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03-10-2024, 10:40 AM
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Congress is all about rewriting laws to fit their agenda. Maybe they can rewrite the laws of physics so that those LiIo batteries will work. Once the EV, solar, wind mill money train runs it's course, hydrogen combustion might get a chance and they might start re engineering nuclear power. It will be a long time, if ever, before cold fusion gets to a point where it doesn't take more power to make it happen than it produces. There are no free lunches so as long as we need to get from one point to another, there will be something left behind.
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03-10-2024, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldengineer
Anyone out there that can speak to development of Ultracapacitors vs Batteries?
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the "bucket" doesn't matter much.
Power out = power in - losses due to heat.
The best "bucket" on the horizon is the solid state battery.
We still have to cram power into it, but it's projected life cycle is to the tune of 70 years, all of its rated capacity can be utilized, and it can sustain physical damage and still work.
Legend has it, early prototypes were used in a drone that had the performance to evade and walk away from a police helicopter.
Where these caps tend to be low voltage devices, which eliminates them from practical consideration, they may be useful within the system to fortify the rails under demand spikes if we come into voltage ratings high enough to be useful.
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it just needs more voltage
Last edited by venomballistics; 03-10-2024 at 11:01 AM.
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03-10-2024, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaworski
I like the idea of hybrids. No range issues. Battery packs aren't too expensive. My daughter's 2005 Prius gets 35 mpg around Pittsburgh. My 02 Volvo gets 17.
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As long as the gas motor isn't a wimpy 4 pot, or even worse a 3. Most hybrids are gutless econoboxes with no thought given to performance.
The Porsche 918 is the way to do a hybrid!
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03-10-2024, 02:51 PM
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Hydrogen is the answer. No one is asking that question though, except Toyota. And, of course, our legislators don't want Anything out there that they can't fully control. They can turn your electricity off any time they want.
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03-10-2024, 03:05 PM
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Hydrogen fuel cells and even using hydrogen itself as fuel are practical but the main problem lies in getting the energy required to produce the hydrogen. There are several methods, but as always, the laws of thermodynamics say you can never get something for nothing.
Last edited by DWalt; 03-10-2024 at 03:19 PM.
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03-10-2024, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt
Hydrogen fuel cells and even using hydrogen itself as fuel are practical but the main problem lies in getting the energy required to produce the hydrogen. There are several methods, but as always, the laws of thermodynamics say you can never get something for nothing.
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Same can be said about methanol from CO2.
a far more universally useful product but still faces the same gluttonous power appetite.
That's where most every concept seems to meet it's demise. The energy one must put into it.
If this could be set aside, there's some interesting discussion to be had
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it just needs more voltage
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03-10-2024, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johngalt
As long as the gas motor isn't a wimpy 4 pot, or even worse a 3. Most hybrids are gutless econoboxes with no thought given to performance.
The Porsche 918 is the way to do a hybrid!
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before that, there was the Audi R28 that dominated LeMans.
Porsche and McLaren (P1) jumped in thereafter.
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03-10-2024, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venomballistics
before that, there was the Audi R28 that dominated LeMans.
Porsche and McLaren (P1) jumped in thereafter.
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Ferrari makes one too.
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03-10-2024, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johngalt
Ferrari makes one too.
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yeah ... where cost is no object, they seem to have found some advantages to be had in the hybrid shell game.
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03-10-2024, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venomballistics
yeah ... where cost is no object, they seem to have found some advantages to be had in the hybrid shell game.
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I forgot about the Corvette E-Ray. A bargain compared to its European rivals!
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03-10-2024, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johngalt
I forgot about the Corvette E-Ray. A bargain compared to its European rivals!
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Yes, but still pretty steep for an audience that has a thread about fast food prices
None the less, these examples are a good crucible to find the useful nooks and crannies of the hybrid shell game. Certainly better than the minimalist approach of earlier offerings like the Prius and insight.
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03-13-2024, 08:02 AM
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EV euphoria is dead. Automakers trumpet consumer choice in U.S.
“For years, the automotive industry has been in a state of EV euphoria. Automakers trotted out optimistic sales forecasts for electric models and announced ambitious targets for EV growth. Wall Street boosted valuations for legacy automakers and startup entrants alike, based in part on their visions for an EV future.
Now the hype is dwindling, and companies are again cheering consumer choice. Automakers from Ford Motor
and General Motors
to Mercedes-Benz
, Volkswagen
, Jaguar Land Rover and Aston Martin are scaling back or delaying their electric vehicle plans.“
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03-13-2024, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venomballistics
no real point anyhow as you still need to charge them whether they slide out easily or not.
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Exactly, you're on the road so you pull into a battery station. Ten minutes later, you're headed down the road with a fresh battery and the station charges your old one.
Blue Rhino for batteries.
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03-13-2024, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaworski
Exactly, you're on the road so you pull into a battery station. Ten minutes later, you're headed down the road with a fresh battery and the station charges your old one.
Blue Rhino for batteries.
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Which might work out for a tank.
A battery pack is a bit more involved in the power system.
a well abused pack will ruin a trip.
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03-13-2024, 06:29 PM
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A few weeks ago, an EV died on the bridge from New Albany Indiana to Louisville Ky. A semi being driven by a woman swerved in order to miss the stopped traffic. She was dangling off the bridge for an hour before LFD got her safely out of the tractor.
I re-read the article a week later, and the story was totally different. Why? Because an EV dying on the bridge isn’t good publicity for those trying to shove EVs down out throats. Government corruption, Front and Center.
Last edited by Yendor357; 03-13-2024 at 06:54 PM.
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03-16-2024, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yendor357
A few weeks ago, an EV died on the bridge from New Albany Indiana to Louisville Ky. A semi being driven by a woman swerved in order to miss the stopped traffic. She was dangling off the bridge for an hour before LFD got her safely out of the tractor.
I re-read the article a week later, and the story was totally different. Why? Because an EV dying on the bridge isn’t good publicity for those trying to shove EVs down out throats. Government corruption, Front and Center.
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Google loves things EV.
As such, I get a good look at these things in use.
Google uses computer parts be the truckload.
Thus a shag truck (EV) is required for the dock/trailer shell game. If it's cold, hot, rainy or snowy, they are out of commission.
Forklifts for unloading.
A factory service tech is on a first name basis with nearly everyone on site. He may as well clock in with the rest of the staff as his attendance record is better than some of the full time employees.
When I started, the executives and management dotted the parking lot with Teslas. I haven't seen one since July.
These things should not fail as hard as they do. but I cannot ignore it when it's choking on it's own vomit in front of my face.
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03-16-2024, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yendor357
A few weeks ago, an EV died on the bridge from New Albany Indiana to Louisville Ky. A semi being driven by a woman swerved in order to miss the stopped traffic. She was dangling off the bridge for an hour before LFD got her safely out of the tractor.
I re-read the article a week later, and the story was totally different. Why? Because an EV dying on the bridge isn’t good publicity for those trying to shove EVs down out throats. Government corruption, Front and Center.
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It certainly looks like a very good quality steel was used in the manufacture of that 5th wheel.
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03-16-2024, 12:06 PM
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Our next door neighbors are big EV fans and own two Chevy Volts. We've often discussed the pros and cons of a good high MPG gas engine car vs. his EV's. The big thing I've always stressed was the cost and frequency of battery packs, and how little these cars are worth once they get close to needing new batteries.
But last fall he discovered another "con" about owning an EV. I had just gotten up in the morning when I noticed flashing lights outside my house and opened the curtains to see fire trucks everywhere! I went back and got dressed, and went outside to see my neighbors standing in front of their house, and asked what happened? He said the neighbor behind him called to tell him his detached garage was on fire, and called 911 to get the firemen on their way. He had one of his cars plugged into the charger, but the car was outside the garage when the fire started. He unplugged it and moved it to the front, and then went into his home and shut off power to the garage electrical panel.
When the firemen got the fire out they looked over the damage and said it started in the corner where his charger was. Not much left of the charger to even identify it as a charger, other than he knew nothing else was in that corner.
The garage was a total loss along with the contents, but at least being detached it didn't hurt their house at all. But sure made me even more against EV cars.
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03-16-2024, 12:40 PM
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There is that as well.
the EV industry is not taking the engineering part of this as seriously as they should, and it shows.
Solid state batteries would avoid this issue. Yet they slow walk development.
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03-16-2024, 01:41 PM
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I think so.
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03-20-2024, 02:29 PM
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They may be foolin’ some, but they’re not foolin’ everyone.
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04-13-2024, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaworski
Exactly, you're on the road so you pull into a battery station. Ten minutes later, you're headed down the road with a fresh battery and the station charges your old one.
Blue Rhino for batteries.
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Except now each vehicle is going to require at least twice as much lithium which starts with more strip mines and more smelting using one of the dirtiest processes on the planet. The carbon footprint just keeps getting bigger and bigger. It sort of defeats the whole purpose.
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04-13-2024, 07:37 AM
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Recently saw that Ford is drastically cutting EV production as people are not buying them.
I observed that the local Mercedes dealer has an entire fleet of electric loaner vehicles. This is because they cannot sell them and they have to do something with them. They are also offering rebates and free charging to coax people to buy something that the general public does not want.
Maybe one day the government will understand you can lead a horse to water buy can't make him drink.
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04-13-2024, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WCCPHD
Recently saw that Ford is drastically cutting EV production as people are not buying them.
I observed that the local Mercedes dealer has an entire fleet of electric loaner vehicles. This is because they cannot sell them and they have to do something with them. They are also offering rebates and free charging to coax people to buy something that the general public does not want.
Maybe one day the government will understand you can lead a horse to water buy can't make him drink.
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It's difficult to peel back the details and figure out how this went as wrong as it did.
Battery technology inadequate and or slow walked.
Half hearted implementations.
Blindly charging forward without any hope of infrastructure support.....
You'd think something as utterly reliable as an electric motor turning a set of wheels wouldn't be this problematic
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04-13-2024, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venomballistics
It's difficult to peel back the details and figure out how this went as wrong as it did.
Battery technology inadequate and or slow walked.
Half hearted implementations.
Blindly charging forward without any hope of infrastructure support.....
You'd think something as utterly reliable as an electric motor turning a set of wheels wouldn't be this problematic
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It appears to me that these people who from birth think they are the smartest ones and have to help /force us to do the right thing discovered just how dumb they really are.-
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04-13-2024, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venomballistics
It's difficult to peel back the details and figure out how this went as wrong as it did.
Battery technology inadequate and or slow walked.
Half hearted implementations.
Blindly charging forward without any hope of infrastructure support.....
You'd think something as utterly reliable as an electric motor turning a set of wheels wouldn't be this problematic
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The Electric Vehicle debacle is exactly like gun control. Something pushed by the left (our smarter, omniscient betters) in their never ending effort to control those of us they hold in utter disdain. (i.e. those who think for themselves).
Like gun violence, climate change, for the children, and any number of other insanity, electric vehicles are just one more thing for their sheep to adopt and try to force down our throats.
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04-13-2024, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WCCPHD
The Electric Vehicle debacle is exactly like gun control. Something pushed by the left (our smarter, omniscient betters) in their never ending effort to control those of us they hold in utter disdain. (i.e. those who think for themselves).
Like gun violence, climate change, for the children, and any number of other insanity, electric vehicles are just one more thing for their sheep to adopt and try to force down our throats.
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No, I don't think it's nearly that complicated. It's as simple as the politicians have figured out how to make green money from green energy. It is all about people enriching themselves at our expense.
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04-15-2024, 09:51 AM
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04-15-2024, 10:41 AM
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Ever notice how the charging stations have no canopy over them?
Who wants to play with a "wet" charging station?
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04-15-2024, 11:16 AM
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A photo of the most recent developments in the EV industry
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04-15-2024, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemerguy53
Everything requires specialized tires...so there's nothing special about EVs in that regard.
There is another consideration as well: EVs weigh a lot more than conventional vehicles, and that affects everything from crashworthiness to parking garage construction...
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I've only learned about both of these concerns as of this year.
I disagree regarding the tires. Most HP tires, of whatever kind, are a choice. The EV tires are extra-reinforced for the car's weight, and get much less mileage(tread-life). All-in-all, further mitigating whatever savings you think you may be getting.
A garage, built decades ago, spec'd out for a 3500lb vehicle average per space. Now, fill it with 4500+ EV's on the aging concrete and super-structure. No-Bueno.
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04-15-2024, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WCCPHD
Recently saw that Ford is drastically cutting EV production as people are not buying them.
I observed that the local Mercedes dealer has an entire fleet of electric loaner vehicles. This is because they cannot sell them and they have to do something with them. They are also offering rebates and free charging to coax people to buy something that the general public does not want.
Maybe one day the government will understand you can lead a horse to water buy can't make him drink.
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I have a suspicion that Ford discovered that everyone who wanted an EV has already bought one.
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04-15-2024, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A10
A photo of the most recent developments in the EV industry
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At one time in the early 20th Century, electric cars were fairly popular, especially so among city women who didn't need to drive long distances. They didn't need hand cranking to start, and no clutch or gears to shift. More or less like enlarged electric golf carts. Then Charles Kettering invented the self-starter, just before WWI, and the world changed.
Back in college, required reading for engineering students (at least at Ohio State) was "Professional Amateur," the biography of Charles Kettering. He was basically the inventor of the modern automobile. He was to cars as Edison was to electricity.
Last edited by DWalt; 04-15-2024 at 10:38 PM.
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04-15-2024, 11:36 PM
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Trucks require truck tires too.
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04-16-2024, 11:53 AM
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How many miles do EV's average on a set of tires before they have to be replaced? I hadn't thought of that.
I give absolutely ZERO thought to ever owning one. DO NOT COMPLY is my motto.
The car companies just need to flat-out refuse to build them. This would force the Govt's hand and they'd have to back down.
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04-26-2024, 02:40 PM
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Don’t order Tesla auto pilot.
Tesla Autopilot linked to hundreds of collisions, has '''critical safety gap''': NHTSA
“Federal authorities say a “critical safety gap” in Tesla
’s Autopilot system contributed to at least 467 collisions, 13 resulting in fatalities and “many others” resulting in serious injuries.
The findings come from a National Highway Traffic Safety Administration analysis of 956 crashes in which Tesla Autopilot was thought to have been in use. The results of the nearly three-year investigation were published Friday.”
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04-26-2024, 04:45 PM
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From what I read, the learning curve for autonomous vehicles has a long way to climb. But it will happen within the next ten years. I think there is more emphasis being placed on long distance autonomous truck development at present.
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05-05-2024, 06:39 PM
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Here's another wonderful Tesla story
Montreal man on the hook for thousands of dollars after a feature on his Tesla caused an accident George Ghazzoul is warning other drivers about the new Smart Summon feature on Tesla vehicles after his self-driving vehicle side-swiped another in a parking lot.
When Ghazzoul bought a Tesla two years ago, he admitted it wasn't just the car's style that drove him; it was his love of technology.
"Really, the selling point for me is the fact you get software updates and you always get new features on the car," he said.
(Well, there's your problem right there, fella!) One of the latest downloadable features is Smart Summon.
Like a valet service, it allows your car to come to you using your phone's GPS as its target destination.
(Oh, pu-leeze! Gag me with a stick shift!) Ghazzoul decided to give it a try on April 10 when he was at the Fairview Shopping Centre parking lot.
He used the feature to summon his parked car to pick him up.
"I was within range when I activated it," he said. "I saw it moving initially, but then it took a sharp turn right instead of pulling out of the spot first." He tried to deactivate the feature, but the car didn't stop in time, so he ended up sideswiping the car parked beside it... ...he has since discovered that it wasn't even legal for him to use this driverless feature in public spaces in Quebec...
There must be an automotive equivalent of the old song, "Gimme that old time religion. It's good enough for me."
__________________
"I drank WHAT?" (Socrates)
Last edited by oldbrownhat; 05-05-2024 at 06:41 PM.
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