The Great Marianas Turkey Shoot …..

fordson

fordson

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……or aka the Battle of the Philippine Sea, occurred on 19 June, 1944, making this the eightieth anniversary of the battle. At the time, it was somewhat overshadowed by the liberation of Rome (4 June) and of course the Normandy invasion ( D-Day, 6 June), however, it did result in the greatest aircraft carrier battle of the war. By the end of the battle (19-20 June), some 350-420 (sources vary) Japanese aircraft were destroyed, along with two Japanese aircraft carriers sunk and a dozen lesser and supply ships sunk or damaged at a cost of some 30 U.S. aircraft lost from enemy actions with minimal damage to one U.S. battleship. The invasion of Saipan (Operation Forager) occurred on 15 June and Adm Raymond Spruance’s Fifth Fleet was tasked with overall sea control of the area. Admirals Spruance, Fifth Fleet and Marc Mitscher, TF 58, fought a defensive battle on the 19th, against IJN forces attempting to disrupt the Saipan landings. By fighting an initial defensive battle, they encouraged the Japanese to exhaust themselves trying to penetrate the Navy’s defensive line. Then on the late afternoon of the 20th, they launched a counter blow on the retreating IJN forces at extreme range . The results did not inflict as much further damage to the IJN as they had wished for given the cost of lost aircraft and crews returning with battle damage, nearly out of fuel and trying to make night carrier landings for which many were unqualified. Over 80 aircraft were lost in the chaotic and disorganized night carrier landing as desperate pilots tried to find an open deck on which to land. Mitscher finally order the fleet to “turn on your lights” and for pilots to land on any open and available carrier deck. Even with all this, the one-sidedness of the battle had an irrevocable impact upon the IJN from which they never were able to recover.
For those interested in further reading on the battle, recommend the pictured books below……I was tried of typing and a photo was easier.
 

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Thanks for the history lesson, fordson. I know little about the history of WWII battles. Reading carefully, this is what I get:

• 15 June, 1944, The invasion of Saipan (Operation Forager) begins

• 19-20 June, 1944, Battle of the Philippine Sea:

- Japan loses 350-420 aircraft, two aircraft carriers, a dozen other ships
- US loses 30 aircraft, minor damage to one battleship

That is a great victory, for sure.

• 20 June [as the Invasion of Saipan is succeeding] US planes attack at extreme range retreating Imperial Japanese Navy
- Japan: Less damage than US hoped for, and
- US 80 damaged and returning US aircraft lost attempting night carrier landings.

Sounds like a tragic loss of men and aircraft for the US.

Overall, the Battle of the Philippine Sea and the Invasion of Saipan are a great victory for the US and a turning point in the war.
 
BLACKHAWKNJ said:
The USS Albacore sank the IJN Taiho with ONE torpedo. The Taiho's Damage Control Officer ordered all compartments opened, all fans turned on at maximum power, that spread gasoline vapors throught the ship, then...
Click to expand...

Just happened to be putting some stuff in my submarine book
 

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fordson said:
... Mitscher finally order the fleet to “turn on your lights” and for pilots to land on any open and available carrier deck.
Click to expand...

Turning on the lights was a huge violation of wartime doctrine that blackout conditions must be maintained at all times. Admiral Mitscher earned the permanent admiration of every US Navy airman by violating this rule in order to save his flight crews. One can only imagine the emotions felt by exhausted pilots, lost in the darkness and low on fuel, when the entire eastern horizon was suddenly lit up like Times Square, with hundreds of searchlights pointing skyward to guide them home. Mitscher made his gutsy decision from the flag bridge of the USS Lexington, which you can visit today, preserved as a memorial ship at Corpus Christi, Texas.

There is also an interesting collection of Mitscher's personal photographs (over 800 of them) that is accessible on the Flickr site of the San Diego Air and Space Museum. Here is the link: Marc Mitscher Collection SC.10099 | Flickr
 
Anyone interested in the history of the Pacific War in WW2 I HIGHLY recommend the trilogy of books (2 of 3 pictured, I didn't get volume 2 yet and made the mistake of starting with volume 3) from Ian W. Toll. These are extremely well written, detailed without being boring and IMHO one of the best reads out there.
In addition to the Allied side of the war he also writes a lot about the Japanese side of the war.
 

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MTC(SS)Ret said:
Anyone interested in the history of the Pacific War in WW2 I HIGHLY recommend the trilogy of books (2 of 3 pictured, I didn't get volume 2 yet and made the mistake of starting with volume 3) from Ian W. Toll. These are extremely well written, detailed without being boring and IMHO one of the best reads out there.
In addition to the Allied side of the war he also writes a lot about the Japanese side of the war.
Click to expand...

Master Chief, I’ve got the trilogy sitting on my “to-read” book shelf . Looking forward to any book by Ian Toll. His “Six Frigates” was very good.
 

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Onomea said:
Thanks for the history lesson, fordson. I know little about the history of WWII battles. Reading carefully, this is what I get:

• 15 June, 1944, The invasion of Saipan (Operation Forager) begins

• 19-20 June, 1944, Battle of the Philippine Sea:

- Japan loses 350-420 aircraft, two aircraft carriers, a dozen other ships
- US loses 30 aircraft, minor damage to one battleship

That is a great victory, for sure.

• 20 June [as the Invasion of Saipan is succeeding] US planes attack at extreme range retreating Imperial Japanese Navy
- Japan: Less damage than US hoped for, and
- US 80 damaged and returning US aircraft lost attempting night carrier landings.

Sounds like a tragic loss of men and aircraft for the US.

Overall, the Battle of the Philippine Sea and the Invasion of Saipan are a great victory for the US and a turning point in the war.
Click to expand...

I’m not a very good “reporter” or writer, but your understanding of the salient points was spot on…….there is naturally more details of the operation that were left out but color the battle in the final analysis. There was much criticism of ADM Spruance ,a non-aviator surface warrior, by the aviation community for not being aggressive enough. He had 15 carriers (nine Essex Class (Fast) carriers and six Independence Class Light carriers) under his command with over 1000 aircraft available for strikes.
Mitscher handling of the night recovery should have been better organized. As an Aviator himself, he should have anticipated the problems of damaged aircraft , low on fuel , with unqualified aircrews making night carrier traps and been better organized and prepared to deal with it. Also a challenging issue was the U.S. Fleet had to turn eastward to launch aircraft which was a direction away from the enemy which increased the distance and time to strike while the IJN launching aircraft into the eastern wind could close the distance to the American Fleet. Lot of small details on which battles hinged……
 
fordson said:
I’m not a very good “reporter” or writer, but your understanding of the salient points was spot on…….there is naturally more details of the operation that were left out but color the battle in the final analysis. There was much criticism of ADM Spruance ,a non-aviator surface warrior, by the aviation community for not being aggressive enough. He had 15 carriers (nine Essex Class (Fast) carriers and six Independence Class Light carriers) under his command with over 1000 aircraft available for strikes.
Mitscher handling of the night recovery should have been better organized. As an Aviator himself, he should have anticipated the problems of damaged aircraft , low on fuel , with unqualified aircrews making night carrier traps and been better organized and prepared to deal with it. Also a challenging issue was the U.S. Fleet had to turn eastward to launch aircraft which was a direction away from the enemy which increased the distance and time to strike while the IJN launching aircraft into the eastern wind could close the distance to the American Fleet. Lot of small details on which battles hinged……
Click to expand...

Right you are, but bottom line we won!
 
fordson said:
...There was much criticism of ADM Spruance ,a non-aviator surface warrior, by the aviation community for not being aggressive enough. He had 15 carriers (nine Essex Class (Fast) carriers and six Independence Class Light carriers) under his command with over 1000 aircraft available for strikes.

Mitscher handling of the night recovery should have been better organized. As an Aviator himself, he should have anticipated the problems of damaged aircraft , low on fuel , with unqualified aircrews making night carrier traps and been better organized and prepared to deal with it.

Also a challenging issue was the U.S. Fleet had to turn eastward to launch aircraft which was a direction away from the enemy which increased the distance and time to strike while the IJN launching aircraft into the eastern wind could close the distance to the American Fleet.

Lot of small details on which battles hinged……
Click to expand...

I assume the criticism of ADM Spruance was that sending his planes that far out to chase the retreating Japanese ships (without inflicting much damage], led to losing many planes upon their returning at night, damaged, low on fuel, unable to land on carriers due to lack of training, plus due to the carriers being without lights (initially) due to policy.

Earlier you wrote that Spruance fought a defensive battle, causing the Japanese to exhaust them themselves before they retreated:

....Admirals Spruance, Fifth Fleet and Marc Mitscher, TF 58, fought a defensive battle on the 19th, against IJN forces attempting to disrupt the Saipan landings. By fighting an initial defensive battle, they encouraged the Japanese to exhaust themselves trying to penetrate the Navy’s defensive line...
Click to expand...

Their thinking, it seems to me, might well have been that they had a lot of men on their 15 carriers and the support ships, and that they could save a lot of lives (and ships, planes) and still defeat the Japanese by luring them into a defensive battle rather than going toe-to-toe.

The criticism of ADM Mitscher, an aviator himself, not planning the night recovery better... I think perhaps the main reason for the criticism was that 80 planes were lost without inflicting the desired damage on the Japanese...

Hard to see how he could have planned the recovery better if he was forbidden by policy to turn on his carriers' landing lights for the returning planes. That he did so, finally, despite the policy, shows great courage.

swsig said:
Turning on the lights was a huge violation of wartime doctrine that blackout conditions must be maintained at all times. Admiral Mitscher earned the permanent admiration of every US Navy airman by violating this rule in order to save his flight crews. One can only imagine the emotions felt by exhausted pilots, lost in the darkness and low on fuel, when the entire eastern horizon was suddenly lit up like Times Square, with hundreds of searchlights pointing skyward to guide them home...
Click to expand...

This act, turning on the lights against policy, is to my mind a great example of our national character. In a crisis, the best of us believe in doing what we as individuals believe is right, policy, orders, consequences be damned. A German or Japanese admiral would never make such a decision.
 
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fordson said:
Master Chief, I’ve got the trilogy sitting on my “to-read” book shelf . Looking forward to any book by Ian Toll. His “Six Frigates” was very good.
Click to expand...
You won't be disappointed, his is one of the best I've read on the Pacific conflict. To be honest, there were some parts when he describes what our sailors and marines went through as well as the Japanese civilians I was near tears.
 
Onomea — All good points. I’ll try to provide amplifying comments as best as I know them to each of your points:
* Criticism of ADM Spruance — The major criticism was his lack of understanding the full potential of naval air and thereby his hesitation in launching earlier in the day. However, his orders were to safeguard the Saipan assault and available intell, as it was, advised that there “might be” another IJN Fleet coming from the north….or possibly the south… to attack the landing beaches. Therefore, he was reluctant to leave (or abandon) the landing beaches when they might need the carrier forces the most. He saw no need to chase after a retiring enemy force who posed no threat to the Saipan invasion. He launched strikes the following day when he was “comfortable “ that there were no other threats to the beach head. However, he launched only half his strike force, holding back the other half, JIC.
*TF 58 fought a defensive battle on the 19th - From the very beginning of the Pacific War, the Japanese strategy was to lure the U.S. Navy into a “decisive battle “ that would determine the out come of the war, of course, in the Japanese favor. In reality, there were several “decisive battles “ during the course of the war that Japan didn’t realize at the time that they were. The Philippines Sea was one such battle. Naval Intell knew at the time, that the IJN was but a shadow of its former self. There is no question as to the courage of their forces, but their training and the quality of that training did not match what it had been in 1941/42. While the Aviators on ADM Spruance staff advised to strike first, he felt that the IJN aircrew’s inexperience and lack of training would show itself against his defensive line, which could also still provide coverage to the landing beaches.
* ADM Mitscher and the Disorganized Night Recovery - Yes, as an experienced Naval Aviator, he and his staff knew what to expect with the return of these long range air strikes. Wounded on board, first priority for recovery, XX gallons of fuel remaining, second priority, etc….. turning on the lights, yes the right move regardless of SOP……however, better planning and organization could have resulted in less aircrews and aircraft lost.
 
MTC(SS)Ret said:
Anyone interested in the history of the Pacific War in WW2 I HIGHLY recommend the trilogy of books (2 of 3 pictured, I didn't get volume 2 yet and made the mistake of starting with volume 3) from Ian W. Toll. These are extremely well written, detailed without being boring and IMHO one of the best reads out there.
In addition to the Allied side of the war he also writes a lot about the Japanese side of the war.
Click to expand...


Thank you for the recommendation. I just ordered volume one.
 
fordson said:
Onomea — All good points. I’ll try to provide amplifying comments as best as I know them to each of your points:

* Criticism of ADM Spruance — The major criticism was his lack of understanding the full potential of naval air and thereby his hesitation in launching earlier in the day. However, his orders were to safeguard the Saipan assault and available intel, as it was, advised that there “might be” another IJN Fleet coming from the north….or possibly the south… to attack the landing beaches. Therefore, he was reluctant to leave (or abandon) the landing beaches when they might need the carrier forces the most. He saw no need to chase after a retiring enemy force who posed no threat to the Saipan invasion.

He launched strikes the following day when he was “comfortable “ that there were no other threats to the beach head. However, he launched only half his strike force, holding back the other half, JIC.

*TF 58 fought a defensive battle on the 19th - From the very beginning of the Pacific War, the Japanese strategy was to lure the U.S. Navy into a “decisive battle “ that would determine the out come of the war, of course, in the Japanese favor.

In reality, there were several “decisive battles “ during the course of the war that Japan didn’t realize at the time that they were. The Philippines Sea was one such battle. Naval intel knew at the time, that the IJN was but a shadow of its former self. There is no question as to the courage of their forces, but their training and the quality of that training did not match what it had been in 1941/42.

While the Aviators on ADM Spruance staff advised to strike first, he felt that the IJN aircrew’s inexperience and lack of training would show itself against his defensive line, which could also still provide coverage to the landing beaches.

* ADM Mitscher and the Disorganized Night Recovery - Yes, as an experienced Naval Aviator, he and his staff knew what to expect with the return of these long range air strikes. Wounded on board, first priority for recovery, XX gallons of fuel remaining, second priority, etc….. turning on the lights, yes the right move regardless of SOP……however, better planning and organization could have resulted in less aircrews and aircraft lost.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the explication, fordson. I appreciate the education. (My dad, a Marine Lt. Japanese language interpreter, fought in the Pacific theater.)
 
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