Where is the accountability?

You can make me wait upwards of ten days to receive a purchased handgun yet you'll run a title change through like a loaf of bread at the checkout counter.

We're supposed to verify voters signatures but not on a home title change? There's no way to verify that the notary seal is valid? Maybe a background check on the person requesting the change?

Waiting to receive a handgun is nowhere near as "painful" as losing everything you own due to title theft.

No one ever killed someone with a counterfeit title.

Don't such things need to be handled by a notary?

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No baby we aint

That will depend on state laws. A title transfer via deed may be valid without notarization, but may also be subject to legal challenges more easily and for longer periods of time. Same with evidences of encumbrance such as mortgages.

Even when notarial acknowledgement is obtained all that amounts to is a legal presumption of authenticity in the acts documented. False identification, forgeries, and fraudulent acts occur with or without the involvement of notaries.

In the matter of title theft (subject of this thread) falsified documents (deeds or mortgage encumbrances) are filed for public record. Overturning such a public record requires action in court to cancel the purported acts and "quiet the title" of the subject property. These actions are civil matters, generally beyond the limited knowledge and abilities of the layman, so attorney fees and court costs are to be expected. The time required to accomplish these actions may be months, perhaps a few years, and during that period there will remain a "cloud on title" that can seriously inconvenience the legitimate owners, estates, rightful heirs, or other persons of interest (such as earlier lien holders via mortgage, etc).

Like many other matters of law, there is no direct connection between criminal acts and civil torts, and there is no public official designated to advocate for the victims of civil torts. Even when a crime is proven and the perpetrators are prosecuted, there remains the necessity of undoing the civil damages involved. Conviction in criminal court is usually not even allowed in evidence in a civil lawsuit; the burden of proof is always on the plaintiff (in such cases the victim of the crime).

Home title insurance is just that, an insurance policy offered by a company that offers to step in and cover the costs of repairing the financial injuries suffered by the insured victim. I would expect that the companies and policies are under the supervision of each state's regulatory agencies like any other insurance plan.

Before purchasing such a policy my first step would be to discuss the matter with my homeowners insurance company and see if I might already have such coverage under a broad-form HO policy.

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Life of the party until 8:00PM

It's an unusual, rare crime.

Thankfully, despite some scare-tactic media coverage you might have seen, title theft is fairly rare. Scammers are most likely to target a property that meets these three conditions:

The property is paid off, with no existing mortgage or liens
The property is vacant and not closely monitored
The property is owned by someone vulnerable, elderly or otherwise compromised
Even for properties at risk, this crime is difficult to pull off due largely to its complexity. Most localities require witnesses to a title transfer, and even then, more fraudulent documentation would be needed to fool a title company and lender and make it all the way to closing.

How to protect yourself from title theft
Keeping on top of property records, bills and incoming mail can help homeowners reduce their risk of being targeted for this crime. In addition, reviewing your county records and personal credit history routinely can help protect you from identity theft overall. You can get your hands on a free copy of your credit report once each year through AnnualCreditReport.com, and monitor your credit score with any of the three major credit bureaus (Equifax, Experian and TransUnion).

Many standard title insurance policies — a typical cost incurred at closings — also provide a measure of protection against fraudulent activity. Home Title Theft: How To Protect Yourself | Bankrate

Fraud through impersonation/forgery has been a long standing issue in the title insurance /settlement industry. I'm talking about going back 40+ years, and title insurance companies have ended up paying out for claims, usually from cheating husbands who get their paramour to impersonate his wife at settlement. When I was working in the business in Maryland, procedures were established that required the production of picture IDs at settlements. Our title insurance underwriter issued guidance for situations that looked just unusual enough to require some additional inquiry.

But of course, all of these procedures are carried out by human beings, who cannot be expected to be handwriting experts. Happily when I was doing title insurance claim work I never came across a claim caused by fraud through impersonation and/or forgery.

When I retired I destroyed my notary stamps so that nobody could ever use them if they got stolen. I haven't figured out how to destroy my old squeezer seals but they are now way past the expiration date of my commissions.

I have handled several property title transfers by myself. The deed transfers in Texas do require notarization, but I never had anything notarized that the notary did not require me to show a picture ID. The notary at my bank knows me very well, but he still makes me show him my drivers license every time I need to sign something. But of course there could always be phony notaries. I have always thought that the title insurance policy protected the lender, not the property owner.

Poor analogy and bewildering attitude.

My take on the all the new services offering protection against this (as has already been observed) 'rare' crime is that they are educating slime who would steal from their own mothers on a new way to screw people. Lowlifes that would have never had an idea about it before. These days it's easy to imagine there are plenty of college educated lowlifes to whom tax fraud, insurance fraud, title theft, stock swindles and on and on are more attractive than working for a living. We see it every day in the news.

Imagine being retired, on a fixed income, barely scraping by with no family left to speak of and finding out your home, as in about the only thing you have in life, has been tied up like this and has multiple mortgages on it. If that wouldn't come close to 'killing' some one . . .

Got a friend who runs a a fraud investigation unit for a major insurance company and the stories and situations I hear about would curl hair. Yeah, plenty of them would be laughable if not so serious at the idiocy of what some folks try, but some are indeed chilling in the depths of depravity a crooked and perverse mind can reach in regard to what they will inflict on others.

The advertising is designed to panic people and separate gullible fearful folks from their money by convincing them this is a major problem. Which probably isn't. But lightning does strike folks occasionally and people have been known to be hit by meteorites.


/\/\/\/\/\ THIS thankfully puts it into perspective. As I said, people are being conned out of more money being sold the insurance than are having their titles stolen . . . yet it does happen.

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Qui plantavit curabit

Smith County, Texas County Clerk offers a free service whereby they will contact you if there is any activity regarding the title to your property.

Sent from my SM-G781U1 using Tapatalk

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Regards,
Bruce

I've noticed lately that the notary stamp is no longer a metal widget that embosses the paper. Just a plain old ink stamp.

Raised/embossed seals don't copy well.

That's why back in the olden days we had to pencil rub the embossed notary seal.

IMHO been more problems with people getting home equity loans on properties they don't own because the lenders aren't exercising due diligence.

I haven’t seen an embossing seal used for a very long time, just rubber stamps. Somewhere I still have my old PE embossing seal, never needed to use it.

Mortgage Companies usually - normally check ownership before they make a move.
I do too! My SIL is a Title Examiner and I can get property info pretty quick.
And don’t forget them liens.
Lots of times folks ‘forget’ to mention them.

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

I don't know of anyone who knows of anyone who has had their title stolen.

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213th FBINA

Considering your connections with NV that’s pretty amazing. Clark County has always scamsville.

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Release the Kraken

Perhaps it's because I don't know many folks in Nevada. I need to do other things besides gun shows and gun stores.

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213th FBINA

Here in NM there are many stories of Real Estate scams.
Usually involving vacant land.
Wild deeds, fake deeds, land division by Metes and Bounds, no Survey.
I’m standing in a Small Motel in Jemez Springs, NM.
The owner, Super Dude in every way is showing me an ‘antique’ newly decorated room.
Then he starts talking about a rear boundary problem. I look out the window and see the Jemez River about 100 feet away. And a hedge row about 30 feet away. Is that it? But he says the line is about here and makes a movement across the inside of the room.
I go crazy and yell get a Surveyor up here! The seller says they’ll sign, get a survey!
Yankee Boy from one of those Mass Whaling towns who got lost in the Desert.
Retired Coast Guard, was Sailing Master of CG Training Ship.
Held Unlimited Sail ship Masters Papers.

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

If someone steals your car the police will arrest the culprit.
If someone steals your house---it is a civil matter.

Bah Humbug

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Paul
Salome, AZ

I have a somewhat crazy deed story. The 2.5 acre lot next to my cabin went up for sale. Last I checked it was owned by a father and son in Georgia. I sent them letters a couple times asking if they’d be interested in selling and never heard back. I ended up buying it from a local couple that received it through an estate. From the date of them accepting offer to closing was 13 1/2 months. The county line went through middle of property. My attorney told me they had clean title to one property but not the other. It was messed up by estate transaction. He assured me it could be straightened out but it would take time and money. He had to walk the sellers big city attorney through the process. The fees accumulated so much that the sellers had to write a check for $12 to close the deal. They’d have been better off letting the county take it for tax auction.

For all of Illinois' faults, at least here we can hold property in a land trust. Makes it very hard for 3rd parties to mess with the title as only the trustee knows the beneficiary.

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SWCA #3356, SWHF#611

Back in my banking days, I ran across a situation in which a developer built a small housing development near Laredo TX on a piece of property he didn’t own. How that happened defied all logic.I don’t know how or if it was resolved but Laredo was a place where incredible events were an everyday occurrence.