I am going to a county legislature hearing later today and may speak. Our club shooting range is in danger of being closed since an ajoining property owner purchased land and has had an ongoing campaign to close the range since building a house nearby. He built his house behind the original backstop, and we turned our range and rebuilt to the tune of about $20K. This resulted in the range being closed for a year.

The county legislature gave us a permit for 25 years about 4 years ago, but the same man continues to try to close the range. He has gotten petitions from people living in a subdivision that is about 1/2 mile behind the firing line, and has stirred up property owners that are behind the backstop. It is rumored they have contributed to the campaigns of some legislators.

The range has been in operation for nearly 50 years without any incident that I know of. On the 60 acres of club property is a trap range used by high schools for competition and at least one police department uses the rifle and pistol ranges for training.

It is assumed that they don't like the noise, but a state law protects shooting ranges from noise complaints. They want the range closed due the danger of stray bullets causing injury. The new property owner found a quantity (100+?) of bullets on his land and another neighbor says he has a bullet hole in his satellite dish and barn. I think they have caused a "stray bullet hysteria" to justify closing the range closing.

The range has really tightened rules to prevent bullets leaving the range, including rules tests, paper targets only, no offhand rifle shooting. About half of club members are NRA Range Safety Officer trained. The range was inspected by an NRA rep, and suggested improvements made.

Help me present the best argument for why the minimal risk that still exists (all ranges have risk if anyone lives nearby) is allowable, and the range should stay open.

Thanks

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To be a rock and not to roll

I'm sorry to hear this Pbslinger. That makes me very angry. What did the guy expect but noise when he buys a house next to a shooting range? Good luck, man.

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All Rights Reserved

Tell them that if you do get shut down you're gonna turn it into a heliport. Or a cattleyard.

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Certified AR-15 / SIG Armorer.

Pbslinger,

Where is your range located and it's name?

Bob

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Bob
KDØQCE

Lake Lotawana Sportsman's Club in eastern Jackson County, Missouri.

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To be a rock and not to roll

I strongly suggest getting in touch with the NRA. They have experience with these kinds of issues and can probably assist you. Also contact your NRA field representative and ask for his help. He may be able to line up people who can testify on behalf of the range. IMHO you need help from people who have experience in this field.

http://www.nrahq.org/shootingrange/findlocal.asp

http://www.nrahq.org/fieldreps/index.asp

I suggest a pig farm if you have to close the range

Nice touch. Or a trailer court with about 500 spaces.

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Qui plantavit curabit

Has the club leaders reached out to any of the local property owners and offered free memberships or an "olive branch" of some sort. Who keeps the club grounds groomed? Maybe reach out to the property owners even if they are 1/2 mile behind the club and offer lawn mowing etc. I am sure the club charges a membership etc/dues, even if they were raised a little to offset the cost of helping the nieghbors somehow it would be worth it not having the range shut down. Does your club have dinners etc.? Put on a community spread once a month etc. When holidays come around try to include them somehow. These are just ideas that could be used to bring them around. The worst that can be done is to give these people the "middle finger" and not acknowledge any of their gripes, even if they are *********s and totaly wrong and your right. In the case of any "accident or incident" that involved these peoples property and it was proven the club was never at fault; unfortunately the club will still get a "black eye". -Good Luck.

This is an issue, The range I belong to gets the same **** since the houses that can hear the gun fire sell for less than the surrounding neighborhoods,,,,,,, Like moving next to an airport and complaining about the air planes.
The stray bullets are an issue though.
My range also hosts many shooting competitions which bring income into the area, As well as the prison guards train there as well as local police.

Never concentrate on what the range does not do, Concentrate on it's benifits to the area and it's monitary impact as well as easing possible over crowding of the roads it 300 McMansions were built there!
Peter

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Need 1/2 moon Chiefs special

+1 on the pig farm

Close. Actually since your members probably own the land the only way to recoup your investment would be to turn it into a landfill, or better yet a hazardous waste disposal facility.

I've actually seen that work.

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" I said, good DAY! "

Get the NRA ad a darned good lawyer on your side. ASAP.

As a general rule, one cannot "move to the nuisance" and then try to change it.

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NHI, 10-8.

Why do people build a house next to a gun range then complain about the gun range? Why do people build houses in the country then complain about smells from neighboring farms? Why do people buy houses next to an interstate highway or an airport then complain about noise?

I think some believe the world revolves around them and should change to make their lives easier. I think others are just plain stupid.

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Insert short witty words here

That USED to be the general rule. "Coming to the nuisance" WAS a valid basis to shut the whiners up in court. That was then; this is now.

Ever since Spurr v. Del Webb was decided, courts have used a "best use" analysis to destroy long-established businesses on the grounds that, because times change and yuppies came to bring civilization to benighted, blighted areas, their new use of of the land (McMansions) pre-empts the property rights of those who came before.

As others have suggested, contact the NRA and get a GOOD zoning/land use lawyer.

This may be a fight you can not win, but you may be able to make it very interesting. You will have to go to court. Make sure you have documented everything. 1) The range was there first. 2) He was aware the range was there when he built a home behind the berm. 3) You reoriented the range not out of necessity, but to placate his irrational fears. 4) He has continued to agitate the community against you. and 5) You are willing to relocate the range if he is willing to purchase a site suitable for your range, bear the cost of reconstruction the facilities you have on your current range, and will bear the clean up cost to dismantle the current range so it is not a public nuisance when used by unauthorized/ unsupervised individuals. My best guess is that will cost him about 5 times the cost of his house and he will drop the issue. At that time you need to counter sue to recover you costs of the suit and the 20 K you needlessly spent to try to placate him. Play hard ball!

We've been fighting a similar battle with our local Izaak Walton range. Placation not only didn't work but backfired. It emboldened him. We've been in court for years. When he started talking to the papers it got real bad. The federal magistrate put a gag order on all of us and threatened jail time to anybody speaking to the press. That shut him up. All of our resources are going to fight this jerk. Death by a thousand cuts.

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It's around here somewhere!

Point out to the county that if they close the range, they could be made responsible for the cost of the clean-up.

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You are what you learn.

Maybe you'll be able to tie this up in court for most of the remainder of the lease. Any rabid lawyers as members?

I remember a nice ranch style house in Natchez, Ms. To his left was a sewage treatment plant, on the right was a weekly livestock auction yard. And across the street International Paper paper mill.

Never understood is choice of location

+1. The range needs to get a good lawyer quickly, but don't dwell on that at the hearing, and especially don't make any statements that could be interpreted as a threat to take legal action.

When you're at the hearing, here's what to do in the short term:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE><LI>Keep things positive. Talk about how the range benefits the community with the schools and police. Play up any organized competitions that are held there.
<LI>See if any longtime range members live in the area, and try to get them to attend and speak up. Have them talk about how nice it is to have a range nearby where it's convenient.
<LI>Emphasize that the range has been there for a long time, long before the complaints surfaced.
<LI>If anyone plays up the fact that a stray bullet could hit someone or something, try to point out that it hasn't been proven that the range is a threat to anybody. "Our range has extensive safety procedures in place. I know it seems strange that your satellite dish has a hole in it, but it hasn't been proven scientifically that the damage even could have been caused by a bullet from our range."
<LI>DON'T threaten to convert the land into something worse! I've seen this tactic used in zoning hearings, and it always backfires! You will make enemies of people who didn't previously want to become involved.[/list]Long term, you need to get a lawyer and play hardball with these people. A good lawyer will force them to scientifically prove that the range is a threat, and to come up with real-world examples of how a nearby shooting range has caused neighboring properties to decline in value. They're going to have to come up with expert witnesses, the cost of which may scare them away and make them decide to forget the whole thing.

^ Good advice!


Also:
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
<LI> If there are good relations with the police dept that uses the range, see if you can get them to 'step up' and make a statement about how important the range is to thier training.
<LI> Same for the school.
<LI> Make sure and emphasize all the additional safty related actions that the range has implemented.
<LI> Get a good turnout for any hearing.[/list]

The pig farm is by far the best idea and the trailer park is a good one as well.
I don't know why people buy or build near a range or airport and then expect everyone to move to make them happy.

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Lynnie, Professional Pest

Most of them "Don't" they just purchase during the 'off season' for shooting and of course, the Developer/Realtor certainly isn't going to tell them anything about the Range and so surprise, surprise, surprise!!! And, the Developer/Realtor says "Sorry about that but YOU should have looked into things closer!" that is if he can be found at a later date.

Of course, there are the deep pocketed liberals who have "chosen" this route to take our shooting/hunting locations away as a means of getting our guns and unfortunately there are way to many of these, too!!!

If your club doesn't already have a Lawyer get one. He or she will know how to effectively defend the club and the rights of it's members.

pbslinger,

I tried to send this to your e-mail address, but it bounced, so here is some information that might help.

Contact Kevin Jamison at 816.506.0948 or [email protected].

Kevin was not aware of your hearing, if he had been a show of force would have been there.

Also WMSA is running a free bus from the KC area to Jeff. on Wednesday morning. Please try and attend our 16th annual pro-gun rally in the Rotunda of the Capitol.

http://www.wmsa.net/

This would be a great time to talk face to face with a lot of our lawmakers in Jefferson City about your and our issue.

Kevin will be there also. Please try and attend.

Bob

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Bob
KDØQCE

The hearing was pretty structured and a lawyer/member did almost all of the talking. We have to add some more safety features and have our range approved again. It will be closed for 45 days. The bullet evidence that is the basis for the evaluation is bogus anyway. Like a bullet that travels 1000 yards enters the side of a house horizontally. That's flat trajectory.

The group that is trying to shut us down is "Concerned Citizens of Jackson County" who wish to remain anonymous at this time. One of them talked to an NRA representive about features of our range and posed himself as a club member. They are willing to do about anything to try to close the range.

It appears we will jump through this most recent "hoop" and spend what it takes upgrade our range (again) to pass another inspection.

Thanks for the ideas.

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To be a rock and not to roll

Include "salting" their property with bogus bullets. This is a common tactic, usually easy to spot because such people are as ignorant as they are arrogant, and use unfired bullets or ones that have obviously been (surreptitiously) dug out of the club's backstop.

And they seldom stop trying to shut you down and will play the "save the children," "protect our neighborhoods" and "property value" cards while intimidating local officials.

I've seen it first-hand.

I think you have nailed it.

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To be a rock and not to roll

Carguychris has provided the best advice so far... A friend who designs ranges and whose architectural firm advises NRA and often examines ranges such as your's and provides "expert witness" testimony has told me many such stories, with varying results, including our local club range, which faced similar threats when my friend was its president. These get to be complex issues, and typically your opponents will be sleazy, underhanded, lowlifes, with prevaricating "experts" of their hire. I think you'd be foolish not to seek good counsel...

I am pretty hot about this. I joined the club recently, paid through mid 2010, because it is the nearest and quietest open air range near my house. I had to look far and wide to find an understanding range. (I shoot suppressed)

[EDITED out - seems I didn't have all the facts - probably still don't]

Now I have to find (and pay for) another place to shoot now that the weather is playing ball, darn it.

There are darned few safe and fun places to shoot around KC if you don't own 20 acres....

That is very interesting! I'll bet that somewhere in the middle of this are a couple of lawyers and a real estate developer who has his eyes on your range property. Somebody has plans to make a profit off all of this.

I attended an emergency board meeting for my club last night and learned a few interesting tidbits. The county legislature heard a power point presentation by a couple of men representing the "concerned citizens" on March 16. The legislature wrote a resolution based on this presentation, and planned to vote on it at the meeting on March 30.

ALL WITHOUT ANY NOTIFICATION OF OUR CLUB!

The man who was the main presenter does not even own property in the area. He is a retired Colonel in the Army with expertise in infantry tactics.

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To be a rock and not to roll

And the presentation said....... ?


It sounds like more is happening than what we thought........


Someone, or some entity, really wants the range shut down. I wonder why.........

I would like to take a moment to clear up a few misconceptions. I am the "Colonel" referenced in the blog. I spent 25 years in the infantry to include being a founding member of the 2nd Ranger Battalion. I live within a thousand feet of the range.

I am a gun owner and enthusiast. Both of my son-in-laws are gun owners and enthusiasts. I recently purchased two rifles to train my grandson in the proper and safe use of weapons. I support the continued, safe operation of this range.

The reality has been that this range has not operated safely. It was reoriented a few years ago because nearby residents found hundreds of bullets on their property-stray rounds that left the range. Since relocation, seven new bullet strikes have hit homes that lie directly over the berm. Two bullets hit a few inches below a bedroom window, one slightly below the front room, one through a satellite dish at head height, one struck a barn.... An impact analysis of the strikes point directly back to the range. In one case the house lies directly across the street from the range. There are no other houses in between. There are no active deer stands or other sources between the range and the house. The bullet strikes occurred prior to hunting season. There are school busses that traverses the road between the house and the range multiple times a day--in the line of fire.

The range is operating under a conditional use permit that requires that it meet nine conditions in order to operate. If fails to meet three of the nine. One of these is that it be constructed so as to preclude stray or richote rounds from leaving the range. The surface danger zone behind the berm is less than two thousand feet. The range does not contain blue sky or impact baffling. At one point, the resident mentioned in the blog offered to help pay for improvements. We both publically offered to physically work to make the range safe.

These are the missing pieces in the issue as presented. It isn't about noise, it is really about safety. Let's make the range safe and get back to enjoying our sport.

Ed05- Welcome to the forum. Would it be possible to post the pictures from your presentation of the bullet strike evidence here?

Sorry if I misrepresented your interest in the area. Whitepages shows your address as Windmill Estates.

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To be a rock and not to roll

FYI - the rifle and pistol ranges are still closed. I left the club after wasting my money on fees for a couple of years.

the club still talks about opening the ranges "soon".

It only took one round from an 8mm Mauser, accidentally released at a high elevation to eventually close down another range I belonged to is Eastern MO. Very rural area, a house was built 1 1/2 miles away, but in line with the 300 yd rifle range. Shooter was in prone, but reloading and getting back into position when one got away (yes he must have had his finger on the trigger). The round went 1 1/2 miles and penetrated the exterior of the house and was imbedded in the floor of a little girls bedroom. We had a lease on the ground, but the farmer/leaseholder insisted no more high power rifles. 22 RF and handguns were O.K. There was never talk of any lawsuit by any parties. But, the no high power restriction reduced the number of paying members by nearly 80% the next year and the club could not continue to meet expenses. It was closed up and the small amount of remaining monies were donated to the NRA. All it takes is ONE errant shot.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

A defensive position is a losing position.
rather than focus on countering his offense, launch one.
sue him for the cost of range renovations, lost dues, and all else you can think up till he folds his cards.

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it just needs more voltage

How high are the berms, and what are the range distances? If shooters place targets on the ground well in front of the berms, bullets can "skip" over the berm. Even with this States good range protection law, any bullets leaving a range can get you shut down.

Generally it is better to have stands with the targets elevated, right at base of berm. People miss low, just as much as they miss high.

Is the range locked up, or range master present?

Our range went through this, and we made a number of alterations and functional adjustments.

Tell that neighbor to "go pound sand" and keep shooting. He's trying to get you to "out spend" him. Then you'll be out of money.

The range had been there for years and houses grew up all around it, then having noise, etc. is a big deal. The ruling was in the club's favor, but they went ahead and made an amicable deal to move the range farther down the highway. I guess it will all happen again in 10 years or so.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Rifle range with houses in the line of fire is a hard sell.

Best best is to buy a mountain and to shoot into the side of it.

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Buy American
Vote Responsibly

Funny you should mention a pig farm. One of the best "little guy" wins I have seen involved a pig farmer in North Las Vegas and the developers who wanted him ousted. Speak to anyone deployed at Nellis and they'll tell you that some days your nose will present the evidence as to who won.

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Release the Kraken

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a Federal Range Protection law passed some years back? IIRC, it basicly said if the range was there first, newcomers have no right to gripe.

Please post a link to this law.

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Freedom isn't free.

Wish I could, but I only vaguely remember. Must have been 10 years ago or more. That's why I said correct me if I'm wrong.

When in the military, I was stationed at a very small base where explosive testing was carried out. The land is not too good for much else but it is close to water. A developer bought a large tract of land about 5 miles away from the base and started putting up homes. The base started getting calls from irate home owners about the noise, the shaking of walls, etc. We started investigating and discovered that the sales people for the development were only showing homes to potential customers on the weekend and NOT informing them of the military base nearby. Since the base worked on a Mon.-Fri. schedule, there were no explosive activities on the weekend. That changed as there now is a weekend demolition crew who come in and set off several pounds of explosives at random times on Sat. and Sun.

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Bill

Sometimes aren't any *good* solutions when there are a buncha whiney neighbors complaining to inherently antigun politicians.

One of my clubs has a self destruct clause in the by laws. If the Club ever reaches the point of not being able to shoot on property it owns , it will dissolve. Additional property about an hour away had been purchased with intent to build an additional facility that could become primary if the origional (1939) facility were forced to shut down. The new property got effectively block for becoming a shooting range and was eventually sold. In a key vote , the membership voted against trying to relocate 2.5hr away , and instead to fight to the death to defend the origional facility. Push came to shove , many years of legal fights , and major reconstruction of facilities.

We "won" in the sense that the Club exists , but with about 1/4 the shooting lanes , and maximum of half the previous distance , and dues more than quadrupled. A kinda phyric victory.

I don't know the situation with this Club in the OP , but I do know of other cases of antigun NIMBY-ists planting "stray bullets" in locations where it was not physically possable for them to have origionated from the ranges alledged.

For Clubs that wish to remain as gun clubs long term. :

Own your own ground. Anytime adjacent property comes on the market , buy it up to create a buffer zone. If you don't do it before you think it's needed , it will be priced out of your reach as comercial/ developement property at the critical juncture.

Or conversely get out of Dodge on your own terms. Once the urbanization trends are aparent , buy large property 45minutes to hour drive away forcurrent location while land there is still reasonable. It's a nice fantasy to have a gun club 100min from home, but unless you are in an economically depressed rural area with a rapidly shrinking population , close in Clubs are on borrowed time.

I have witnessed several incidents similar to this issue. There are seldom any winners in cases like this one. As a retired county land-use administrator, my advice would be for the club to hire an experienced land-use attorney, and do it now. Have the attorney petition for a postponement of any decision on the part of the county until he/she can sort the facts and make recommendations on the club's' part, based upon the existing conditional use permit language. If that doesn't work, challenge the county's actions in court, based upon the laws of the state governing land use.
Dave
SWCA #2778

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mr mom
Fire Chief, Retired