From the Columbus Dispatch.
Guernsey County Sheriff Mike McCauley is proposing to sell three antique Thompson submachine guns, commonly known as Tommy guns, to raise money for new vehicles during the economic downturn. The fully functioning weapons were made famous by Hollywood depictions of 1920s gangsters who were known to use them during the prohibition era.

McCauley recently approached the county about authorizing the sale of the guns, said Commissioner Steve Allen. He said McCauley's budget was cut from $2.7 million to $2.5 million this year, and there's no room for the purchase of new vehicles.

The majority of the sheriff's cruisers have more than 100,000 miles on them, Allen said.

He said the commissioners approved the sale, but McCauley is still researching the weapons' potential value. Allen said he's heard the guns could be worth as much as $50,000 each to collectors.

"I think the sheriff is being practical," Allen said. "Right now they're just hanging on the wall, and I think he sees they have a value that could be better spent in the service to his constituents."

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OGCA Member.

Back in the 60's our Chief of Police traded two Thompsons and a Schmeisser for two AR-15's. Like to broke my heart.

Are Police guns on the NFA register??

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Dean
SWCA #680 SWHF #446

This makes me wonder how many submachine guns and machine guns may be sitting around in police storage all over the country. More then anyone would guess would be my bet.

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OGCA Member.

Muddy Boot, While I am sure there are still collectible guns in a number of weapons lockers. A good % of the ones available for transfer to Civilians have already been traded. The 28 overstamps that our local Pd has and the 21 that our sheriff has cannot be sold outside of le depts. It is a shame too.

Agreed, Think of the vast sums of cash that could be raised for fund starved Police Departments and Sheriffs if all of those machine guns and short barreled shotguns could be sold to collectors.

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OGCA Member.

we(my dealer) could do nothing with a bunch of old Reslings(sp) that belong to a PD in OR. Same agency(if I recall) has a twin Browning 50 cal.....real deal, full auto, just sits in the basement.......there was a story to it..some about being liberated in the 40's......widow droped it off to the PD after he passed

my guess is they will only be able to sell them to another agency or maybe not at all.

At one time my local department had two Thompson Model 1921/1928 .45 submachine guns with finned barrels, Cutts compensators, and vertical foregrips, complete with hard cases and 50-round drums, as well as 18 Reising Model 50 .45 submachine guns. They also had a German StG-44, a very rare WWII assault rifle which belonged to an officer who committed suicide in the late 1960's and was given to the department by his widow.
My dad was the armorer for the department in those days and I spent a lot of time in the armory and knew those Thompsons well. If I recall, they had 3 or 4 digit serial numbers.
I don't know if they're still there or if they were traded for more modern weapons, last time I saw them was in the mid-1990's.

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John

A few years ago, the Ottawa County Sheriff discovered he had a Colt M1921 Thompson in the vault. He called Colt, they equipped his whole dept with REAL M-4s, and put the Tommy in their museum. We have stuff that would break your heart, but it will never see the light of day. John

The Sheriffs Dept I worked for in the early 70's sold their TSMGs and Ithaca Auto-Burglar guns at that time to a well known Class III dealer in NM , J Curtis Earl.
Several of the surrounding counties did the same. They all had at least a couple of Thompsons in their armorys it seems. We gave them a good workout before they got sent away.

I do recall seeing a couple of the TSMGs from one of the neighboring countys in his ad in Shotgun News shortly after that.

These were all sold to finance purchases of AR-15 rifles and other more 'modern and efficient arms'.
Nobody could recall ever seing any AR's or anything else coming in.. and the Road Patrol was still stuck w/ old 6" barrel M&P's carried in Hunter Holsters loaded w/ 158gr RNL for as long as I was there. Politics as usual.

my department had a 20's era tommy gun that had been with the dept.since the 20's...beautiful and well maintained...functioned perfectly...the new police chief that came onboard found it..."offensive" it was sent to the scrapyard and cut into pieces...the chief did his 5 year stint here so he could tap into the retirement system and then left...good riddance

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SWCA#2208
KK4EMO

At one point the Columbus Police Department had a BAR they had picked up of a motorcycle gang. At least that was their story, I never understood what a motorcycle gang would want with a BAR though. I used to do volunteer work at the gun shop at Ohio Historical Society. More than once we had someone come in and want to donate their WW2 bring back. Trouble was the Historical Society had way more of that stuff than they could use, there was no legal way to dispose of it once accepted, and no way for someone to make an anonymous donation of a firearm.

We had one volunteer, whose name I do not recall, bring in his Vietnam souvenir. An AK47. As that was the first I'd actually handled I found it quite interesting. That would have been around 1978 and even SKS's were not common then.

It should be a good way for the department to raise needed money for cruisers. I am for it.

When I became the Chief of Police, the department had already bought S&W 5906 handguns. I found we had 3 1928 Thompsons in inventory. Fortunately, they were transferable to civilians. Everyone I asked in the department thought the Thompsons were made safe by locking the bolt back, the same as their issued 5906 slide. Of course, the Thompson fired on an open bolt. Handing out the Thompsons to officers trained on a handgun firing on a closed slide was a BIG safety issue. I ultimately traded the 3 Thompsons for 6 H&K MP-5s and tons of accessories. The ammunition was compatible and the MP-5 fired on a closed bolt, eliminating the safety issue. The Department still has the MP-5s and the values are very high if they sell.

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SWCA 3417 HF 642 NRA-TC

As I have posted, the finest Auto Weapon I ever had my hands on was a Thompson which belonged to the Carlsbad, NM Police Dept.
It came with 3 Drum Magazines and a leather Mag carrying case.
This was a while back, It was for sale, $7500 I think.

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

My department had a couple. Traded those and two S&W M76 sub guns for some AR15s.

NFA weapons in police inventory now need to be registered with the Treasury Department, a fairly simple process that requires no tax payment. This results in a different category of possession than a Form 4 for an individual owner of a transferable NFA weapon, and the weapon cannot generally be transferred to anyone other than a law enforcement agency.

This has not always been the rule. The National Firearms Act of 1934 came along well after many thousands of automatic weapons and other NFA devices were already in private hands, acquired quite legally. Also, the registration requirements under NFA have changed multiple times over the years, there have been amnesty registration periods, and multiple exemptions existed at various times.

The current status of a NFA weapon in LE inventory today would probably be determining (if possible) the date of acquisition, how the weapon was acquired (purchase, seizure, contraband), and whether or not there had been any prior Treasury Department records of the agency's possession or ownership. Anything manufactured in the past 30 years is generally prohibited from any subsequent transfer to anyone other than a government agency, and would never have been transferred to the agency without Treasury approval and documentation.

Older NFA weapons probably include those originally sold to the LE agency as well as large numbers of recovered contraband weapons, recovered weapons stolen from dealers or in transit, illegally altered or manufactured weapons, and those that walked in the door for surrender when found in a decedent's belongings after a funeral.

I have read that the first major shipment of Thompson SMG's was for the US Postal Police, was hijacked from a railroad car, and subsequently used by the 1930s gangsters terrorizing Chicago.

General Thompson was in a tough financial position after World War I ended before his "trench sweeper" could be put into production. With his own personal fortune heavily invested, stockholders and creditors hounding him constantly, the marketing efforts went into public sales during the 1920s. Farmers, ranchers, private and corporate security organizations could order by mail or through the local hardware store.

Same situation with the Browning Automatic Rifle, another WW1 development that was not completed prior to the 1918 Armistice that was also marketed directly to the public prior to NFA.

Additionally, US manufacturers marketed heavily to foreign governments and military agencies, with many thousands produced and shipped with very little documentation other than whatever corporate records may have been kept (and survived).

Even after NFA, US citizens travelling abroad could purchase all sorts of weaponry and carry or ship it home easily. WW2, Korea, Indochina, and other military events resulted in thousands of souvenirs and war trophies coming home in duffel bags and foot lockers. Many of those pieces were subsequently registered, and Congress has proclaimed amnesty periods several times allowing citizens to register without penalties, but it still happens with some frequency that these things show up in estates, gun shows, and at the front desk of police departments in the hands of widows and surviving children wondering what to do with Grampa's old guns.

Hundreds of thousands of NFA weapons are in the hands of private citizens with proper registrations, but I suspect that those amount to perhaps half or less than the total number existing in the US.

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Life of the party until 8:00PM

The PD in my small southern Ohio home town had two Thompsons, which I have personally seen. No idea if they were 21s, 28s, or something else, as that was long ago. And by now, they have probably been disposed of. But it does illustrate there were lots of small local LE agencies that wanted some SMGs in their armories just in case Bonnie and Clyde some day paid a visit to their communities.

I don't know how many here are familiar with the Tracie Hill book, "Thompson: The American Legend" but this is likely the best work on the subject. In the back of the book is a lisiting of Thompsons sales, mostly to various law enforcement agenices and governments and the dates of the sales. I'm sure it is as complete as the author could make it based on what information was available to him. Nevertheless, the listings are pretty extensive and over many years as I recall, though I haven't looked at it in quite while.

Good to see officials thinking things through. Like the rest of us must. Sell off stuff we no longer need to pay the bills.

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No baby we aint

Interesting. I fired a couple of Thompson's last week, both full auto and of vintage manufacture. While both were fun to shoot, I was much more enamored with the M16's I shot afterward.

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So many S&W's, so few funds!!

Back in the late 60's I was in an NRA youth shooting group that met at the indoor range in the basement of the Police Department. One day after practice a couple of officers showed up with a Thompson. They had 50 round drum mags and the whole kit in a hard case.

We asked if we could stay to watch. We got a few "I don't know.."'s then I said we'd clean up the brass for them. SOLD! Man that was impressive to a bunch of kids at the time.

I found out later they had six of them when I wandered into their armory one day.

M16 is a fine gun but just doesn't have soul like a Thompson.

These guns and many others are Transferable! There is one transferable 1928 is an sheriff's locker out West that was used in the "St Valintine's Day Massacre!

Normal 1928's without special history or military acceptance marks were $55,000 retail 15 years ago, the price has skyrocketed since then! My best friend's uncle had three, A civilian 1928 w/100 round drum, a British Navy 1928 with six 30 round stick mags (all broadhead marked) and a Savage M1A1 w/one 20 round and several surplus 30 round mags. After his death, in keeping with NFA regs, they went to transfer one to each son. But they couldn't find the M1A1! It was missing for almost two years, when one day, one of the sons was in the farm's workshop and dropped a tool. When he got on hands and knees to retrieve it he saw a large inner tube stapled to the bottom of the bench' It contained the M1A1, un cocked with a loaded 20 round mag seated with 3 loaded 30 round magazines inside the tube. a M-2 fighting knife was stuck above the tube to insure the gun was readily available! The dad had been captured during the "Battle of the Bulge" and had vowed he would never be taken alive again. He was an outstanding citizen, and never gave anyone reason to arrest him, but his PTSD never ever went away!

Ivan

My first LE agency was a small sheriff's office. The chief deputy carried an M2 in his patrol car.

The department I retired from owned several Reising sub guns.

LoboGunLeather mentioned Thompsons and the post office. There were a series of robberies of railroad mail cars in the 1920s. US Marines, armed with postal Thompsons, quickly put an end to such nonsense. Marines, being Marines, were believed to have "forgotten' to return a few of these Thompsons.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Many years ago I had a fellow stop at my gun shop. Wanted to sell a military Thompson. for a hundred bucks...so he could get out of the area. I sent him on his way. Within 2 hours FBI stopped by... I told the agent he went thatta way pooointing west...they caught the guy

BTW Someone said something about all the old full auto stuff the police have. There are a lot of WWII and previous to 68 VN bring backs still out there...Some even get shot a bit...Specially on the 4th. I had a postal employee bring me a captured AK with all the papers. It had been given to him by the guy that brought it back. He needed a mag for it. Loaded a 5 rounder for him took him to my 300 yard range. He shot a couple of rounds...handed it to me and said you want to try it. .Yep did it's duty.. When he realized he had a machine gun he didn't even want to touch it again. know where it went and sure it's still there...hanging on the wall...maybe

My father worked for the ODFW as a Game Warden for 30+ years. Often, he would be working with a member of the State Police's game division. On one such occasion they got a call that an escaped murderer was on the run in the area, armed and very dangerous. They were told to block one of the forest roads near them that he could have used to get away. When they got to their assigned position, The Trooper parked the truck across the road. They got out and he moved the seat back forward. He reached in and pulled out a Browning Auto5 and loaded it with slugs. Then he reached in, pulled out an M2 carbine and 2 magazines and handed them to my dad. His instructions to my dad: "If I start blasting, just hose him down, both mags. I'll wait in front of the truck, you go hide in the trees next to the road." Luckily, the guy was caught without bloodshed 50 miles away from them. After they got the all clear, my dad convinced his buddy to let him shoot it, just to try it out. He said it was fun.

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The best I can with what I got

I recall a sheriffs department that had 2-3 Tommys that they couldn’t sell. They wanted to do the same as this department. Their solution was a “donation” day fund raiser where locals would come to their range and pay to shoot the Tommys. I believe it was an annual event for about a dozen years.

I commend the sheriff for trying to make up for the shortfall, but it is not his problem. When the vehicles fail, and the dept. cannot respond, it will be on the heads of the political leadership. Leave it at that

Wonder how that sale went 14 years ago ?

Ha! Caught in the Time Warp again!

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The best I can with what I got

You can bet the cars they bought with the proceeds are already worn out.

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Live long and prosper

"It's just a jump to the left
And then a step to the right
Put your hands on your hips
You bring your knees in tight."

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