For those who had military or local authority/state jobs as well as other jobs where they paid into SS, this could be interesting.

Congressional Bill May Soon End Windfall Elimination - SmartAsset | SmartAsset

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Release the Kraken

The political humps have been dangling that carrot
for years.
Joined the PD at the age of 19 mostly cash paying jobs prior
to the Police gig...so not much paid into SS.
Most extra jobs paid cash.

Caught a steady gig extra job out at Houston's medical center.
Worked it until I got my 20 years with the PD and quit all extra jobs.

After Medicare I clear $39.00 on my SS check.

I had a second career for 20 years after PD and paid into Social Security. Also prior in army and HS. So they took a percentage but not as bad as I had feared. I still don’t do great due to 22 years not paying into it.

I don't know why the Windfall provision would affect military employees, but it does affect federal civilian employees hired before 1983. Not that they should be complaining, the CSRS pension is munificently magnificent; I'm saying this as someone on the outside looking in. :-(

People reflexively hate the government, especially if it costs them a dollar, like people who get a foreign pension, eh? :-) For those who may not be familiar with the SSA Windfall provision: The SSA benefit formula is weighted to give a higher percentage of pre-retirement income to folks who didn't earn much during their working lifetime, like the host of textile workers that used to be in the South. The windfall provision is intended to prevent that advantage to folks who may have had decent wages at a place where they paid no social security taxes on those wages, and all those zero tax years would make the formula think a person was a lower paid individual. It's a sliding scale based on the number of years someone paid into the social security system. Work enough yeas under SSA, and there's no offset at all. It's that simple.

If it makes you feel better, the formula gives richer people less of a percentage of their pre-retirement income, since for some reason hating the rich seems to a popular pasttime since at least Biblical times.

Here's the SSA page on Windfall provisions.

Benefits Planner: Retirement | Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP) Online Calculator | SSA

I'm simple minded. If you don't pay into the SS system you get SQUAT when retirement comes.

Next they need to send "Irmaa" to the dump. Joe

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Wisdom chases me; I'm faster

From what I have read the people that take the biggest hit work/have worked in local government with some kind of state pension plan. These vary greatly from state to state and your retirement benefit is highly dependent on the salary you were paid.

The system in Nevada is called PERS, and it is often criticized for its generous terms. Well, that's the price you pay when the state wants to expand its population to get more House seats. LE and firefighters do very well on PERS, but teachers not so much. A 75% pension based on bugger all salary is still not very much. Teachers and low-end state/county workers on these schemes often work other jobs that pay into SS, only to find they get dinged for having PERS.

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Release the Kraken

That's what I contended with, but thankfully I started paying SocSec when I was 16, so I managed 30 years in SocSec as well as 21 in NM PERA by FRA (66 years, 2 months).

Should that include illegal aliens? Or any non contributing aliens for that matter?

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"Don't Give Up the Ship"

Illegal aliens with fake SoSec numbers contribute a LOT of money that never gets paid out to them.

Shouldn't matter. An illegal shouldn't even be allowed to breathe in this country. No pay - no play.

Sez Who? A conspiracy theorist? Or a conspirator in actuality? You won't control my opinion with projected shame, nor to surrender my rights to natural and EARNED citizenship in favor of an imposter.

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"Don't Give Up the Ship"

Actually, no - the SocSec Regional Director in Roswell, NM (I worked with his wife). The fundamental problem is just accounting - since the numbers are phony or to dead people, no one person can individually withdraw the funds.

Is that helpful?

Undocumented immigrants quietly pay billions into Social Security and receive no benefits - Marketplace

First of all, anytime the government tells you something is a "Windfall" it usually isn't. I had a career of over 40 years in law enforcement. For 16 years I didn't pay into SS. I wound up with 24 years of SS credit so my SS check each month is smaller than most. The 16 years I didn't pay in was with a department that allowed us to voluntarily pay into the system but neglected to tell us that. I guessing that if this bill passes, and it probably won't in my lifetime, that I might get another $5-600 a month. I ain't holding my breath waiting for it and I'm comfortable for now because I planned ahead on things.

My beef with WEP is that I paid into both the US and Japanese social security systems for enough time to fully qualify for both. While I receive SS benefits from both, because of WEP, and a US-Japan G-to-G "arrangement," however, I don't get full benefits from both.

I don't get the windfall — the USG and GOJ do. At my expense.

I'm in a similar situation, except it involves an occupational pension from the UK. I am running out of years to put more into US SS, so the WEP is very unwelcome. Yes, I have other retirement vehicles and cash. However, I plan on either having a long retirement, and if not, leaving my wife well provided for.

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Release the Kraken

I am fortunate to have retired at 50 as a police chief with a nice CalPers pension and I will also receive full SS benefits; just have to decide when to draw it. As a bonus, my agency also paid into SS, both mine and the city’s contribution. I never paid a dime. My ex, on the other hand, retired from the California Department of Corrections as a sergeant. She gets a nice CalPers pension, but only gets $400 a month from SS.

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213th FBINA

Not necessarily. Many public employees pay into both social security and a public pension system, and the windfall elimination provision doesn't affect them. But some positions, even if covered by the same public pension system, are considered exempt from social security and don't have social security taxes withheld. The windfall elimination provision does apply to those folks. But it can get very complicated.

Having spent an hour or more on the SSA website tonight trying to use their estimator, I can back up that statement.

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Release the Kraken

Oh no, that wouldn't be fair. Better to raise the retirement age for those of us that did pay into it so that there is enough for those that didn't. And I'm OK with that, as long as I get a share of their fat pension.

…with sufficient “quarters” in my working days even though in my LEO job I did not contribute to it.

Signed up for SSA benefits at 62. Got $216./month until 65 and Medicare kicked in.

Now covered by Medicare I must pay more than $1000./year to be covered.

That said, even though elimination of the WEP would greatly benefit me, I am quite content with my pension that pays me MORE than when I worked. Yes, even factoring in inflation.

Be safe.

They say that SS is in risk of going insolvent, but now they want to pay people who didn't pay into it? SMH.

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Only a cold warrior

It's really pretty easy to understand - less than 40 qualified quarters = no SocSec for you.

I have been hearing that since Rip Van Winkle had a short beard!

Screwing around heavy duty like that would bring results that those people do not even want to think about!

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

Outside of mowing neighborhood lawns as a teenager, I've never had a job that didn't take out for SS.

I have done contract jobs where you get paid the entire contract. You also get a 1099 for the whole amount, You can deduct your expenses, but then you pay the entire social security amount as well as the income tax. Normally your employer pays 1/2 the social security.

I agree with the no pay, no get paid part. But, an illegal or anyone else who uses a fake number never gets anything back. If they use someone else's number that other person will git hit for thew taxes, but can later collect on the additional social security.

All I can say is marvelous. Believe me, "they" are getting theirs and part of mine and others in other ways. Joe

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Wisdom chases me; I'm faster

For many years, early in my carrier as a well paid construction worker I made enough money that SS was no longer deducted.

That would normally happen in Oct or November!

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

That's not what WEP going away means in any way shape or form. WEP can only affect those who have paid into SS for 40 quarters.

As of 2024, your SS benefits may be reduced by up to $587 depending on the size of your pension, how much you have paid in to SS, when you started taking the pension and some other factors. As noted above, it can get complicated. If I retired this year I estimate the WEP would hit me for about $400, which is a big percentage of my SS because I have only been in the system since 2007. The UK pension I get pays for the house, but not much else. I'm on a work hiatus right now riding herd on contractors at the house, but I may go back on a sort of consultancy basis for another year or so, depending on when my wife wants to pack it in.

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Release the Kraken

After you factor inflation into the 16 years you did not contribute, I say you have the advantage.

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"Don't Give Up the Ship"

You wouldn't get benefits for your law enforcement salary.

Only for the money that was subject to SS.

So for guys like me that had years of working before LE and then after, not to mention the part time income that I paid SS on, it seems fair.

So I am only receiving benefits on money I paid in, which I believe I earned.

I would not be taking a free ride.

So rest easy Sistema I won't be taking anything from you the way my payments are going to pay you since I chose to serve society.

NOT THAT I SUPPORT ILLEGALS running phony SS numbers:

But, all those people I saw picking pick fruit and vegetables were really raking the system big time besides taking those jobs from citizens.

What about all those actual citizens in certain religious sects, that pay no taxes while living in communes and have no money or wages of their own and whose medical bills the government covers? Plus, they get food assistance to. Are they better than illegal? How about the "pastor" of a tax exempt mega church who lives in a mansion and has a private jet? Hallelujah

How about the "mom" with 5 kids all with different daddies, sucking up assistance, while daddy to be number 6 lives with her in subsidized housing. Bet that cost more a month than most get for the Social Security they earned.

Worse yet the nearly 2 million culls spread out between Federal and state prisons, city and county jails. They all suck up an average of $45,800 per head per year for their room and board and medical. Nobody gets that much SS

We have more money draining free loading "citizens" than we do illegals. But, right now those illegals are making way better political fodder than the rest of the rot.

I don't believe this affects the military, at least the "old" military retirement program that was in effect in my day, 1973-1993. Don't know how it worked since then.
All of my military base pay was subject to SS tax and counted toward my "credits".

Steelslaver to clarify my removal of the "like" on your post because I am not one to unlike and run.

Some of your post I agree with but I don't have an issue funding prisons when it comes to housing those that harm others.

I also am not behind the first part but think it is your attempt at sarcasm. I also know there are plenty of legal immigrants here that hold positions that citizens think they are to good to perform.

You also failed to mention all the folks taking SS disability who are far from disabled. Not saying people don't deserve disability when they do, and as a person who was eligible but declined to take it, I understand.

But when I see people drawing, that claim to be disabled right up until they are 65 and then can do all kinds of physical activities. Or you are in a foot chase with some mope who claims to have a bad back, that irritates me to no end.

Especially when I lose half of what I earned paying into that system.

I have nothing against those who come and actually do work nobody else will. But we need to fix the system so that is possible and those who hire them are responsible for them. But then a lot of guys I worked with used to pick fruit and veggies as kids. Now not only would 99% of kids not do it, most parents would even think of asking therm too.

I have no use for anyone illegal or legal who just sucks off the system and has never done squat to actually help out. That includes the the vast majority of the 535 freeloaders in congress and their staff.

I also have nothing against locking criminals up, but in a whole lot of cases we should spent 6 cents or so on a 22 shell and save everyone a lot of time, money and trouble.

I also have no problem feeding a hungry kid, I do have a problem with feeding and housing some of their parents.

My wife did SS hearings as a side gig for a big firm for a while and got so much a head, win or lose, she hated it. Because most of the clients were kinda nuts. But, at least around here, the judges didn't give you squat unless you actually couldn't work. I kind of got the idea that getting SS disability isn't as easy as it once was. But, many of those who thought they should get it were for stuff that was laughable. Being a drunk, anti social, irresponsible, a druggy and the like won't qualify you. You also better come with some actual medical reports. If they got phony medical reports that is as much on a *** Dr as on them. If you are sat a licensed RN, but can't get along with people or fo some reason can't do that anymore for some reason but could still be a door man at Walmart you do not qualify for SS disability anymore.

My point was and still is we got way to many lice of all types sucking on the government teat, SS is just a part of it.

I don't recall how many times the SS fund has been raided by Congress and left with a worthless IOU, but it would be interesting to see how much the SS fund would increase if Congress paid back the stolen funds with interest.

Big butt momma who cranks out 10 kids by 10 baby-daddies is taking but not giving.

Not from SocSec unless baby daddies were 1) vested in SocSec, and 2) dead.

Indeed. Why are so many drifting off into welfare, which is entirely separate from SS?

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Release the Kraken

I think the connection is so many get funding they shouldn't that it takes from the big pot that could keep SS solvent and fair.

But I get your point on drifting and am back on point.

In reality it all comes from the same pot and that pot is either filled by a tax on EARNED money. SS withholding, income, capital gains, whatever OR the money created by increased debt is a tax. That increase in funds due to debt especially over the last 17 years (not just the last 3) has lead us to the inflation we are seeing right now. You can't toss an additional 23 Trillion dollars in the money pool and expect to get any other result. That is an additional $77,000 per person and about $130,000 per actual tax payer. Every dime of your SS check or wage you make or have saved is being TAXED by that inflation. In addition, the ever increasing interest on the ever increasing debt, means less in the pot.

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Lots of misunderstanding of what WEP does. Eliminating the WEP would NOT result in paying people who haven't contributed. Simply put, WEP applies to people who HAVE paid into the system long enough to meet the threshold to qualify for benefits, but who (1) have paid in for less than 30 years AND (2) receive a pension from a job that was social security exempt. As LV Steve notes, the WEP formula involves a number of factors, but essentially applies a sliding scale reduction in benefits based on how much under the thirty-year contribution time is involved. So if you paid in for more than 30 years, your benefit isn't reduced. If, like me, you've paid in for 28 years on "substantial earnings" -- an inflation-adjusted number -- you'll receive a small reduction. If you've paid in for less than that, you get a bigger reduction, although the percentage of reduction remains the same for those contributing for under 20 years, and there's a cap to how much the reduction can be, currently just under $600 per month.

And to be clear, income tax is very separately accounted from FICA & sel-employment (SocSec insurance) and Medicare insurance payments. These are not drawn from the larger pool of income taxes, although if Congress doesn't add revenue or reduce benefits, some general income taxes would have to be added in from 2034 through 2097; existing FICA, stc., will still cover 80% of all benefits through 2097.
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