Let me start by saying this is not in the least intended to be a South bashing thread.Just a Northern guy trying to understand the Southern perspective.
I've heard people here and elsewhere say the civil war was basically illegal, that the Confederate states were perfectly within their rights to secede and that forceing them back into the Union was wrong.
Being from the north I have never heard what gave them the right to secede.I have always assumed the Confederate states, much like the founding fathers,just didn't like what was happening and decided "we're out of here".Was there more to it than that?
Was there some legal basis in the Constituion,Federalist Papers or some of the other rightings from our founding that allowed for secesion?Did they feel what was already happening was unconstituional and that gave them the right to break away?Or was it just a decision they didn't want to be a part of the United States anymore and Natural law gave them the right to leave?

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Chad

I have always thought that like the Founding Fathers, they decided to
"dissolve the political bonds which have connected them with another", unlike the Men (and Women) of 1776, they failed to gain foreign recognition and aid, hence the Confederacy is a Lost Cause. I recall "Through A Glass Darkly" the Professor of Constitutional Law I studied under in college refering to a Supreme Court case in which SCOTUS declared the various acts of succession invalid and said the states of the
Confederacy had never left the Union.
There was the argument raised by John C. Calhoun and others at the
time of the "Nullification" crisis in the Jackson Administration that the
Constitution was a "compact of states" and a state had the right to
"nullify" a federal law it found odious. I note the Constitution was not ratified by state legislatures by by specially convened ratification conventions, hence the argument that it was a "compact" between states
rests on shaky grounds.
I was told the Confederate Constitution provided for the right of secession but I have read it several times and can find no such passage.
My short analysis-the Confederates gambled-and lost. As Macchiavelli said in "The Prince".
"Might Makes Right"

I guess the main point was that the Constitution neither permits nor prohibits states from leaving the Union.

Lincoln laid out the key points against allowing secession in his first inaugural speech:

Lincoln speech

A more detailed view of the case against secession can be found here:

The Claremont Institute - The Case Against Secession

Personally I think the Southern states had every right to leave the Union, but obviously that point of view did not prevail.

The Southern states were within their rights to secede from the union.

Several of the ratifying states put language in their ratification statements which said (not necessarily in these words), that their entry into the union was voluntary, and they could also secede if they found it necessary to do so. Among these were Virginia, New York, and Rhode Island. They feared oppression of a too-strong central government.

We should also get the terminology straight as to the conflict from April 1861 to April 1865.

First, it was not a "civil" war. A civil war occurs when a faction of a country seeks to overthrow the existing government, and replace it with one more to the liking of the overthrowers.

Second, it was not a "war between the states". No state declared war on another. For example, Indiana did not declare war on Tennessee, and Georgia did not declare war on Pennsylvania. The government of the United States waged war on seceding states. They were not in rebellion.

The conflict was a war for Southern independence. This is the same war that was conducted by the original thirteen colonies starting in 1775. They sought independence from an oppressive English government.

In fact, Abraham Lincoln's predecessor, James Buchanan had let several of the Southern states secede without taking any action against them.

With the exception of Robert E. Lee's incursion into Pennsylvania, resulting in the Battle of Gettysburg, the Southern states fought a defensive war. In fact, Lee was advised by several of his top generals, and members of the Confederate government, that an invasion of the North would be the undoing of their cause. Lee's objective was to get the North to settle the war. He did not invade Pennsylvania to gain territory.

PS - I'm acutely aware of the raids in Kentucky, and battles like Perrysburg. However, these were more of a tactical nature, and not for strategic military conquest.

That's where it will wind up after the usual suspects arrive. Usually before we even get to page 2.

Popcorn anyone?

Bob

Oh no.
Not again.

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Lost it all in a boat accident

Lord, please make it stop!

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Georgia On My Mind

I'm sure there was a widespread sentiment that we left the British Empire and we can leave the United States too. Here in Texas, there is a "legend" that when the Republic of Texas entered the Union, that they had the right to secede. Don't know if that changed in 1865. It is also said that we (Texas) can split into as many as 5 states.

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Wayne
Torn & Frayed

Suggest you go the history section of the public library and read up on it ....... then draw your own conclusions.

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Laus Deo! <><

Hawaii is still fighting the good fight: Protests planned for Hawaii's 50th anniversary - Yahoo! News

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I mean, you feel me....

War's over. South lost.

David

What is this "civil war" you speak of? Are you talking about the War of Northern Aggression? Where the criminal Yankees raped, looted and pillaged the warm and friendly southern states? Its all in your perspective.

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Dick Burg

[That's the one.That's what I'm looking for.

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Chad

It is? When did that happen? You must be a politician.

Makes you wander what our country would be like if it was split. From what I've read some southern states refused to send troops to fight in the war because they also feared the confederate states constitution and was afraid it took too much power from the states itself. It was almost like each state wanted to be on it's own.

Nah, I just don't harbor grudges over things that happened before I was born.

Historical speculation is fun, but pointless. Lots of things could have happened if the war hadn't ended the way it did, and lots of nasty things did happen because the war ended the way it did, but rehashing old grievances accomplishes nothing.

As I said, war's over, South lost, move on. We've got enough problems on our collective (pun intended) plate today without borrowing problems from the past.

David

No southern states refused to supply troops to the Confederate cause, although a few would only send supplies to their OWN troops in the various armies.

Here is an interesting fact. Jefferson Davis was captured at the end of the war and was held prisoner for about two years and then was released.

Why was he never charged with treason? I don't have the exact quote, but Salmon P Chase, the Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court from 1864 to 1873, advised against trying Davis, as he felt that the Supreme Court would decide that he was innocent of that charge and it would be best for the nation to leave it alone.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

I agree David, studying history is one thing, but arguing about the things we can't change is pointless.

I truly hope I am wrong but think we again are on the brink of some sort of insurrection and our regional differences will be overlooked for a common cause not yet totally defined. Brunswick stew and New England clam chowder will be shared by all.

It was more over State's rights than anything. Same thing the Federal Government has always done (impose on State's rights) only I guess those folks just couldn't handle it. Or wouldn't handle it. It is something that after 144 years, it still stirs some emotions up when it's mentioned. It's hard to imagine what this continent would be like today if the South had won.
For now, I'm just proud to be an American. (and Southern)

I highly recommend that you read this book for an understanding of why our states are sovereign and joined a union freely with no stipulation that the union was permanent. Most folks do not know that some New England states wanted to secede because their economic interests were being hurt
by the Federal govt's trade policies.
Amazon.com: The South Was Right! (9781565540248): James Ronald Kennedy, Walter Donald Kennedy: Books