Iowa-Class Battleships

just an article on some obsolete boats from another era.

imo although they've been surpassed by other technologies i just can't wrap my mind around the idea that they're obsolete.

article with some great pics!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/i...23b3654ef8d4ddfa7372edbf20b0cb2&ei=63#image=7

ace22 said:

just an article on some obsolete boats from another era.

imo although they've been surpassed by other technologies i just can't wrap my mind around the idea that they're obsolete.

article with some great pics!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/i...23b3654ef8d4ddfa7372edbf20b0cb2&ei=63#image=7

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We took the super tour of the Missouri (Iowa Class) the last time we went to Hawaii. Just the two of us and the guide, we got along real well and as I made the statement to him that these 16'' guns were the ultimate in hand loading.

By that statement found out he was a serious gun person himself and he added a few places to the tour that were not on the normal itinerary.

Where the big guns came from...

"The milling machine business of the Cincinnati Screw & Tap Co. was formed into Cincinnati Milling Machine Co. in 1889 by Fred Holz, who subsequently sold out to Frederick A. Geier in 1905. The business was successful. In the mid-1920s they acquired the patents for centerless grinding and then worked with the Timken Company to perfect the technology. The resulting machinery allows Timken to produce automotive bearings that were both lower cost and higher precision than their predecessors."

"Frederick A. Geier died in 1934, and although Geier's son, Frederick V. Geier, was felt by some to be too young, he took charge and ran the company for the next quarter century. The younger Geier had a college education, considerable experience as a machinist, and had served in the military during World War I when he fixed production problems with 75 mm cannon. During a trip to Germany in the early 1930s Geier realized that another war was inevitable and upon his return he aggressively expanded his company's production capabilities (by 1939 they were the largest in the US), and when he realized that the then-future Allies would not be able to machine the barrels of big naval guns, he tooled up his factory to do just that. During the Second World War, all of the country's largest guns were machined by Cincinnati Milling Machine Co."

During WWII my dad was a machinist in the “Big Gun Shop” at the Washington Navy Yard…the building is now the Navy Museum and is fascinating to tour.

My dad worked on breech mechanisms. While I cannot say definitively since he’s not here to ask…it wouldn’t surprise me if the breech mechanisms on all or most of the 16” guns for the North Carolina, South Dakota and Iowa classes had all been worked on by him.

One of the more interesting bits with the internet is when people bring up how obsolete the Iowa class is compared to newer vessels beyond possible speed when the discussion gets beyond video gamers having an opion. The various refits to Iowa class added modern electronics, helicopters, drones, CIWS, various missiles like tomahawk and harpoon so the vessel is armed well to attack most anything tasked with, and then what weapon will you hit it with? Then people will debate what bomb, or missiles to use. The issue then comes up that so much of what is modern ordnance to drop or fire was designed long after heavily armored ships were in use and how much structural and sea worthiness integrity damage would be done and how much deep penetrating, and destruction of very hard targets ammunition would be available to use? It can be interesting with the serious analysis that some give. Example what if you hit Iowa with a dozen harpoon missiles, probably plenty of casualties and externally a fair bit of destruction but a ship that still is not in any real danger of sinking, still capable of knockout punches from guns and missiles especially after damage control does their work on getting the ship back into action.

kmyers said:

One of the more interesting bits with the internet is when people bring up how obsolete the Iowa class is compared to newer vessels beyond possible speed when the discussion gets beyond video gamers having an opion. The various refits to Iowa class added modern electronics, helicopters, drones, CIWS, various missiles like tomahawk and harpoon so the vessel is armed well to attack most anything tasked with, and then what weapon will you hit it with? Then people will debate what bomb, or missiles to use. The issue then comes up that so much of what is modern ordnance to drop or fire was designed long after heavily armored ships were in use and how much structural and sea worthiness integrity damage would be done and how much deep penetrating, and destruction of very hard targets ammunition would be available to use? It can be interesting with the serious analysis that some give. Example what if you hit Iowa with a dozen harpoon missiles, probably plenty of casualties and externally a fair bit of destruction but a ship that still is not in any real danger of sinking, still capable of knockout punches from guns and missiles especially after damage control does their work on getting the ship back into action.

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I suspect modern attack subs have the tools to poke a leaking hole in a WWII era battleship, and can poke those holes fired from longer distances with better accuracy.

While it's fun to take a nostalgia trip thinking about the Iowa class being combat useful, the reality is that they've been sitting in salt water for 80 years and would require rebuilding at an astronomical cost.

ace22 said:

just an article on some obsolete boats from another era.

imo although they've been surpassed by other technologies i just can't wrap my mind around the idea that they're obsolete.

article with some great pics!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/i...23b3654ef8d4ddfa7372edbf20b0cb2&ei=63#image=7

Click to expand...

I feel the same about the SR71, F111, etc.

I suspect it is less about any concern that it is incapable of fulfilling a mission or its survivability, but that there are more modern alternatives that are less expensive.

CH4 said:

I feel the same about the SR71, F111, etc.

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The SR71 was retired due to cost, not capability. Long after it was grounded the U2 continued to fly missions.

The rise of aviation doomed the big battleships.

"You Americans do not realize what formidable warships you have in these four battleships. We have concluded after careful analysis that these magnificent ships are in fact the most to be feared in your entire naval arsenal. When engaged in combat we could throw everything we have at those ships and all our firepower would bounce off or be of little effect. Then when we are exhausted, we will detect you coming over the horizon and then you will sink us."...Admiral Gorshkov of the Soviet Navy

One factor that has to be taken into
consideration has to do with the size
of crews needed to operate the huge
vessels which now include aircraft
carriers.

While modern technologies may lessen
the need for crew size, they will still be
exceptionally high. And getting enough
sailors is not an easy thing these days.

Their "footprint" on the high seas is
so much larger, making them easier
to find as targets.

Not tomorrow or the several years after
but the aircraft carriers will also be
relegated to the ships' graveyards if
not already sunk in some war.

Just one successful attack/disaster on
one of our aircraft carriers for
instance in the Mideast waters will
dampen their aggressive use very
quickly.

Besides submarines, missile cruisers,
destroyers and frigates are the
present and future.

My wife aboard U.S.S. Wisconsin some years back. The scale of it sorta speaks for itself.

Visited the Missouri last April during our trip to Hawaii. Most impressive and we did not cover all the decks.

swsig said:

While it's fun to take a nostalgia trip thinking about the Iowa class being combat useful, the reality is that they've been sitting in salt water for 80 years and would require rebuilding at an astronomical cost.

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…and then there’s the turbines to consider.

Regarding the Gorshkov comment, recall that the Taffy 3 escorts in the Leyte Gulf fought off the Japanese by wrecking their superstructures with repeated hits from 5” and smaller weapons.

Wyo said:

My wife aboard U.S.S. Wisconsin some years back. The scale of it sorta speaks for itself.

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Not long after my son got stationed at Norfolk, I went up to visit him. He wanted to take me to the Naval Museum, and at the time, I didn’t realize the WisKy was moored there. I was ecstatic; I’d never been on a Battlewagon before, and an Iowa Class, no less!
We spent about three hours going through her, and even got lost a couple of times. Brought back a lot of memories of all my underway time, but on a much bigger scale.