I found this gun for sale here in Switzerland.

Caliber is 8 mm Lebel. I thought it's maybe a nice piece of history for the forum-members.

Brand is Orbea, the price would be CHF 200.-- = US$ 180.--



Swissman

That looks like a pretty faithful copy of the S&W. I have read that some of these Spanish copies are pretty decent, and others are just junk.

If the price was low enough, I might buy it. Otherwise, I would save my money for the real thing.

What's with the top screw on the sideplate? It looks like a rivet!

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You're shy a few manners.

You might want to check which cartridge it actually uses. The 8mm Lebel is a bottle-necked rifle cartridge that was developed in France. I also wouldn't waste my money on an Orbea revolver. I think they are junk.

I remember when Southern Ohio Gun was selling a bunch of these in .38 Spl. They said they were for black powder only! I'd be very careful with an Orbea!

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Old paratrooper in NC

There are two cartridges colloquially referred to as 8mm Lebel! One is for the Berthier/Label rifles.

The second is a revolver cartridge for the French "Modele d'ordonnonce" adopted in 1892 and used by the French clear into the 1950s. A few of these were brought back from Viet Nam as war souvenirs during that war.

Swissman has always seemed to be quite knowledgible, not good to question him about something like this.

BTW, Nice revolver Swissman. All serious S&W collectors should have at least one of the better Spanish copies of a Smith IMO.

I think the French bought some of those in WWI., hence the chambering. Most were probably in .38 or .32.

I'd definitely be leery of firing it with modern ammo.

The modern Llama and Astra revolvers were much better quaity, metallurgically. I still wouldn't buy one, though.

Still, this is an interesting gun, with Swissman's usual excellent photos.I enjoyed seeing it.

T-Star

[QUOTE=T-Star

Still, this is an interesting gun, with Swissman's usual excellent photos.I enjoyed seeing it.

T-Star[/QUOTE]


T-Star, it`s not my picture. That`s the picture from the shop, that offers this gun. I found it in the net and posted it here in the forum. I won`t buy this gun, but it`s a nice piece of history.

Swissman

Not sure about revolvers, don't recall ever seeing a reference in all the years of study I have done, but during WWI the French did buy many thousands .32 ACP caliber Spanish semi-automatic pistols from many small shops. These were all of the type commonly referred to as "Ruby", regardless of who made them.

In addition to the French in WWI, during WWII the Germans bought Spanish pistols for their military, both Astra 400 and Astra 600 models. The 600 was designed to German specifications, and ALL Astra 600 pistols were made on German contracts. Germany also imported many Star pistols from Spain after WWII which were issued to the German Police.

"There are two cartridges colloquially referred to as 8mm Lebel! One is for the Berthier/Label rifles."

"The second is a revolver cartridge for the French "Modele d'ordonnonce" adopted in 1892 and used by the French clear into the 1950s."



I had never heard of the 8mm Lebel revolver cartridge. That's what I like about this site; there is a great amount of knowledge here, and I'm always happy to learn something new. I still wouldn't waste my money on an Orbea, but that is my personal preference.

In WWI France bought over 450,000 revolvers from Spain. There were three makers: Orbea and Trocaola, Aranzabal y Cia made copies of the S&W M&P, although the internal mechanism was different. Garate y Anitua made copies of the Colt New Army. All were in Cal 8mm, the same round used in the French Mle 92 revolver. Fiocci makes the round today and if the Spanish revolvers are in good condition, they are safe to shoot with this ammo. These revolvers are usually referred to as '92 espagnols'. For more information, you can consult French Service Handguns, 1858-2004 by Eugene Medlin adn Jean Huon. I believe it's still in print. For Francophones, there's a French language edition also.

Orbea also had a contract to supply a fair number of .455 top break revolvers for the UK during WW1.

They were supposedly one of the better makers of Spanish revolvers and were in business a long time. Some of their revolvers saw action in the American Civil War.

Apparently they were one of the casualties of the later Spanish Civil War though, and didn't resume production after Franco took over.

The 8mm Lebel revolver round was extremely popular in Europe for many years. I have one of the St. Etienne (sp.?) guns that was carried by the police in Bastia on the island of Corsica.

P.S.,

This may get the award for the oldest revival of a thread @ just over 4 YEARS!!

What picture?

Policerevolvercollector; Very interesting. The Mle 92s are very well made. I think Corsica is part of France, wasn't Napoleon from there?
After they got rid of their revolvers, msot of the French police forces used 32 ACPs of various kinds for quite a few years.

The Gendarmerie recently made a very unfortunate foray into the Beretta 92, made under license. I think Manhurin made the parts and St Etienne fitted them. They were a disaster. They couldn't get the metallurgy right. A few years ago the Ministry of the Interior bit the bullet and equipped all their armed units with the SIG P 2022, which I understand has worked a lot better, despite having some unfortunate Gendarme put his in the microwave to dry it out, which resulted in the plastic frame melting into a puddle. (Wonder if this has ever happened to a Glock?) There are pix, somewhere.

St Etienne is the correct spelling. The intial E should have an accent like this: è, but the French usually don't put accent marks on capital letters.

Thank you sir for the great information!! One of these days, I'll post a few pic of the Mle 92.

All the best,
Charles

Here are pictures, right side and left side, of my Mle 92 revolver.

Attached Images

	DSC01282.jpg (36.0 KB, 36 views)
	DSC01283.jpg (33.8 KB, 40 views)

Colin,

Did you get my PM?

Charles

Yes, I think our PMs crossed. Check my latest and the pictures of my Mle 92 against the pictures of your revolver.

Nice to see you Posting, Swissman.

Here is my Bastia Police revolver:







Charles

I bought one of those. The Bbl. is marked ".cal. 38 Largo" (Long) It is also marked on the grip strap "Policia De Provincia De La Buenos Aries"

It seems very well made. I really doubt that it was intended for a .38 SPL BP ctg. They just aren't old enough. .38 Colt Long is much more likely. (i.e. largo/long) I think the BP notice in the ad was just to keep SOG legally blameless. Since a .38 SPL will chamber I'm sure SOMEONE will try a .38SPL +P or +P+ in one.