Car problem

cobra44 · #1 08-04-2009, 01:41 PM

Hello
I have a 2000 Lincoln Town Car that blew one of the spark plugs out.
I bought a re tapping tool, but the hole was damaged too badly to fix.
I need to use something to fix the problem. I really do not want to pull
the head off of the car to re thread the hole.
I was told that a heli coil (not sure of spelling) would work. I am
concerned about the metal particles falling into the cylinder. I am not
really sure how these repairs even work. I checked on a product called
Time Sert, but the 400.00 cost for the kit is kind of high.
Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Spotteddog · #2 08-04-2009, 01:53 PM

In order to be done properly, the head has to be pulled. From time to time I've seen it done "improperly" (on engine) and would have to estimate the success rate @ no better than 40%. Part of the failure rate number is related to not being able to get all the dunnage out of the chamber. In some cases, the helicoil (extremely hard material) breaks and falls in, which can cause untold trouble. I've no experience with the other product? I'd only say, if your going to jerk the one head for the job, do BOTH heads and have the valve train freshened up.
Good Luck!

2Loud4You · #3 08-04-2009, 01:57 PM

If you're going the cheap route a Heli-Coil is your best bet BUT you have aluminum heads so it may hold or it may blow out again. I would rotate the engine over to TDC on that cylinder then use Vasoline on the tap to catch as much of the threads as possible. After that get a good Shop Vac to suck out the rest as best you can. Clean up the threads with some brake clean to get all the vasoline residue off and install the Heli-Coil with Loctite. Use anti-seize on the spark plug and hope for the best.

Marksman · #4 08-04-2009, 02:14 PM

You will need to pull the head, the reason being that Heli-Coil inserts have a little tail like projection that allows them to be driven into the hole. After the insert is seated the tail is broken off to allow insertion of the spark plug. The insert is made of stainless steel and is hardened, not the kind of stuff you want in your cylinder.

sar4937 · #5 08-04-2009, 02:17 PM

Lisle tools sells a reverse tap set for late model ford OHC's. It is used to restore the threads by threading from the combustion chamber http://www.etoolcart.com/sparkplugho...is65900.aspxut. I know it's not cheap, but there may be a shop somewhere that would do it for you. The chips are a problem, we always used wheel bearing grease to keep the chips on the tap. I'm sure we lost some. The engine probably has aluminum heads. Head removal is expensive and requires tools to deal with the timing chain, usually gets the complete two head and chain removal.http://www.handsontools.com/Lisle-65...rd_p_6895.html

M28 · #6 08-04-2009, 02:21 PM

The Heli-Coil is a wonderful thing and I've used it succesfully repair stripped spark plug holes in aluminum motorcycle heads.

I understand your reluctance in pulling the head, but I think it's the best course of action.

Brian~

M28 · #7 08-04-2009, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sar4937

Lisle tools sells a reverse tap set for late model ford OHC's. It is used to restore the threads by threading from the combustion chamber ohttp://www.etoolcart.com/sparkplugholerethreaderkitlis65900.aspxut. I know it's not cheap, but there may be a shop somewhere that would do it for you.

Interesting. Is this a recurring problem with the late model Ford OHC's? I'ver heard of more than one with this particular issue.

Brian~

2Loud4You · #8 08-04-2009, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M28

Interesting. Is this a recurring problem with the late model Ford OHC's? I'ver heard of more than one with this particular issue.

Brian~

Yes, we had one guy with an F-150 who blew his plug out. He opted for the Heli-Coil fix with our warning it may not hold. Two weeks later he was driving down the highway when it blew out again, he kept driving but the coil was still sparking. Well with an empty hole raw fuel was spewing out. His truck burned to the ground. He was actually happy about it, said he was tired of the truck and now could get ins. to pay for it!

Landpimp · #9 08-04-2009, 03:02 PM

just a dab of JB Weld.......it will work once....but sell it before it needs new plugs

sar4937 · #10 08-04-2009, 04:27 PM

Internal Thread Chaser I can't receive PM's at this terminal. If the plug is removed and the threads are damaged, if I remember correctly you can use this. Note: there is a limit to what is saveable. We always did the head job.

Spotteddog · #11 08-04-2009, 04:56 PM

Try the JB Weld and a cash for clunkers trade in.
I hesitated to suggest that, but it's something to consider?
The reason this happens far more often than in the past, is due to far more use of aluminum heads than in the past. And far longer spark plug life anymore, leaving the threads undisturbed. Last, copper anti-seize rarely being applied to the threads during replacement. I did an experiment back in 84' on a 5.7 (350CID) 4 bbl. Chevy Impala squad car testing spark plug life. Even with it having an early OBD with a carburetor, I got 118,000 miles out of the OEM spark plugs in severe service before one plug failed. That's what I meant about infrequent service intervals causing seizing problems. I'd never have tried that test had that engine had aluminum heads!

truckemup97 · #12 08-04-2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Landpimp

just a dab of JB Weld.......it will work once....but sell it before it needs new plugs

Use the JB Weld, then get your $4500 for a new one from the .gov

Well Spotteddog, I guess great minds think alike!

Bat Guano · #13 08-04-2009, 07:49 PM

Have done heli-coils on two Toyota 22R engines; one at the curbside on my daughter's pickup, and had one done by my local mechanic. In both cases the cure took and both have been going strong since.

Queasy operation, though. And what I think about aluminum heads isn't printable. ...All because some fumblefingers prior to me couldn't change a plug properly.

Landpimp · #14 08-04-2009, 08:49 PM

you guys took my BS smart arse comment and made it make since......darn you all

OEM plugs, anti seeze......in 30 or so rigs, never had a stuck plug.....but they all had cast heads

our 99 and 2000 Cruisers do though and the plugs are 100K type, anit seeze baby

(but then again, they are Toyota's)

Grayfox · #15 08-04-2009, 08:59 PM

Ford has had a problem with this. Most often caused by the last guy who put in plugs and over tightened them. It doesn't happen alot, but it does happen often enough that Ford came out with a fix.
Take it to your Ford dealer. They have special tools to thread the hole and install a special hardened insert to repair the threads. It'll probably cost you a couple of hundred, but the repair will be permanent and it will be right.
In the meantime, leave it alone. If you bugger up the hole they may not be able to fix it. Then the only option is to replace the head.

rimfired · #16 08-04-2009, 09:00 PM

The new girlfriend, nee spouse, had one. Helicoils.

Then the junkyard.

But it was fun being "handy" then.

cobra44 · #17 08-04-2009, 11:32 PM

Thanks for all the replies.
I really do not want to trade in a 70,000 mile mint car to the cash for clunkers program. I really do not want a new car.
I found a bunch of reviews on several of the fixes, some of them not so good.
I called Ford as suggested. I know a guy that works there (I did not know this before). He said that he would bring the tool home for the week end and I could use it, or he would do it for me at a really good price.
This is the process that Ford approves for the repair.
Looks like I will be back on the road.
Thanks everyone!

oldRoger · #18 08-04-2009, 11:41 PM

I think I would take the Dealer Route, at least get a price from them. I have used Helicoils in a number of Alum castings where I could not get replacement parts (I used to work on English Sports Cars) I always thought of it as a Hail Mary Play. And I have done, and seen done the wheel bearing grease thing, I do not think it’s a great idea, and the trust factor would not be there.
Lots and Lots Anti seize and Never Seez but it’s a little late for that. I use it on guns.