slide rules.

[Buford57]

My father and grandfather kept journals in their later years. Wish they had started sooner. Grandpa was born during the Grant administration and died during Truman's. Went from telegraph to television, steam locomotives to jet planes, Gatling guns to atom bombs. Only the last few years survived and that was after his stroke. Still perfectly legible cursive script. I spent many pleasant nights scanning Dad's notes on life after he passed - all in neat, clear cursive. When I was around 50 I started doing the same in cursive that looked amazingly like Dad's. A few years ago I realized that my sons might be able to decipher it, but theirs hadn't a prayer, so I switched to the block printing I used on carbon-copy triplicate police reports. After about two months I decided anybody who was interested enough in my thoughts to read them could learn cursive.

[mtgianni]

In 1968 when the teachers told me I could block print i said "Hurrah" and never looked back. I have few problems reading cursive other than my wifes, and she cannot read hers more than half the time. I think it's as necessary for most as a good mastodon gun.

[WuzzFuzz]

Hmmmm...To anyone who looks at my signature, they probably wonder if there shouldn't be a "Dr." in front of it.


WuzzFuzz

[waffles]

Originally Posted by Mike, SC Hunter

The Hoover Dam was built by people with #2 pencils/note pads and slide rules.

And the Three Gorges dam was designed using engineering software. Technology improves, old practices fall behind.

[monsai52]

Until recently I never remember hearing the term "cursive", why back when, when I was in grade school, it was either printing or handwriting.

So I learned cursive in grade school and by High School I had dropped it and was printing everything. This worked for years, but when I decided I needed a career change and went to law school, there was no way I could print fast enough for note taking in class, or for exams. So I resurrected my long dormant handwriting skills which significantly increased my writing speed. The only thing I print anymore are forms that require they be in block letters. If you write a lot with pen or pencil and paper, like I do in my job, it's so much faster and easier to use "cursive".

Best regards,

[Grayfox]

I had the shop clerk ask me one time why I filled out all my work orders in block print? My answer: "Nobody can read my cursive."

[arjay]

It really does kids a disservice teaching them skills that served their grandparents but have been replaced by newer more efficient methods. There are only so many hours in a school day and they have to prioritized. Yes we have kids who are illiterate and can’t do simple math.That’s a parenting and school failure. (On a side note,an old classmate of mine became very successful after his parents bankruptcy. He owns a huge historical hotel and an incredible house. He recently told me that his dyslexia (who knew?) is so bad that he has boxed and boxes of t shirts for his gift shops that are so misspelled he can’t sell them. He had no idea they were!) He’s a smart guy,but he can barely read

[pharmer]

Not so much problem not writing cursive as much as not being able to spell multisyllablic words correctly. My signature is "somewhat" cursive, its' usefulness being my ability to identify if'n I wrote it or not. Joe

[Old_Cop]

Stupid proles are happy proles. Keep socializing and indoctrination with your extra free time. We'll see what happens after the EMP.

[Rustyt1953]

I miss cave drawings.

[Chubbo]

It’s interesting, to review my relative’s cursive writing. Dad, and one of my maternal aunts, practiced their cursive writing diligently. My aunt’s cursive writing, equaled, or bettered writing found in Hallmark’s greeting cards. Dad’s writing, was pretty, but only average for his time.

I have samples of my relative's writing, and cherish them dearly. My quality of cursive writing has sadly deteriorated. Beautiful, cursive writing has become a lost art, that I fear will never be recovered.

[waffles]

Originally Posted by Old_Cop

Stupid proles are happy proles. Keep socializing and indoctrination with your extra free time. We'll see what happens after the EMP.

If having to print instead of write cursive is in the top thousand of problems after an EMP attack I think we're doing pretty well.

[TXBryan]

Originally Posted by Mike, SC Hunter

The Hoover Dam was built by people with #2 pencils/note pads and slide rules.

Good point! So was the atomic bomb and the Saturn V rocket. Bet most of the handwritten notes, in lab notebooks back then, are written in cursive. And I still have my slide-rule - probably destined for a museum.

We adopted a child when I was 50 and our son is now a freshman in high school. He cannot write, or read, cursive worth a darn. I used to lament that I could not provide the same kind of idyllic childhood for him that I enjoyed. Just not possible these days I'm afraid. Then it occurred to me; that would be a disservice, even if possible, for what is it about my childhood in the 60s that would prepare my son for his future?

I sure wouldn't want to be 15 today but he does well in school, is bright and inquisitive, and seems to be preparing well for his future. His computer, and typing, skills are relatively more important than cursive - though it still drives me a little nuts he can barely sign his name.

His mother and I can, and do, tease him about it being a secret code.

[Bro. Dave]

Probably like most of you, I was taught the Palmer method of handwriting with the white lettered exemplars on green strips around the top of the classroom above the chalkboard.

Over the years I've seen some of my considerably older friends whose handwriting showed evidence of the older Spencerian method with ornate swirls and flourishes.

Ironically, my single semester of high school typing (that was styled "Personal Typing") stood me in good stead during the transition to keyboards. I still have to stop and look when typing numbers, sadly.

[Greyman50]

Here you are, read this.97276F80-B824-43B2-B21D-F2CABC310A01.jpg

[kamloops67]

Originally Posted by Mike, SC Hunter

The Hoover Dam was built by people with #2 pencils/note pads and slide rules.

And 96 people were killed during construction of that dam 🤔

[TX-Dennis]

My son graduated high school last year and is now studying chemical engineering. He learned to write in script. He can tell time on an old-fashioned clock. He can do basic math without a calculator. But, he did not go to our local public schools which are pretty dismal. I remember his second grade teacher telling me that talking to Caleb wasn't like talking to other kids. She said he had the vocabulary and conversational skills of a tiny adult.

I know quite a few bright youngsters, though, who do attend public schools. A bright kid will succeed even in a bad school. It's the less bright kids who suffer.

[arjay]

I had a cousin with a great artistic talent who started her work life as a teacher and in her thirties worked as a calligrapher for hallmark. It was ideal for her but that was 40 years ago. Do they even use calligraphers anymore or just software?

[Rifleman200-10X]

Cursive, yep, I still write that way, but I can truly see why it's dying out. Some people's cursive writing is nearly intelligible, but you can usually sort out their printing. How about a doctor's shorthand prescription writing??? I for one would rather have some clearly printed or typed prescription, rather than some illegible scribble.

[steelslaver]

Originally Posted by Mike, SC Hunter

The Hoover Dam was built by people with #2 pencils/note pads and slide rules.

Ya in 1931.

The Pyramids built by people who used hieroglyphics and bronze tools 4450 years ago

Not a single slide rule was used to sent a space ship and robot crawler to explore Mars and all the blue prints were printed

Your point???

Back in the early 70s I took a couple college drafting courses which required printing. I pretty much quit cursive after that, except for my barely legible signature. With as much practice as went into cursive you can print every bit as fast as using cursive and have everyone able to read it. Taking time to think about what your writing is more important than speed anyway. But, if your worried about speed, then 30 words per minute is fast in cursive and really really slow typing. I have not use a slip stick since HS. Drafting boards and tools are approaching their twilight years too. Remember T squares. I still have one of those somewhere.