I read some interesting information today about execution in Japan. On average, there are only about five per year. There are numerous crimes considered as capital offenses under Japanese law, but nearly all executions (by hanging) are of those who have committed aggravated homicide.The interesting thing is that prisoners are not told in advance the date of their hanging, and learn it only on the morning of their execution, usually one to two hours prior. The reason for that is to prevent the condemned prisoners from first committing suicide. It was stated that popular support in Japan for the death penalty is very high.

Sucks to be them. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

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No baby we aint

we definitely need to be extremely careful investigating capital crimes, too many are re-tried or sentences commutes due to poor work by investigators, prosecutors or judges! One thing I have wished for is for the "system" being allowed to accept volunteers for the firing squad when it was still the primary method of execution of a death sentence!

I had one case specifically that I wished I could volunteer. I was the initial officer on a robbery-homicide in a bar. The victim had been totally compliant to the point of laying on his back on the floor behind the bar. While laying there the perpetrator shot him in the face with a .44 Magnum. The victim had been a Special Forces "A Team" member with the detective who had the follow-up investigation! Perp. had an extensive criminal history!

The perp. was found guilty and sentenced to death, and sentence was finally executed, but I sure wished I could have been in on it!.

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Gunsmithing since 1961

Studies have made of the cases in which a criminal has been executed that the recidivism rate is less than 5%...Much less......Ben

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Cogito, ergo BOOM!...

#6 this year is scheduled for October in Florida for crimes committed June of '96.
I wonder about how long the time between sentencing to execution in Japan?

Great deterrent. Recidivism rate for executed criminals is running at zero percent.

I am personally not a fan of capital punishment and it's not so much philosophical but practical. Sentencing someone to death generally results in automatic appeals and the cost of maintaining someone on death row far exceeds the general prison population on an individual basis. A death sentence cost tax-payers more than it's worth. And then there is the always present possibility that we've made a mistake. Pretty easy to show someone from their cell to the door; more difficult to correct a lethal injection. Credible research indicates the death penalty is not a deterrent so it's relegated to revenge in my book.

How about a life sentence that actually means life and no parole? Check out the daily routine of an inmate at a maximum security prison; many might prefer death. I also embrace something that's likely never coming back and that's life at hard labor. Making little rocks out of big rocks all day allows time for reflection. At any rate the punishment for a capital offense should be severe but reversible. My non-educated two-cents.

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Ordnung muss sein
SWHF #789

I would be in favor of the death penalty - but only when we can guarantee that it is only applied to the guilty - in Texas we pride ourselves on our "drive through execution lane" (Rob White's phrase) in Huntsville, but that really too often railroads non-English speakers and the under-funded to death. We have no public defender's office in Houston, those who cannot afford an attorney have their attorney picked by the judge (with a wink). That attorney more often than not has a lot more lucrative cases to work on at the same time. Appeals are complicated if errors are not picked up, or even looked for in the initial trial proceedings. Due process is in the Constitution for a reason, and it is not always met. Not sure what that has to do with execution in Japan, but my two cents.

For a lot of reasons, I don’t think the state should be in the business of executing criminals. On the other hand, there are a lot of people who need killin’.

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Not in jail.

There are at present many DAs around he country who take the position that punishment for any crime is an outdated concept.

I have always felt that anyone convicted on false evidence by LEO, DA's
officers or judges and this later is found a wrongful conviction, then the sentence should be served by those who provided the false evidence or
allowed it in court. This would apply to all cases, fron traffic violations
to murder.
I will bet this would cut down on wrongful convictions by a huge percentage.

It is off topic to add, but I will do so anyway, basically supporting HoustonRick. I used to be a determined supporter of the death penalty. After one very brief, minor view of the “justice system” in action, if I were called to be a potential juror in such a case, I would be extremely hesitant to serve. What I saw did not impress me. At all.

I’m a little surprised Japan allows the death penalty. I was not aware of that.

Murderers seem to have no qualms about administering the death penalty to their innocent victims so why should society be so reluctant to do likewise with them?

Mainly because society as a whole is a LOT superior morally than these killers. In Louisiana life means life-you will die at Angola. Unlike the person sentenced t death, you will no longer be the center of attention, will not have Sister Whatever at your side, you will not have throngs of people supporting your cause while the victim and their family forgotten. You will not have a phaylanx of lawyers paid for by foundations to rally your cause, you will not get to be interviewed by 60 minutes on the unfairness of it all. No, you will be locked away to rot in jail, dying a little bit each say, with those on the outside who knew you gradually drift away and forget you. Your family and friends will die off and soon there will be nobody on the outside save some friend or distant relative that even knows who you are.You will age quickly, will work in the fields and nobody will give a **** about you. This will go on each day with you slowly dying both physically and mentally. You will have no hope, despair will overtake your life. And then one day you will finally die in the prison hospice swaddled in your diaper and that will be it. There will be nobody left to claim your corpse so you will be buried in a grave behind the dog kennels. Any belongings, old pictures of your momma, rosary, bible will either be be thrown out or given to some other inmate. You will just bwe one less thing to worry about. And that will be that.

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Forum consigliere

I respect your opinion as you are an attorney but I think the flaw in your logic is very common among the morally superior masses. Sociopaths really are different and don't have the personality traits people assume they have. Many of them do not rot slowly in jail dying mentally and physically. They prey on the weak, brag about their crimes looking for and gaining status among the other inmates. Many thrive in prison and enjoy longer lives that they would have lived in society. Being locked up does not cause them to grow a conscience and feel remorse. The only real punishment is death. Anything less is not punishment. The US needs to overhaul the death penalty to make it certain and swift.

In medieval Japan the worst crime you could commit was arson. Largely because all buildings were constructed out of paper and wood. If you were convicted of arson your entire bloodline, both sides were erased. In their Shinto faith, the Japanese people revere their ancestors. All headstones with any mention of your family, both sides would be erased, all living members of your family, both sides would be executed along with you being last.
It was thought that even with those strict guidelines it would end the crime of arson, not so...reduction for sure but not total elimination.

I went back and reread my post and nowhere is there any mention of remorse. Even sociopaths experience the feelings I wrote of. Remorse has nothing to do with it. They'd rather be out of prison than in and sociopaths crave being the center of attention-is gives then validity. You want to punish a sociopath? Send then to Florence. Or Angola. For life.

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Forum consigliere

One poster here is right, and one is wrong.

Can you figure out which is which?

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Formerly Model520Fan

Because... How do you start a flood?

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Not in jail.

I support the death sentence. I do not support the endless wait for it to be carried out. IF I knew for sure that a "life without possibility of parole" was indeed that, that would be my first choice, but the victim or victim's family should have last say, and even participate if desired. The noted expenses and "benefits" that death row people incur is the fault of the system only, and should be easily corrected. Actually, calling it revenge is OK as long as the end result is the same.

I don’t remember if I picked these up in my days as a criminal justice planner, or from my first wife, who was a correctional administrator:

Incapacitation, deterrence, retribution, rehabilitation

I remember where I got these:

“What are the four categories of undesirable behavior?
Immoral behavior, antisocial behavior, illegal behavior, and sin”.

-Sir Leon Radzinovich

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Not in jail.

In my opinion, prison, including the death penalty, should be punishment,,not rehabilitation. Prisoners are not like the mainstream. They are a different breed.

I believe the rate of those successfully reintegrated into society when it is later found they were railroaded into the death chamber is similarly low.

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Release the Kraken

Sorry but this is apples and oranges. One refers to deterrence prior to the crime and one refers to after and the likelihood of reoccurrence.

Bryan

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Ordnung muss sein
SWHF #789

Way back in the 70s, studies found that 99% of inmates were repeat offenders. Same study also found that 99% of first time offenders that went to prison, never returned to prison. They got their priorities straight.

In this country, the death penalty is not a deterrent. Most of the incarcerations are misapplied to folks who should not be incarcerated. It is sad, this once great nation thinks that warehousing people is a good thing.

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

Exactly...Rehabilitation takes place in the mind of the individual...Prison and the ultimate penalty are neither one intended for transformation of evil into good...They are punishment for wrongful deeds already committed......Ben

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Cogito, ergo BOOM!...

Broken people mean broken systems. The biggest flaw with our current justice system is that it is run by flawed people.

I would be in favor of the death penalty except for one thing The process has been terribly abused, especially in cases where defendants were poor and couldn't afford adequate representation.

A big improvement would be to require a minimum of two eye witnesses as well as the same punishment for perjurers once their lies were uncovered. These protections were given in the Mosaic law.

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Only a cold warrior

Remember when Edith Bunker said she was in favor of Capital Punishment, “As long as it isn’t too severe.”?

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Georgia On My Mind

Wouldn't that be an incentive to leave no witnesses behind?......Ben

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Cogito, ergo BOOM!...

No, one ignores deterrence of the original offender (after the offense) and one doesn't.

Google Jack Henry Abbott, inter alia.

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Formerly Model520Fan

I like the idea of a death penalty.
The problem is with the bureaucracy that is supposed to see to it that the sentence is carried out in a timely manner.

Not the bureaucracy but that pesky little constitution and the bill of rights-you know the one, it has the 2nd amendment in there as well, right before the 4th 5th 6th 8th and 14th amendments.

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Forum consigliere

There are two types of deterrence. General and Specific. General deterrence refers to deterring others/society from committing a crime by the threat of punishment. Specific deterrence refers to deterring the person/people who committed the crime.

General deterrence requires a punishment that is swift and severe and certain.

Capital punishment is severe, but it is not swift and certainly not certain so its general deterrence ability is questionable. As to specific deterrence, Capital punishment is 100% effective as a person executed will not commit another murder.

I am for capital punishment in theory, but against it in practice, as a person stands a better chance of being struck by lightning than being executed for murder. Whether society benefits from capital punishment is up for debate. The only group that potentially benefits is the appeals attorneys.

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Bill

I think many of us miss an important aspect of life sentences or death. Deterrence is one thing, but the other is to protect us. Locking them up or killing them keeps them and their criminal activities out of our lives. If not the death penalty, then put them in a cage and weld it shut. CAJUNLAWYER covered it very well:

Due process and constitutional adherence are imperative, but justice must be swift, severe and decisive.

Our legislature in NM flushed the death penalty in 2009. Homicide rates dropped, and remain lower than 2009. https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/weba...me/crime-trend

Correlation vs Causation

Correlation does not equal causation. Correlation is a measurement of the strength and direction of the relationship between two or more variables, here eliminating the death penalty and murder rate. Causation indicates a similar but different relationship between variables, namely that one variable produces an effect on another variable or causes it. Just because the murder rate declines after the death penalty is eliminated is correlated, but not necessarily the cause of the decline. There are many other variables at play here.

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Bill

I don't know what studies you're talking about, but if they were accurate at the time I doubt they are now. My observation has been that with the current system, offenders are not sentenced to prison until they have offended repeatedly. The point being that with very rare exceptions there just aren't any first time offenders in prison. Verging on NONE.

Who's being incarcerated that shouldn't be? Yes, most of the crimes are committed by people with substance abuse problems. But what else are you going to do with them. Drug treatment doesn't work all that well even with ones that want it. Most of them chose and will continue to choose their lifestyle. Treatment programs have no chance of success with them.

I volunteer in a maximum security prison. I have good relationships with the men I work with. Most I deal with express regret and remorse for their actions that got them there. Many of the guys I work with have an L (life sentence), some multiple life sentences. A minority are getting out soon. Most of those have been in for many years.

Many of these men know the Bible far better than I do. I have great respect for their faith. I also know that they have serious addiction issues and their past history indicates that despite their best intentions and apparent strong faith, many will fall and end up back in prison if not dead first. And these are the cream of the crop in prison. These are the ones that regret their criminal behavior. They are Not like the majority of residents that are doing drugs and are gang members in prison.

I wish these guys the best and pray for their success and consider them brothers in Christ. However, many of them are better off in prison (a really terrible place) than out in society. I know in the the longer term, I don't want them running loose around my friends and family. Some I don't want to get out but celebrate the light they shine in prison and the positive influence they make on the general atmosphere in the prisons. Their life is not without value.

Don't get me wrong. We do have some major successes. Some of our best volunteers and even leaders in full time positions helping men both in and out of prison are former inmates. Some having served many years, some having wasted (largely) most of a lifetime in prisons. These are great men. But they freely acknowledge the dismal recidivism rate even with those that leave prison with the strongest faith and best intentions.

It seems many with addiction histories are just one slip or fall away from going down the same path that put them in prison. Lets face it, we all slip or fall in this life. We pick ourselves up, often with help, and get back on track. With many of these guys with addiction issues, that slip is catastrophic.

So yeah, until we get some control of the drug problem, which is the root issue with the vast majority of these guys, warehousing is a viable solution.

Personally I think the death penalty is appropriate for some. And it should be carried out in a timely manner so that it will provide a deterrence. Some guy getting executed that no one from the neighborhood remembers isn't much of a deterrence.

But it sure needs to be JUSTICE. I've personally observed some dishonest prosecutors, one of which lost his license. I also know some defense attorneys that are calloused and no longer have the right compassion or mindset to assure justice for their clients. Plus, if you get a public defender, the accused may find himself in a world of hurt. When even the best intentioned public defenders have a client load of a hundred or more cases, many public defenders just don't have the time to truly know the accused except for their brief interactions when seeing their clients. They have to rely on what investigators find and witness testimony.

After all that rambling, I don't know the answer. But putting or leaving unrepentant and unreformed on the street doesn't work.

Who cares where they’d rather be. If they’re dead what they prefer no longer matters, nor do we have to pay for their room, board, medical expenses or attorney fees. If you want to punish murderer, etc., erase them. Defense attorneys want to keep them alive because dead guys don’t need their services.

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213th FBINA

I really like the idea of eraser, don't publish their pictures all over the news media. I also appreciate the idea of letting them quite literally "rot in jail".
I had a friend years ago that worked as a guard at McNeil Island Penitentiary in Washington State. He's a fat guy and I asked about health requirements being a guard. He said "Its the food." I asked him what about the food, his reply was that the food they serve in McNeil Island is better than the old school lunch program or any food he ever was served while in the Air Force. Now I've eaten on an Airbase or two and had an award winning mess hall while stationed in Germany, if food is better than that there is something wrong with that system. Beans and Rice is a complete meal...
Lets also be aware of the free medical while in prison, not to mention dialysis, etc. I'm not in favor of "prison for profit" or privatized prison but in many ways I believe prisoners are spoiled.
That friend of mine told me that if he ever found himself destitute and down on his luck at an advanced age he would simply attempt an armed robbery of a federally insured bank, Bingo...

I am for the death penalty. When everyone is 100% positive it is the right guy.

But, then I also believe in a point system. Every crime is worth X number of points. Reach 100 points and you forfeit your life.
Murder 50
Attempted murder 40
Armed robbery 40
Rape 30
Kidnapping 30
Assault with a weapon 20 points
Assault 10
Felony theft 10 points
Belonging to either major political party 100 points

No stacking or combining crimes during a single act for more points. The worst crime that day is what they get for points. Rob a bank and kill a guard. Points for murder. Next day steal a car. Car theft points.

Got a link to that study?

Japan is another country just like every other nation on Earth. They do things differently there.

Law enforcement in Japan while it does the same job as here, there are noticable and significant differences...differences that would get the police sued and and put in prison here.

Their justice system is different...and it works brilliantly for them. Their society...as most societies on Earth, are not used to the same level of "freedom" and "rights" we have here and are either limited in those freddoms and rights if they have them at all. So any debate in that regard is apples and oranges.

No system is perfect and never will be, but ours right now is in an utter state of chaos which all of us already are fully aware of when we turn on the TV every night.

I wished I could say a lot of the bad guys I dealt with were deterred by prison...most are not. Many have family and friends in prison and really don't seem to mind it or really care about going back..."three hots and a cot".

Then there were "the others". Ones you knew had only two roads in their life; the penetentiary or the cemetery. These people were beyond redemption or rehabilitation. Looking into their eyes was like looking into an abyss. To me, these are the type that capital punishment (not life in prison) was designed specifically for. Notable examples: Charles Manson, Albert Fish, Jeffrey Dahmer, the list goes on. For everyone of the names I just mentioned, there are hundreds more.

A lot of these types of people come up for parole to be released back into society...some get it. Some go back to old habits as soon as they get it. In Japan, there isn't that problem.

You might want to read some of the articles I've read over the years about death row in Japan...it isn't death row here which is a five star hotel by comparison. If you are to meet the hangman there, they don't sugar coat it and treat you as little more that subhuman dirt. Such knowledge gets out into their society and has a deterrent value all its own.

Sorry for the long, drawn out "War and Peace" here.

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The Last Standing Knight

When the UK had capital punishment, the Judge effectively stated that you had "three clear Sundays" then the following Monday would be the execution date. The last Official Hangman, Albert Pierpointe had it to a fine art. 12 seconds from their cell to the dropping of the trapdoor, and death was effectively instantaneous as the neck was broken in the drop. He owned a pub in London and when I was a grad student I had a beer or two there. Dave_n

Japan is 6500 miles outside my lane.

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Music/Sports/Beer fan

It was in a Criminal Justice textbook. Possibly the only thing I remember from the book.

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

Definitely a topic that is dividing the membership!

Sadly, our society is in the process of either excusing criminal behavior or deflecting who is responsible for the exhibited behavior.

Please remember that the current liberal trend is to excuse criminal behavior while outlawing self-defense! Definitely, we are witnessing a perversion of our legal system and it's tennents!

How many here could be comfortable with the potential punishment of death because you successfully defended yourself or loved ones? Sadly, this is a distinct possibility with how our society is perverting the concept of justice.

Personally, I support the concept of an eye-for-an-eye! I also believe that a person that commits the crime of premeditated murder should die in the same manner as their victim, except slower! Yes, this could be viewed as cruel and unusual punishment, but did anyone stand up for the deceased before their life was shortened?

In answer to my question about the possibility of being executed for successfully defending myself or a loved one ... I wouldn't want to willfully live in a society that rewards the guilty while punishing those that cherish life!

Honestly, I think Japan is following a reasonable policy towards the implementation of capital punishment.

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Judge control not gun control!

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Music/Sports/Beer fan

On December 31, 1984, almost 39 years ago, Det. Sgt. Jackie Sherrill was shot and killed by a 48 year old man she believed was molesting his grandchildren. She had built a case on him and as she and other officers attempted to arrest him he managed to get one of their model 686's and shoot her through the heart. I was the patrol captain at the time and arrived on the scene about two minutes after she was killed. One of the three officers with her was putting the killer in the cruiser cage as I pulled up. The other officers, soon joined by paramedics, were giving her medical aid. When I saw what had happened I told the officer who was with the prisoner to get him out of there. I didn't want to lose it and do something when I knew I had to go pick my kids up. I won't go into the sadness that immediately started when I realized the mother of my three year old daughter and nine month old son was dead. The killer was a frequent flyer and a convicted sex offender who had been in and out of jail all of his adult life. I found out later he said some pretty nasty things about her right after they subdued him. He had no remorse then or later at his trial. He was found guilty and sentenced to death. His case was appealed to the Mississippi State Supreme Court and sent back to the Circuit Court for re-sentencing. He was then sentenced to life in prison. Had he lived long enough he could have possibly got out on parole. The reasoning of the State Supreme Court was that he was sentenced for killing a police officer and it was doubtful he knew she was an officer because she was in plain clothes. She was wearing a gun and a badge and he knew her because of a previous incident. The three officers with her were all in uniform. The DA trying the case failed to get this info on the record. My first thought when I heard this was it is now open season on any plainclothes officer. The killer died in prison 18 years later. No one contacted me and told me about it. I found out he was dead from one of his relatives ( a very nice person) a few months after he died. I called the state prison and asked why the victim's family had not been notified. The answer I got from the woman at the prison was "we don't got to tell you nuthing". I helped a friend get elected to the State Senate and he pushed a bill through where now they do have to tell us "nuthing". I was hoping the death sentence would hold but never imagined it would end up like it did. My family and I have been living with this for almost four decades. My children didn't have their mother growing up, she never saw her beautiful grandchildren and the things they have accomplished, and they never got to meet her. I wonder every day what it would have been like had she lived. The killer died in prison after 18 years, probably much sooner than if he had waited for that death sentence to be carried out. He spent most of his time in a small cell with a concrete slab for a mattress because he was a troublemaker. His family refused to claim his body and he is buried on the prison grounds. I am firmly convinced that the legal system cares more about the offenders than the victims.

If you mean the legal process in Japan operates on the "We arrested you, so you must be guilty. Now confess" principle, I agree. They start there, and should you not confess, stuff goes downhill pretty sharpish. The comments made by Carlos Ghosn of Nissan fame on his treatment by the Japanese authorities make interesting reading. I seem to recall an interview about it either by AP or BBC news.

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Release the Kraken

That's the point. The existence of either capital punishment or life imprisonment as possibilities do not prevent that first incident of murder, although proper implementation of either can prevent a second.