I won't say what I think until others have posted and what Happen on memorial day when I went to see my wife on her resting place.......

__________________
Only difference Fool/Mule-ears

As with most things military, so long as you have the paperwork to support it....
1. Formally assigned to a combat unit and in a MOS/TOE slot that requires participation in combat operations.
2. In an area officially designated as a combat zone/area of operations.

That sounds about right. One thing is for sure, if you were there you will not forget. I'll not forget the friends I lost. No embellishment required.

Who qualifies as a combat veteran?

How Can I Tell if I'm a Combat Veteran?
Eligibility Explained

The VA lists several different ways in which a Veteran can prove he or she was in combat:
If you received a combat service medal.
If you received hostile fire pay, imminent danger pay, or tax benefits.
If you received military service documentation that documents combat theater.

Disclaimer: I never was in the service.

To me a combat veteran is somebody that was in combat. IE: bullets flying, bombs dropping.
I know a couple of guys that in the service during Viet Nam but never went to Nam. I do not consider them a "combat veteran" but they could have been. Just depends on where they were deployed to.

They are not. I maintained bombers in tankers at three bases in Thailand, Guam, and Okinawa, all "in direct support" of the VN combat, yet I am not a "combat" vet. Wasn't "in country," didn't receive combat/hazardous duty pay, etc. But I do qualify as a VN Vet for my numerous supporting tours. I consider myself a SEA Vet.

The Brits have an old saying, “ to see the elephant”. By chance one can not figure it out look it up. I wear a RVN Veterans hat few times a week and when I asked for the Veterans discount the girl asked to see my ID. She said she has seen several guys wearing the hat but were not there. I told her” , “just send them to the local VFW”…….

It may help to consider the structure and functions of the military services as a team. For every grunt with a rifle, every pilot in the cockpit, and every sailor in dangerous waters there must always be another dozen or more personnel in support roles to keep the mission going. Logistics (transportation, food, fuel, clothing, ammunition, everything necessary for operations and contingencies), medical services, training, planning, intelligence gathering and analysis, communications; an endless list of essentials.

This is not to take anything away from the people at the sharp end of the stick, only to point out that the entire team is necessary to get the point where it needs to be, when it needs to be there, properly trained, properly equipped, and physically prepared to deliver the punch.

During my 21 months in Vietnam I knew cooks, clerks, and mechanics with Purple Hearts and combat valor awards, I saw unarmed medics run or crawl through small arms fire to assist wounded soldiers, I saw military police man the bunker line and engage attacking forces, and I saw supposedly secure areas (usually considered to be plum assignments) struck with devastating rocket artillery barrages with high casualty rates.

Every position within a combat theater, and every function in support of theater operations, is essential to the effort and always at risk of becoming the next target.

My 2 cents worth.

__________________
Life of the party until 8:00PM

I did eight years in the Air Force. The only combat I saw was wrestling drunk drivers and abusive spouses and breaking up fights at the club. My DD-214 says I “deployed in Support of Operation Desert Shield/Storm” but I actually went to Puerto Rico! No combat there. I don’t consider myself a combat veteran in the least of course.

__________________
It’s Fudd-Daddy to you.

I was stationed on a carrier (not aircrew) that flew combat missions into Laos, etc. I do not consider myself a combat vet.

__________________
Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

On 2 May 2005, the Chief of Staff of the U.S. Army (CSA) approved the creation of the CAB to provide special recognition to U.S. soldiers who personally engaged, or are engaged by, the enemy.[3] The CAB is intended to serve as a companion to the Combat Infantryman Badge (CIB) and Combat Medical Badge (CMB) and was created to recognize the greatly expanded role of non-infantry soldiers in active, ground combat.[4]

U.S. Army infantrymen or special forces soldiers with the rank of colonel or below and who are a member of a brigade-sized or smaller infantry or special forces unit, receive the Combat Infantryman Badge (CIB) instead of the CAB.



CIB, posted in honor of Pop..and all the rest who " Saw the Elephant "

__________________
SWCA #2306
DAV in honor of POP

I spent 9 months on a carrier off the coast of N. Vietnam (Yankee Station). We received "hostile fire" pay (and free postage) and I got hazardous duty pay because I worked on the flight deck but I consider my self a Vietnam Veteran, but not a combat veteran. The pilots and aircrew however, were.

I think you would have to have someone shooing at you in a
combat theatre.

Did two 9 month cruises '65-'67. Dixie and Yankee stations. No one shot at me and I did not shoot at anyone, but I helped the ship complete its missions. I agree with your statement.

__________________
Well done > well said

The Marines had (still do ?) a Combat Action Badge, the Marine Corps doctrine in the 60s was that every Marine was a rifleman first and back then Marines went through Infantry Training regiment after finishing Boot
Camp. There have been various attempts over the years to introduce a Combat Armor and Combat Artilleryman's badge in the Army, all have been rejected. One Vietnam vet MP told me his platoon regularly accompanied the grunts as POW handlers, they were put in for the CIB-and turned down. Many rear echelon and base camp types said they endured their share of shellings, rocket attacks, sapper attacks but received no recognition. Paratroopers who landed under fire were entitled to wear a star on their wings. IIRC for Vietnam the CIB was awarded only after 30 days in an infantry unit.

Folks have been self-identifying as combat vets for decades - Most of the time, an empty can makes the most noise and are fairly easy to ID.

Personally, I'm a nobody, I don't claim to be anything and I don't care what others do or say as long as it doesn't affect me.

I've known a guy for decades who claims to be a Vietnam era SEAL. He owns a store and I've done business with him, but I've had my doubts about him and his stories. He's a SEAL, then UDT, then SEAL and UDT and bla, bla, bla,.. Then he showed be pictures of himself supposedly after Vietnam when he said was a 1%er biker. Wearing a leather vest and a Harley T-shirt doesn't make one a biker. In the picture, he had the physique of an anorexic girl, ashtray glasses and he's about 5'5", at best. SEAL!? Yeah, sure.

I was there when an ACTUAL Vietnam era SEAL came in introduced himself and started talking and asking questions. I sat down and listened.
Questions, like what BUDs class were you in?
Did you know so and so, he was in your class or he's in the class after yours?
Where were you at?
What operations were you on?

The answers/body language are predictable from somebody who is a poser. He's a poser.

Anyway, I'm a nobody, but whatever.

__________________
Thread Killer.

I have run into several people who claimed to be Vietnam helicopter pilots. Before I ask where they were stationed I ask them what flight school class they graduated from. EVERYBODY remembers their class number. It is forever etched into your brain. Those that say they don't remember did NOT do it. It's not really funny watching someone tap dance around their lie. It's pathetic.

The Naval Service awards the Combat Action Ribbon (CAR)
to Navy and Marine Corps personnel who render satisfactory performance under enemy fire while actively participating in a ground or surface engagement. The ribbon is also presented to Coast Guard members who are mobilized under U.S. Navy control or command.

Attached Images

IMG_0888.jpeg (35.9 KB, 6 views)

__________________
"Your other right........."

I am just a veteran, not a combat veteran.

I was stationed at Osan AB Korea, 1978-81 as Security Police K-9 Handler. Worked the perimeter duty, base police, and Military Customs.

Since technically the Korean War has never ended, still just an armistice, no peace agreement, I received the Korean Defense medal.

Now my father who received the same medal for service in Korea 1951-53 is a combat veteran.

My definition differs from that of the Navy, which calls my absolutely n'er-do-well ex-brother-in-law a "combat vet" for serving as a Clerk Typist on a destroyer that never got closer than 250 miles to the Vietnam coast, never suffered any crisis that wasn't a drill or a paper cut......

I wish my dad were still around to comment. He earned his CIB as a 20-year-old platoon sergeant crossing the Rhine in 1945.

__________________
Pisgah

Excellent post! For those of us who served in infantry units in combat and received the CIB, it was a source of pride that sometimes bordered on arrogance. Many of us did not wear any other decorations unless specifically ordered to do so; the Combat Infantryman Badge says everything that needs to be said, long before the trite jingo "been there, done that" came along.

Only one way to earn it.

__________________
Life of the party until 8:00PM

I had to deal with a situation going the other way. For the record, I was never in the Armed Forces either.

I was at a fast food place ordering lunch including coffee. I was wearing some sort of service related wristband or bracelet. I'm the right age to have been a Vietnam era veteran. The nice young man at the cash register said we give free coffee to veterans. I told him that I was never in the service . I might have told him my grandfather served in World War I. He then said he would pay for my coffee, either in recognition of my grandfather's service or my support for the military. I don't want even an accidental bestowing of valor that I never earned.

My uncle was a Cpl. in the Second Armored Division during WWII. His fruit salad wasn't as impressive as Audie Murphy's, but it did have a CIB and a purple ribbon. He qualified.

__________________
The best I can with what I got

To be an Actual Vietnam Veteran one had to have Boots On The Ground.
By chance one does not know what color the VC & NVA tracers were, never got knocked down or had to sit down from an ARC Light strike ,never saw the flame from a 122 mm rocket, never had to run to a bunker due to incoming, heard/ saw ammo dump blowing up, saw smelled a POL blowing up, never smelled Nouc Maum , saw shot dead dogs being drug to cook I don’t know what to say…..

Nuoc mam is going too far. That stuff will gag a maggot, drop strong men to their knees from 50 yards downwind. Vietnamese people grow up with this as a part of their daily diet, perhaps even a delicacy to be savored and enjoyed.

For the uninitiated, nuoc mam is a very common condiment throughout Vietnam. Probably as many recipes and methods as there are villages and tribes, but the primary ingredients are fish heads and entrails combined with veggies, herbs and spices in an earthen crock, buried on the sunny slope of a hill and left to ferment for months. Usually served over rice or noodles, whatever is making the meal of the day.

Predictably, like everything else we consume the essence becomes part of our bodies and is exuded through the pores of the skin as a distinctive bodily odor.

The coastal areas of Vietnam have very active fishing industries, and I suppose some trade takes place with outlying areas. In much of the country the source of fish is the rice paddies, commonly used for human waste disposal as fertilizer.

Tourists may wish to exercise some restraint in their culinary adventures while in Vietnam.

__________________
Life of the party until 8:00PM

Interesting opinions here.
I just don't think ground pounders are the only ones who see combat.
Does the NGFS of the big "J" on the Ho Chi Minh trail count as combat?
Maybe by some here but they did move the trail further in by 50 miles!
And I do know of one DD that took on NVA artillery and did take a hit on mount 53 killing some sailors....
Was that combat? I think so......

__________________
Only difference Fool/Mule-ears

......"fish heads and entrails combined with veggies, herbs and spices in an earthen crock, buried on the sunny slope of a hill and left to ferment for months....."

Sounds like Viet Nam Haggis!

73,
Rick

Dad spent a year and a half on the USS Rathburne in WWII. Shelled the beaches at Leyte Gulf. Took a kamikaze thru the front of the ship.

Uncle landed with the 4th Marines on Tinian, Sai Pan, Roi Namur and Iwo Jima. Left Iwo with mortar shrapnel in his back.

Cousin spent 12 months in the jungle in Vietnam.

Son spent a a year hanging out of the open door of a Chinook helicopter behind a machine gun, flying missions in Iraq.

Those are combat vet. Not minimizing the effort of others who supported. but combat vet seems to be very clear.

I was 18 in 1973 and my government didn't call me. I am forever grateful to those it did, even if they did not end up directly in harms way.

I eat dinner each month with three Vietnam vets. When we get up to pay, they get the veteran discount. I make sure the cashier knows that I did not earn that and don't take it.

__________________
Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

BTW, their tracers were green. 12.7 tracers look like big green footballs when they are bouncing past you.

Plenty of frauds and poseurs within the military. In 1970 an Assistant Division Commander of the 1st Cav received the Silver Star for a fictitious event. The clerk was told to write up the citation, when he protested he was told to shut up and do as he was told. He took another citation, changed names, place names, dates. On the day the supposed act of valor took place, that general was not in-country. That led to a torrent of allegations of unearned and undeserved awards.
With the War on Terror having made military service fashionable again and a resume enhancer all sorts of attempts by people to pass themselves off as "combat vets". There was that Senator Harkins from Iowa, he flew damaged planes from Vietnam to Japan for repair, tried to claim he was a Vietnam vet. Jesse Ventura made a big deal of his being a Navy SEAL, finally admitted he had never been in combat.

VA used to require “ Boots on the Ground” to qualify as Vietnam Veteran for agent orange claims.
Nouc Maum was just thrown in for fun. Many years ago had a good friend that was 11 B and saw a bases 4 times in his tour. Sadly he passed last year. He said he never smelled the four smelling stuff.

Thanks to everyone who served, hostile fire or no.

You’re heroes in my book.

__________________
- Post No Bills -

I could not stand picking up ARVN's after their lunch break. The smell of nuoc mam permeated the air.

I agree 100% with deadin. I was in the same situation. I seem to recall that we got hostile fire pay, although I don't know why. We got tax benefits. I have our RVN Service Medal with four stars for four tours. Our carrier (CVA-31) got a couple of decorations from the RVN. But nobody ever shot at me, and I never set foot in Viet Nam.

The VA has their definitions for their reasons, and so does the IRS. It is not my nature to start arguments with people who are handing me money, or taking less of it than they were fixing to, but there is no way that I consider myself in the same class as people who were getting shot at. We both did honorably what we were told to do, but they did more.

That's it.

__________________
Formerly Model520Fan

I have a friend who lives in Israel. Her daughter (Just turned 18) is EMS. every time there's a rocket attack her daughter is in it. Her daughter was also picking up wounded on October 7th. Is she a Combat vet?

__________________
Retired Career Security Guard

I've heard "Seen the elephant and and touched 'is hide."
And also "Seen the bear and smelt his fur."
Both of these imply not only having been there but also involved up close and personal.

If I were to go there and not want to offend the locals when offered their delicacy, is it OK to pick the maggots out before eating that goo?

I am a proud vet who didn’t serve in combat or during any military conflict. However, as a DoD and DoS contractor, I served down range with military personnel in Afghanistan, carrying arms, but I am in no way, a combat vet. That said, I’ve see more combat than some political candidates.

__________________
213th FBINA

It amuses me to see all the frauds and poseurs who tell stories but don't bother to do their homework, get the dates, details of equipment, uniform, etc. right. The noted FBI profiler Robert Ressler was an MP officer in Vietnam, maintained his reserve status, cited one poseur whose DD-214 showed medals from every service, every award for valor save the MOH. At least that phony knew he had to have a DD-214.
Again, it goes back to paperwork.

I was in Vietnam (Long Binh) for 11 months. I only carried a weapon when going to Saigon with documents. I never fired a weapon. Long Binh was a huge base and there were several cases of rockets, 122's mostly, and mortar rounds hitting the base. I saw a lot of green tracers at night.

My daughter was born 10 years after I returned and she suffers serious birth defects due to my exposure to Agent Orange. Almost 40 years after I returned, I suffered prostate cancer due to Agent Orange. I still suffer some effects of the surgery. My daughter and I both get disability payments from the VA.

I do not consider myself a combat veteran, I am a Vietnam vet.

When my grandchildren, and now great-grandchildren, ask "Grampa, what did you do in the war?" my usual response is "I was an enlisted soldier, I went where I was told to go and I did what I had to do".

All of my records, decorations, and citations are in a box in the garage. I have no "I LOVE ME" wall in the house. State of Colorado gives me a free set of license plates every year with the Purple Heart logo, also a free state parks pass and free small game hunting and fishing license. After 50 years the Veterans Administration decided I should receive 70% permanent service-connected disability; probably my fault for waiting and hoping that I wasn't disabled and could live my life like normal people, pay my bills, raise my family, do the right thing.

Oh well, it all worked out for me. Many others had worse experiences.

__________________
Life of the party until 8:00PM

I served a year in a combat zone, namely Vietnam. Our base was rocketed and mortared, our boats were occasionally fired on. I was designated weapons guy on our boat and assigned an M14 and given training on the M2 we carried. I began having health issues with my Thyroid years ago, my Prostate had to be removed because it was cancerous. A friend of mine asked me if I ever went to the VA. I told him there were guys a lot worse off than me that need the VA. He said "You served in Vietnam are probably eligible for medical care and maybe compensation, your health issues could be caused by your exposure to Agent Orange." Still I hesitated, but after talking to others decided to at least register, I was still working at the time and didn't need any compensation.
I went to the VFW which was located on the same campus as the hospital and was taken in like a long lost brother, they walked me through the process and within couple months was awarded a 70% disability. The Urologist that removed my prostate was very willing to help me because he wondered why at 53 I would have such a virulent strain with no other male members of my family having a history, that was twenty years ago this past July.
I have nothing but good to say about my treatment by the VA, I believe our local VA hospital is one of the best in the nation.
I am not a combat soldier and served in a non combatant role of support as much the same as a clerk typist, supply guy, truck driver and for that matter pilot that only flew in and out of a base.
I have been constantly amazed at the numbers of people I have known or been told about that were Combat Infantrymen, Marine sniper or Recon. They were their hats covered with badges and pins. I know for a fact that those guys are few and far between compared to the others like myself were basically non combatents, even though we got shelled or shot at that does not count as actually being in combat.
On our base we had four gun towers, if you were staying at the base you got called up for guard duty. You arrived for guard duty, received your M-16 and bandolier of ammo and went to your assigned tower where there was an M-60 and cases of ammo. If you were on guard duty and an alert went up and you charged and fired the M-60 or your assigned M-16 you were not in combat, if you got injured by fire you were eligible for a Purple Heart but the same holds true if you fell out of the tower and broke your leg and there is probably someone getting disability for breaking his leg falling out of a gun tower.
Sometimes it depends on to which outfit you are assigned, if you were assigned to a high combat outfit as a clerk typist you might just by default get to wear the combat infantryman's badge, I'm sure that has happened. But whose to say that in some events even the clerk typist had to ruck up and give or receive fire while in the act of being overrun as some outfits were.
In the end, there are people that justify their actions in any manner you can think of, cheaters cheat and I was once told by an accountant that "Even the best people cheat on their Income Tax."

My active duty time was on the East Coast and on the Atlantic Ocean, in the 1970s.

I spent three years in Afghanistan as a police advisor. One night, the Taliban fired mortars at the German military base 1 1/2 miles away from my quarters. We spent hours on full alert.

I carried a Bushmaster M4 that had the three shot burst option, which is more than a certain pol did. I shot the M249 and M240 machine guns.

The night before I flew down to Kabul to rotate home, the Taliban fired a mortar at my base, hitting about 100 yards outside of the walls.

But no, I'm not a combat vet. Not even close.

__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

I was stationed at Ft. Rucker after Vietnam and while doing the in-processing thing I noticed my DD-214 listed a Distinguished Service Cross among my other awards. Now the DSC is the 2nd highest combat award (right below the MoH) and I don't remember getting one of those. I do have a DFC (Distinguished Flying Cross) so I'm pretty sure some clerk/typist made a mistake. I had the nice admin lady make the correction.

Now if I wanted to embellish my resume I could have kept my mouth shut and gone on to say, Hey, my MoH got down graded to a DSC. That and $3 would get me a cup of coffee. Combat vets don't do that. At lease I don't.

Hell, maybe i did get a DSC and the citation got lost in the shuffle. Naaa!

OK, so I just checked that in Nam 4 US Navy Hospital Corpsman received the CMO.
Were they in combat? No, they received the MOH without using any firearm!

__________________
Only difference Fool/Mule-ears

Lots of things got lost in the shuffle. Orders issued, never posted to personnel files. Orders issued, posted to the wrong personnel files.

Nearly all of my Vietnam decorations were simply mailed to my home of record (permanent address) along with the award citation and orders for the award. Some arrived months after the events involved, as things matriculated through the levels of bureaucracy.

Most of us arrived in Vietnam as replacements, then assigned to units with requisitions in for certain MOS (Military Occupational Specialty) and skill level (rank, training, special qualifications, etc). When we hit DEROS (Date Estimated Return from Overseas) we processed out, flew home, then received new assignments (again as replacements). We had no idea where we would end up, and no one in our old units had any idea where we might be.

Nearly all record-keeping was manually done; computerized records were way in the future. On a PCS assignment (Permanent Change of Station) we carried our 201 Personnel File, Medical & Dental Records, everything with us from the old unit to the new unit.

Some units kept good records, some were less than efficient. Some awards or decorations were within individual unit authority, some were limited to higher authorities. Tons of paperwork were produced every day, and not all of it ended up where it was intended to be.

Many decorations required a written recommendation supported by a witness statement, reviewed by the designated command staff officer, and approved only by the commander holding that authority. Some decorations were authorized simply by a unit commander's orders. As an example, my Combat Infantryman Badge was awarded by written orders that included about a hundred others listed by name, rank, and service number; probably something done weekly or monthly during that time period. Nothing particularly note-worthy at that time, just business as usual taken care of when the clerical people had the time on their schedules.

__________________
Life of the party until 8:00PM

Brings back a lot of memories.

Right around 1966, the Air Force sent my dad to Fairchild AFB for survival school. Then to Panama for jungle survival.

He didn’t know where or why he was going. He was in communications. A radio man.

Then they sent him to Fort Bragg for jump training. Then he was really worried. They still didn’t tell him anything.

Then he was gone. He was one of the first Combat Controllers in country. Yes he was shot at several times. Even stepped on a Punji stick.

He went again in 67 or 68. Then he AGAIN in 1970. I still remember him walking on the tarmac towards the aircraft. My mom cried. The song on the airport intercom was Skeeter Davis. “The End of the World”.

War changed him. He became hard. He fought PTSD for years.

Because of my experience with my dad, I purposely avoided the Army and Marine Corp when I enlisted. I’m not ashamed to admit it.

I was well behind the lines fixing aircraft during Desert Storm.

So I have a great admiration for those that were “there”. I work with a few that were. They don’t speak of it much. And I don’t ask.

__________________
Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

This has been my experience as well with combat vets.

My older sister's husband was in some kind of special sniper outfit. Maybe 4 or 5 guys, stationed in where ever, far from Nam. They'd get orders, go over to where the "target" was, eliminate said target, then go back to their "safe" place. Sometimes in the States. Usually quite a bit closer, though. His family had no idea where he was at the time. He was never in "combat" just doing that. His discharge papers said Marine Private, or some such. I never saw it. That's all he did. He hated it, seeing the face of the target he eliminated. In his mid 70s, he still hates what he did; but he was a Marine for the USA. Is it combat if you're not getting shot back at? He doesn't care. Like dropping bombs from a flying machine. I guess that's combat? Not getting shot back at? I don't know. That's why I ask. I guess if you shoot or drop bombs it's combat; or is there a difference? There's no paperwork of what "Jerry" did besides serve in the USMC.

__________________
There's a Monster on the loose

My only “combat duty” was when I was in a combat zone during Desert Storm. My unit was support, we repaired aircraft and helos in the field in forward areas. While we were issued side arms and had a Marine security section when retrieving downed aircraft, we were not a combat unit. Occasionally, we experienced rocket and mortar attacks, because we were with a larger unit that was the intended target. These attacks were without any significant results and probably done half-heartedly. The impression at the time was the Iraqis didn’t really want to hurt us, just annoy us, in which they did succeed.
I'm proud of my and my units service there, however, we were not, and and I am not, combat vets.

__________________
"Your other right........."