After years of putting it off, they're finally putting the real ID requirements into affect starting May 7th of this year.


If you're planning a trip that involves flying, you better have you license updated or a passport.

The last time I renewed my license I ended up with a REAL ID in the mail.

Bunch of BS is what it is. I have to further prove that I’m a US citizen to get on a plane.

We can thank the states that give licenses to anyone.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

A "Real ID" doesn't prove you are a US citizen. It just proves you are who you say you are. A passport will work. A US state issued driver's license that qualifies as a real ID just means that in addition to your ability drive, you have established your identity via acceptable documentation. (My wife is Japanese, a permanent resident/green card holder, and has an Oregon "real ID" driver's license.)

There are a lot of people in this world who mean to kill Americans in any way that they can. A passenger plane, as we've learned, is a great way to kill a lot of people. If you definitively know who people are, it is far less likely that a mass murderer is going to get on a plane, whether to use it as a bomb or to get here and develop networks of like-minded mutants on our shores.

It is NOT one world; in many countries where we have people who would kill us, there are few birth records, dates of birth are estimates, names are in 5 parts and often octupules, and there are no biometrics (fingerprints, iris scan, DNA profile, facial recognition photo). Most are one change of planes from a major US destination. In Mogadishu, I could fly to Dubai, Doha, or Istanbul then directly to most major US hubs. Same-same Baghdad, Amman, Georgia, Armenia, Sudan, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Mali, and on and on.

Evil flourishes in the dark and in anonymity.

When there's millions and millions of illegals in the US, and they came from counties that have few birth records, dates of birth are estimates, names are in 5 parts and often octupules, and there are no biometrics and they are already here, how does anyone know those people are who they say they are? Then, we find out, through DOGE, that the US .gov gave millions social security numbers, have driver's licenses, and even allowed to be in LE. What's the point of "REAL ID"?

It seems some are more equal than others.

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Thread Killer.

Biometrics, especially fingerprints and iris scans at every point of contact for employment, documents, banking, emergency hospital treatment, driver's licenses for illegals (where those are allowed) provide a starting point for internal identification which is also useful for external identification through a variety of means, including battlefield forensics, human sources, and a host of other international information sources.

DOGE fired nearly the entire field operations staff of the NNSA then had to very quickly find and rehire them - pardon me if I don't rely on them much for complex issues.

This is correct… as long as you have a valid admission to the US, you can get a Real ID.

I’ve been listening to people complain regularly about Real ID for the past few weeks, and then have to tell them it is only for travel WITHIN the US and entrance to some Federal buildings… not for entry into the US.

But the arguments about it have gone on for the past 2 or so years. Everyone wants to tell us that the logo on their license means it is an enhanced license. Nope… only 5 states have them, and I’d see MRZ lines on the back of it. We had a guy from a less busy port send us an email telling us about Real ID… we all looked at one another shocked that he felt we didn’t know anything about the program. Unfortunately, there are people who don’t take the time to understand changes in policy, inside and outside of the government.

Personally, I wish the enhanced license program was funded to the states for implementation… then have Real ID as the default with non-Real ID for cases that don’t fit into the other two. That way people could get a WHTI document easier for travel instead of just arguing about what the little gold star on their license means.

I get asked about upgrading to Real ID each time I renew my license. And I tell them no, each time. It’s only $25 more which I waste that much without hesitation elsewhere, but I already have multiple documents that work (and to be fair, I fly armed when I fly… so it really isn’t that big of a concern for me).

I actually had words with the supervisor at the BMV the last time I went, because the guy behind the counter told me I needed to get a Real ID to come back into the US. I told her that they really need to start understanding the program instead of giving bad information that gets people pissed when me and my coworkers send them inside to confirm their citizenship.

But this is the same location that demanded from a coworker who was born in Puerto Rico that he needed to show his naturalization paperwork. Had his passport on him, and they gave him grief about getting it illegally. Have to love northern ME…

My Navy retired ID is as good as it gets I believe.

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Only difference Fool/Mule-ears

Congress passed the law in 2005. That was three years before we had iPhones. Taylor Swift was in high school. Pope John Paul II Passed.

Any American citizen has had 20 years to comply or either persuade their Congressperson to the alter the law. Failing that, 20 years of deferring enforcing the federal law seems sufficient.

TSA won't accept it if it says "INDEF" on it.

Really? And why is that?

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"Your other right........."

I will use my TWIC card/badge to fly if I need to.

I took care of getting mine two years ago when I renewed my license . I'm not one of those people that waits until the last minute to handle things . If you know it's coming , deal with it .

I haven't been able to get a passport due to issues with my birth certificate.
Going to try for the Real ID or enhanced license and see if their requirements are different.

Originally Posted by vt_shooter View Post
TSA won't accept it if it says "INDEF" on it.


Got my answer: it’s a software issue, the TSA software cannot read INDEF - an alpha in a numeric field. They are working on a fix.

‘Indefinite’ Defense Department IDs Inconvenience Air Travelers, May Be Dropped as Acceptable Identification | Military.com

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"Your other right........."

I’ve had mine for 10 years. How many times have they extended the deadline? lol

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213th FBINA

backwards fly over Nebraska adopted it in 2013... so shame on the rest of you states...

I don't think it is a state issue per se. People have to apply for it. For example, my wife's had a real ID DL since 2008 or so when she was issued her first US DL from Hawaii. She applied for it. I already a Hi DL, so when renewals came up, I just renewed in the old format.

Hawaii must have changed that, though, as I recall a friend in Hawaii telling me his 80 YO mom, born in Hawaii, had to come up with a birth certificate to renew. I think at that point HI DL renewals must have required conversion to a real ID.

When I got to Oregon in 2016, I turned in my non-real ID Hawaii DL, took a written exam and an eye test, and they gave me a non real ID Oregon DL. My wife didn't get around to applying for her Oregon DL until a couple of years later, and they swapped hers, along with an eye test and written exam, for an Oregon real ID DL.

In 2021 (?), renewing my Oregon DL, I took along my passport, paid a bit extra, and got an Oregon real ID DL.

By the way, what is this "enhanced DL" i see referred to above?

Enhanced Drivers Licenses: What Are They? | Homeland Security

Returning to the US last year from Italy, the CBP agent suggested it would be easier to go through the much shorter line when going through customs.

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I’m your Boogie Man, uh huh.

EDL is only available in five states .

I haven't flown out of the country for years, but I have a KTN number. Does that help at customs?

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Fools despise wisdom.

Yes. It most certainly torques me off! Our state charges extra for an "enhanced driver's license." We don't get Real ID. That's a bunch of hooey. I have a passport. I'll continue to use it when I travel. Since I already have a passport, I think the state should give me a "blessed" driver's license at no extra charge. It doesn't cost them much to verify my citizenship and include another image to the license. Just some computer run time.

For that matter, why should I have to pay for a passport? I'm a citizen. There's a mandate to "show our papers" yet the state and country charge for those papers. More taxes, pure and simple.

Grrrrrr....

OK.... I'm over it now.

In Alabama I had to show proper paperwork to have "Veteran" added to my D/L. Since I've done that, I'm curious as to whether I can go to my local D/L office and just have the "star" added without additional paperwork.

When my Texas DL was automatically renewed a couple of years ago, it was switched from a Non-Real ID to a Real ID. I don't know how it happened, as I didn't do anything, and I didn't pay anything. Maybe it was automatic because I have a Texas License to Carry, but I'm not sure. In any case, it doesn't matter, as I intend to never set foot on an aircraft again.

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What, me worry?

Enhanced licenses do work as Real ID. Just like a passport, passport card, Trusted Traveler card, etc.

The reason why it costs more is more things to confirm, more work to do it and more capabilities.

While it may be easy to just show a passport, you do realize that BMV, or whatever it’s called in your state, aren’t document experts. Some people might be able to distinguish a decently made fraudulent passport… others may not. Security program features, which costs money, prevent that. But it also means that the BMV needs to train their people to accomplish those tasks. I personally don’t think anyone should be able to get an inaccurate document anywhere… but it is more of an issue if it is a Read ID or enhanced license.

Enhanced drivers licenses differ from the other options in two big features; MRZ and RFID. Both of those are pretty much international standards for documents. This technology is present in your passport… if it is current. Another reason why it costs more.

Enhanced drivers licenses are beneficial for people that don’t have a need to shell out $130 for a passport. If they need a drivers license, and may go to Canada or Mexico… it might be worth it to spend an extra $30ish for an enhanced, just for the added benefits. Someone that travels internationally by air… they need a passport, so getting Real ID or enhanced drivers license isn’t worth it.

For the “why should I have to pay for a passport,” where is foreign travel in the Bill of Rights? No country in the world “gives” passports to its citizens. While some people think they are paying for THEIR passport, it still is property of the government that issued it. If you were born in the US, a birth certificate still proves you are a US citizen. If you’re naturalized, you’d get a certificate stating as such. While those items can be used for a Real ID, that isn’t the purpose of a Real ID. The Real ID is to be sure that the person it is issued to is the person it is issued to.

The “showing papers” in this argument is specifically for domestic air travel and entering some Federal buildings. Not really Nazi Germany… don’t want to, don’t fly or go into Federal buildings.

If you compare Real ID to WHTI… at least Real ID is going to be implemented. WHTI… I still get people handing my regular drivers license/birth certificate on a daily basis, when it was supposed to be changed since 2009. That’s a piece of legislation I wish .GOV would finally get behind.

Thanks for the link, Mike.

How would that work returning from Europe if enhanced DL is only good for entry into the US from Canada and the Caribbean?

The enhanced DL, available in five states, which allows entry into the US from Canada and the Caribbean, as well as authorization to drive a car, seems to me to be a combination of real ID, state DL, and a US passport card. Sounds convenient, but would be of no advantage to me, though, as I don't enter the US from either region.

Do the Canadians and the Caribbean countries recognize the enhanced DL for entry into their countries?

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Edit: Screwball, thanks for the explanation above, posted while I was writing this post.

Enhanced licenses don’t do a thing in that regard…

That officer was touching on Global Entry with the Trusted Travel Program.

Official Trusted Traveler Program Website | Department of Homeland Security

Global Entry is pretty much a US only program. If you go to Canada, definitely recommend NEXUS. Costs the same, get the same benefits from Global Entry, but CBSA accepts it.

All of the Trusted Travel Programs give you TSA PreCheck and work as a Real ID.

You mean like Washington State? They can even sign up to vote...

The dumbest thing in the world was how during the height of the Covid spread the government didn't postpone the real ID until Covid mostly passed by. I remember long lines and crowded rooms with people packed in there to get their new Real ID because they knew it would be time consuming and a big hassle for 350 million people to go to the tag agency to get one. That probably spread Covid and caused more deaths than any other easily preventable reason.

I had to look it up. Colorado has been compliant since 2012

I stand corrected. You are right I had Global Entry confused with Enhanced.

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I’m your Boogie Man, uh huh.

I don't quite get the "Real ID" thing. They say you will need one to fly or enter government buildings.....BUT, if you have a passport you can fly and enter. The funny thing is, is that to get the Real ID, you have to show a birth certificate, proof of residence, untility bill, etc. Why can't you just show your passport to get a Real ID? It's good enough to fly and enter but not enough proof to get the ID. Typical government dislogic.

I used my passport, and a utility bill, I think. Plus my old, non-real ID DL. Did not need a birth certificate.

Here ya go:

This reminds me of the postal worker who told the lady in line ahead of me that she couldn't send a package to South Korea because "We're still at war with them."

I only use my DL when I check in with the airline. I now use my Global Entry card at TSA. Except the one time I accidentally handed the TSA officer my LTC. He congratulated me, but said he couldn't use it because it didn't have a bar code on it.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

Don’t get hung up on the Real ID license. Passport and other documents meet the Real ID requirements. All the new policy really says is if you want to present a drivers license as ID in those situations, it needs to meet the Real ID requirements.

Again, Real ID isn’t saying you are a US citizen. It is saying “nodpete” is “nodpete.” Passport can do that, but not everyone wants to use their passport as identification. If you want something to say you are a US citizen in a card form, either enhanced license, passport card or another card style document that provides citizenship. A Real ID license is not that.

Non-citizens can get Real ID, as long as they provide legal status in the US. A TN doctor, for example. That is why I can’t look at Real ID and confirm someone’s citizenship from it.

I always explain to people that when I’m processing someone that comes from abroad, I need to establish 2 things off the bat; identity and citizenship.

Licenses, to include Real ID, does the identity part. I can establish that the person in front of me is the one on the card. The Real ID standard made it that states confirm this when issuing one of those documents, which we use in the specific situations already gone over. Prior to that, there were some states with more lax requirements to get an ID.

Being a Canadian with status in the US can get a Real ID… I can’t establish they are any citizenship. Passports do that… and identity, as well. US birth certificate does that. US naturalization paperwork does that. If I get a citizenship other than US, then we need to figure out COA and other stuff, as needed. Could be as easy as asking a question or two (Canadians, for example).

Because a Real ID is state-issued, and is also a driver's license. Your passport does not prove your state of residence. That's why they need additional proof for your driver's license.

That's nothing. I know of ex-pats from the UK who still get dinged for income tax back there on certain retirements. Turns out there is a mechanism to pay all your taxes in the US. All you have to do is fill in the forms, one set to the UK tax authority, and another with the US IRS. The IRS charges a fee for dealing with paperwork that is going to bring more money to our shores. Nope, not happening with most ex-pats.

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Release the Kraken

When I went to DMV to get Real ID, the instructions online were to bring many forms of proof. I waited my turn, plopped a stack of papers on the examiners desk, he laughed and told me just my passport and NCDL were enough. Took me under 5 minutes.

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I’m your Boogie Man, uh huh.

You need a Real ID to purchase firearms in California. There are some ways around it but it's a PITA. If DMV won't issue you one, then there is a problem with your legal status.

Wait a min. For 4 yrs the last administration told me it was one big happy world. Hell , half of Congress and half the Senate are still telling me that. What gives ??????

I like it, wish that was the case here...for public funded pensions. Some people spend their entire career bankrupting states and cities with their bloated pensions, then flee to states with lower or no tax and far less generous pensions after retirement, leaving hard working people behind that work for the dreaded private sector to pick up the tab.

I plan on just driving there.

I did my Real ID YEARS ago when it was first offered. Easy peasy no problem. I did it just because...I didn't really need it because I have a passport.

Today I had to go to the Municipal building for a boat related permit. The DMV happens to be in the same building.

I had trouble getting in the door. The parking lot was filled to capacity....many of the cars outside had people waiting, and of course they were Facebooking as usual.

The building doors were almost inaccessible because people were standing in the way. They were all speaking spanish and complaining in a loud voice.

The lobby was filled with hundreds of people in line to the DMV, with the door closed and an Officer was letting people in one at a time.

The sign on the door said ONLY Real Licenses today....if you bought a new car and had to register to drive it home it sucks to be you.

Once inside I made my way to the Parks & Recreation Dept. and was the only one there. Conducted mu bizness in minutes.

It all reminded me how stoopid people really are.

I went to get mine in Kernersville and they asked me do I fly a lot...I said no more flying for me I had enough of air travel....

They said well you don't really need the Real ID then....so I left.

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Hipcocked & Locked

I've had a RealID driver license for over 15 years. Took 10 minutes to renew it. Don't get all the indignation.

But then I wouldn't be opposed to the creation of "No ID Airline"

The one that really cracks me up is this weird insistence that a birth certificate is evidence of anything. Mine is just a plain form that someone ran through typewriter. No standardization, probably varies by county. Maybe even by hospital. Yeah, the clerk at the DMV is going to be able to evaluate the legitimacy of a decades old out of state birth certificate.

"You need to supply proof of birth."
"Well, I'm standing right here."

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Common sense isn't so common.

Hope you aren't suggesting what it sounds like.

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Common sense isn't so common.

For illegal aliens. They already have enough of your biometrics if you have a photo ID (driver's license, passport, CCL). If you've been in the military, police, teaching, child care, and a host of other jobs, they have your fingerprints as well.

If you use a smartphone, the software manufacturer likely has both.

yeah, in past careers I've had the investigators all over me...

My concern though is singling out certain demographics (not necessarily illegal aliens) for 'extra special' procedures. Eventually everyone is subjected to them. The default will be to assume that everyone is a member of that demographic until proven otherwise.

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Common sense isn't so common.

I've had a Real ID for a few years now, lady at the DMV asked me if I wanted one last time I renewed my license, told her I guess.

My mom was planning on flying back home to Cincinnati end of May. Found out about all the Real ID stuff, and got her a flight back on May 4th. She has a regular drivers license she'll have to update when she gets home.

I just looked it up, and there are mass other forms of ID you can use to fly. None of which my mom has.

Acceptable Identification at the TSA Checkpoint | Transportation Security Administration


State-issued Enhanced Driver's License
U.S. passport
U.S. passport card
DHS trusted traveler cards (Global Entry, NEXUS, SENTRI, FAST)
U.S. Department of Defense ID, including IDs issued to dependents
Permanent resident card
Border crossing card
An acceptable photo ID issued by a federally recognized Tribal Nation/Indian Tribe, including Enhanced Tribal Cards (ETCs).
HSPD-12 PIV card
Foreign government-issued passport
Canadian provincial driver's license or Indian and Northern Affairs Canada card
Transportation worker identification credential
U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services Employment Authorization Card (I-766)
U.S. Merchant Mariner Credential
Veteran Health Identification Card (VHIC)

In coordination with its DHS counterparts, TSA has identified acceptable alternate identification for use in special circumstances at the checkpoint.