I was at my dealer's place today. He had told me about some confiscated firearms he had bid on at the Sheriff's Dept. the other day. Turns out that he ended up trading some new ARs to the department for the cache of firearms. He was showing me the pics on his computer (they are not in his possession yet). All of them were used during the commission of a crime. At least 40% of them had biohazard material on them (blood, etc.) that was clearly visible in the photos and they were tagged "BIO". Anyone ever bought a firearm that you knew was possibly used to murder or wound someone during a crime?

Maybe I'm just superstitious, but I would think there's some bad karma attached to that gun. It's kind of irrational but I wouldn't want it. And I don't think I'm the only one who feels this way. I know a guy who's brother commited suicide using his off duty gun. When the investigation was done and he got it back he immediately tried to sell it and had a real hard time getting rid of it. I think he wound up basically giving it away.

Granted I also own a M1 Garand, M1 Carbine and Walther P-38 that are all World War 2 vintage. There's a real good chance each of those weapons has a body count. But they weren't used in to commit crimes and I don't know for sure that they were even fired in anger. For all I know they banged around in a truck at Fort Dix or were kept in some German Colonel's desk drawer.

So, no, I personally would not want a criminal's old gun. I'm amazed that they actually resell them. I thought that a gun used in a crime would be destroyed after it was no longer needed for evidence.

I concur, I wouldn't feel right owning a gun that I thought was previously used in some horribly malicious manner, however my feelings on war vintage guns are different. A P-38, K98, P08, M1, M1911, etc. all have historical value, and it seems different than a gun confiscated because it definitely was used to commit a crime.

Had the opportunity to purchase a Colt Trooper around 35 years ago that had been used in a suicide. I declined then, and would do the same today.

I wouldn't have any problem at all as long as it wasn't used to harm a family member or friend. As far as the bio-hazard, I might wear rubber gloves when I cleaned it the first time. The previous owner of the first house I purchased years ago commited suicide in the garage, it never bothered me but my wife gave me nothing but grief once she found out. We sold it when we were transferred to another post. Never looked back.

It varies from state to state and county to county. I have to admit that it was a little "freaky" to see the pics with dried blood on them. Apparently the cleaning is his responsibility. I must not have been freaked out too bad because I asked to have a "first shot" at looking them over when he got them. There were some very nice pistols along with some cheap stuff and a few nice long guns. There was even the mechanical action (just the guts) of a lever gun in the lot along with ammo. Alot of the pistol mags were still loaded with ammo.He had already picked one out that was going to be his "baby". Of course that is until the right offer comes along.

I haven't purchased anything with such a history. However, in certain circumstances I wouldn't be against it.

I would not care to own anything like the Hillside Strangler .357 and gunbelt that is currently offered on Gunbroker (Item # 138493801).

Have you ever seen what blood will do to a blued gun? Blood will eat the bluing right off down to the metal.
As for owning a firearm used in a crime, depends? I think I would buy a firearm that was used by Bonnie & Clyde, or some other famous character (with documentation of course).

__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Of course, the only visible blood in the pics was on the stainless or nickel ones. I guess he'll get to see what he traded all of those ARs for when they get there. He's pretty shrewd. I can't see him being on the short end of the stick on this deal. What surprised me was to see how current some of the dates were on the evidence tags. As recent as '05. They must have been really "cut and dried" cases.

have had two used in suicides, and a couple of police auction guns. and no, it simply doesn't bother me.

I've got a bring back German MP40 that has obvious blood damage to to the finish.

That's a must see! Any pictures?

__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Here is a old S&W model 36 I bought from a Police supplier. It was a Police trade in from the Montcalm Sheriff's Dept. (MI). I don't know if it was Police service revolver, or if it was confiscated, but it has what appears to be "blood stains" on the cylinder.

__________________
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

I bought my 2 1/2" Python from my local gunsmith that he had in on consignment from an insurance company. It had been stolen and recovered. It had a couple of bad places on the finish, but it looked more like maybe it was dropped or something. Not quite a pretty as it once was, but it sure shoots like a Python, and the price was right! Don't know any more history than that.

I think we've done this thread once before. I have my dad's old Victory Model .38, was his duty gun. Don't know if it ever shot any bad guys, but it was used to kill my mother. Doesn't bother me. It wasn't the gun's fault. It was dad's.

__________________
Shoot the CPU, not the monitor

It wouldn't worry me,I mean it's not the guns fault....But the idiot using it.Guns don't kill people do.


Ken

The same line of reasoning could be applied to other things besides guns. How many of us worry about our used car purchase being a hit and run killer? Inanimate objects carry no responsibilty...only the people using them.

I have posted this picture before. I bought this M10-7 from an older gentleman who's father bought it in the early eighties. The seller's son, who had become addicted to drugs, had stolen it from him. He had it when arrested for various misdeeds. He drove directly from the court house to me to sell it. It was even still in the evidence box. On the outside of the box there is a handwritten note: "Caution - Blood stain on gun. (Collected)" There were a couple of very small spots on the right side of the gun that looked like blood damage. I touched them up with some cold blue. I'm not sure what the son was charged with, other than felon in possession, but he got about 20 years.



Paul

The shop I used to practically live at had a bunch of used guns once. Traded the local Sheriff's Office three Glocks for several confiscated guns. I don't know all of what he got, but I know he got a Rossi 12 gauge SxS, a Remington 1100 12 gauge and a Colt Junior 25. I know he got them because I bought them.

I did wonder, kinda casually, what they had been confiscated for. I can see a 20" double barrel or a .25 pocket auto being used to knock over a liquor store, but a 26" barreled woods gun? But, whatever they were used for in the past does not bother me. Is somebody murdered somebody else with one of 'em - the gun didn't do it.

__________________
I always take precautions

Yes I have.
I bought an old WInchester 1200 from a guy who couldn't hunt any more cause he got his liscense taken away for life for repeated game violations. Apparently the 1200 was the weapon of choice for the slaughters over the years. When you see this old boy's record, that gun had BLOOD on it
Gave him $50 for it and got exaclty what I paid for - Swapped it to a Boudreaux (what we call our Bubba's down gere) for three crab traps and moved on.

__________________
Forum consigliere

A gun with a story id more interesting.

__________________
Lost it all in a boat accident

How many own one used in a crime but doesn't know? If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around to hear it does it make a sound?

It's akin to living in a house someone died in to me. If I don't know, it doesn't hurt me. Same with a gun. Would I knowingly own one used in a crime? I guess it depends on the crime. One that some banger used in a drive by, if it was worth having maybe. One that was used by a serial killer. Not so much. I guess it depends on the situation.

Oh, I checked out the auction to the Hillside Strangler gear. Thats pretty wild. That should be one of those hidden auctions. I'm sure the purchaser would catch a lot of heartburn over buying it.

Last spring the county SO was flooded and the stash of confiscated guns they use for training was one of the casualties. They were pulled out after 3 days in the water and were already starting to rust. A deputy friend of mine asked me if I thought they could be salvaged as there were a couple of decent ones amongst the junk. I offered to clean them in return for the chance to buy the nice old .38/44 Outdoorsman that was in the pile. 'Thought it was going to be a deal, but the S&W turned out to have the S/N filed off so it couldn't be sold. I did clean it up for the department though.

__________________
Rick, W0FG
CTR2 68-72

My Hi-Standard 22 Mag derringer was used in a double murder. Had to be execution style killing IMO. This gun doesn't give me the creeps at all. Just an inanimate object that an evil guy used once. I can't wait to shoot it. It has a little Bianchi clip on holster. Nice little outfit.

I recently purchased a pair of revolvers on an auction site that still had the evidence tags on them when I received them. I kind of wish I'd saved the tags on the off chance I ever had an opportunity to track down information on why the Sheriff ended up with them.

I own over 100 ex evidence guns......I figure they get a new lease of life when I get them, some I know what they did, others not......the agency is suppose to pull off the tags that say "murder" "suicide" or what not

I go thru 1000 and 1000's of evidence guns a year, its fun, sad and sometimes very ammusing

also not all evidence guns where even used in a crime, quite a few get droped off at PD's by widows, family's ect.....they all end up as "evidence" guns....

last year a widow droped off over 50K worth of AWSOME guns to the Kitsap PD

alot of other guns are PD trades for stuff, just got a huge pile of Rem Police Mag riots from the WA DOC, they needed new vests

Whether it was used in a crime I can't say, but I bought a 1006 off the classifieds here a couple of years ago that was packed full of blood when I stripped it. It was a FTF, so I'm afraid to know.

I have this old Hi-standard HDM. It was used in a murder. My old friend and captain, (now deceased) was a deputy in colorado around the early 60s. He got a call of a robbery/murder at a gas station. He was nearby and hot on the scene and arrested the perp. At first they couldnt find the weapon. Finaly he went back, got a ladder and found it on the roof.
After the trial the judge gave him the gun. I traded him out of it close to 40 years ago.

I also own this sawed off remington shotgun. It was stolen along with many more from me in a burglary. This one turned up sawed off barrel, stock, and a doc holiday sling. It was recovered in another incident. At first the detective said he couldnt give it back to me because of the sawed off barrel. I went over and screwed off the sawed off barrel and said, "she`s mine".

I think blood does more than eat the finish, it corrodes the metal if left on long enough. Thus I would be very cautious and before buying would probably want to thoroughly disassemble one that shows even the slightest evidence of blood damage.

That said, I side with the ones who say it wouldn't bother me if the firearm was a good deal and I wanted it. I don't believe their are "bad vibes" associated with a gun. After all, when they assemble guns at S&W (or Colt, or Glock, ... ) they don't pick out certain ones and perform a voodoo dance around them to imbue them with evil.

They are all tools that can be used for good or ill. When it comes into your possession, from that day until it leaves your possession, you are the one who decides what use it is put to.

__________________
You're shy a few manners.

I met a man in Georgia once who told me of a S&W 686 he had purchased from a widow, as I recall. Her husband had committed suicide with it, and it had remained in a police evidence locker for a time until it was returned to the family. When he cleaned it, according to him, there remained dried brain tissue that had blown back into the barrel and/or cylinders!

I think I would have passed on that weapon (Hoppes No. 9 & gray matter is an odd combination), but I don't believe that objects are infused with mystical evil by virtue of misuse. If that were the case, we should burn a lot of the currency that passes through our billfolds, since research indicates much of it is tainted with traces of illicit drugs, which kill more every year than guns do.

Sure would be interesting if the life of a average dollar bill could be traced, or even a quarter for that matter! When I was a kid our class toured a coca cola factory. The guide gave us all a coke while he talked. Then he gave a prize to the one who had a bottle from the farthest bottel marked on the bottom. Someone had one from some place in africa!

Wouldn't bother me any. Guns don't kill people, people do.


Cat

__________________
Think for yourself.

The world is full of nice guns that I would like to own, so I can't think of a single reason to spend my money on something with a bloody history. Just not my cup of tea!

I paid twenty bucks for this Colt Police Positive Target in .22 WRF. It came out of a tribal police evidence locker during a sellout, and was the last one left because "you can't get shells for it anymore". I don't care what it did to get there, its mine now.

As has been pointed out previously, many of the guns in evidence rooms were never the instrument of a crime. Some were found, or turned in by little old widows, or were traded for dope, or taken during search warrants for dope or kiddy porn or whatever and since everyone in the house is a felon they wound up in evidence.

I own a bunch of WWII guns from different countries, and probably none of them were ever used to shoot anyone.

__________________
“What you got, ain’t new.”

Never bought one that was used in a crime, but I did sell one to a gun shop that was later used in a crime. It was a .32 Beretta - man bought it and killed his girlfriend and himself. Checked with the police department a week after the crime and they had no idea where the gun was - I'll bet we know where it went.

Holy cow!
Awesome question. I had never thought about it.

My vote goes towards not having a gun used in a crime.

Yes. My first shotgun bought by my dad from a judge
Then it became the victim of a crime,stolen and never recovered A women used it to free herself from her abusive husband. So maybe not really a crime after all.

__________________
SC Army National Guard

Ok, for those of you who say "no, I wouldn't buy such a gun", what would you do if....

You bought a nice gun on the used market and have shot it and enjoyed it for years. You paid $250 for it and now it will easily sell for $500. Then through a quirk of fate you discover that it was used in a crime way back when, before it went back into the gun market all legal and above board and you bought it.

Would you immediately turn it over to the police to have it melted down?
Would you sell it for what you paid for it? (Wouldn't want to profit off a crime gun would we?)
Would you sell it for what the market would bear. (You have a conscience, but it doesn't get in the way when money is involved!)

If you would sell it, would you disclose its past to prospective buyers?

Jus' askin'.

__________________
You're shy a few manners.

No, but I SOLD one that was used in a murder.

Had a 2" 64 that I put on consignment at a local gun store. It was pre-Brady, and there was a waiting period. She picked it up at the end of the waiting period, took it home, and staged her husband's "suicide." I spent about 15 minutes on the stand just testifying that it wasn't already covered with blood when I put it on consignment!

__________________
LEO since 1981.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a crime gun, especially if it's a good deal. I know the history of some of my guns, and some I don't. My S&W .32 was won by my dad in a poker game. My Colt .38 Army Special came from an auction. I wonder what kind of previous life they had?

I don't ask my hammers or axes where they have been, and i feel the same about my guns. They're tools. If they work i really don't care how someone used them before me.

Doesn't bother me at all.

I have one that was used in a suicide.

__________________
John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

My very first Smith & Wesson was used in a homicide in the 1970's in my home town. My late Father was the Department Armory for the Sheriff's Department that he and I worked for. It was in the evidence vault for many years. I don't know all the details and want to keep it that way.

I don't think that I have any but, I do have some auction and pawn shop guns that I really don't know much about.

Some possible input: I have worked my department's burglary/theft and robbery/homicide detective squads, then ran our crime lab, too. I have been to lots of crime and suicide scenes, search warrants, arrests, etc.

I would guess that suicides outnumber homicides 10 or 20 to 1 in most jurisdictions, and firearms are used in anywhere from 25% to 75% of suicides in any given year and part of the country. Homicide weapons aren't always recovered, while suicide weapons practically always are. I would guess that the big majority of the guns with "bio" tags or blue eaten by blood were used in suicides, not homicides.

A big portion of the other evidence guns are stolen items recovered from criminals, found in search warrants and such, but the police departments are unable to locate the owners/victims to return them, because so few people record the serial numbers of their guns, let alone their other property. If they aren't listed on the nationwide crime data base, NCIC, or matched up through some kind of investigation, the department keeps them and either sells, trades issues or destroys them, depending on where and who.

I kept an informal track on stolen guns mentioned in burglary reports for a good while. In less than 10% of stolen guns incidents (percentage of the guns reported stolen) did the victim find and submit the serial number, either initially or later. The average victim will say something like, "It was a pistol, a Colt or Smith and Weston, some kinda .38. I can tell mine from any others, if you find it, because it has a big scratch on the handle," or some such. A lot of victimized gun owners assume they can call the store where they bought it 10 or 20 years ago and the store can or will find the number and give it to the caller over the phone. Not very likely.

I am sure the percentages of stolen, recorded serial numbers is far higher in places that have gun registration laws, but even in areas like that, some folks didn't acquire the gun in a gun shop or store and/or just never register them.

Man, am I wordy!

I have one gun I know was a suicide gun. It was a scarce S&W, on consignment in a gun shop, put there by the survivors' family, who needed the money. Box and all papers. Dead guy bought it new just beforehand and tested the function by putting one round into the ground first; just shot two rounds in total. It got cleaned promptly, apparently, as there are only 2 or 3 really, really small bare specks where the blue was gone. It had a small "F" carved in the bottom of one grip half. A year later, when I joined the sheriffs office I still work for, I found the "F" was the marking of the detective who handled the case. I don't know why they felt it necessary to 'mark' an item that already had a serial number, but that's the way they did things back then. I remember on Perry Mason episodes, Lt. Tragg often testified, when questioned by D.A. Hamilton Burger, the gun in evidence was the right one because, he always said, "It has my mark on it."

Yes, I am old.

Like others have said, guns have no will of their own, they are neither good nor evil. I am not morbid enough to seek out guns with such histories, but if I want a particular make, model and variation of one, and the price and condition are acceptable, I'd buy it.

Confiscated Police guns later released back to the market without any history about it is all speculation on the new owners part. It could have been taken from the hands of a Serial Killer or a Deadbeat Dad. When people see blood stains or finishes eaten away by (assuming blood) the worse allways come to mind. The former owner could have been a little sloppy when hunting. Than somehow have a run-in with the law. Years ago a friend and I were deer hunting and during the field dress process he unzipped his suit a little bit and out plopped his .38 into the chest cavity of the deer. Somehow in the activity it worked away from his holster. It was immediatly covered in blood. I as a supportive friend LOL!

I'm a big fan of those old Perry Mason shows too.

About the investigating officer marking a gun:
My guess is that it was a carryover from the days before serial numbers were required on firearms. As well, criminals will often file the s/n off a gun, so perhaps the police just got used to allways marking one, whether it needed it or not, to ensure that they could positively identify it in court.

__________________
You're shy a few manners.

Let's see if I can remember: RG 38, man murdered wife, Revelation .410 shotgun, guy shot down in the street in front of me before I could stop the perp, (I recently wrote about this one) I frame S&W .38 S&W cal. (with stags) only used to kill one lawyer who got caught cheating on his wife back in the 50's, S&W mod 38 that was used to kill a guy who was trying to kill me in 1971, (not used by me) several murder knives and the infamous "machete of death" that once was used to hack a man to death. (37 times) These are inanimate objects used by whoever for whatever. The prior ownership of them don't bother me. All of these weapons were seized over 30 years ago. After the trial was over they went wherever, most of the time to the judge. I got the I frame from the grandson of a judge.

I haven't kept a gun used in a crime in over 20 years. We are now required by the state auditors office to log in every firearm seized. They are then auctioned and the money goes back to the county. That does not apply to found guns. An example of that is several years ago a partner and I went into a bar having been tipped a convicted felon was in there carrying. We shook him down and relieved him of his weapon and later charged him with carrying after a felony conviction. I made the mistake of saying "I wonder who else is carrying in here?" You could here them hitting the floor. I picked up six that nobody claimed. One of them was a real nice model 10 that I still have. Occassionally a "widow" who wants to "get a gun out of the house" will call. Whoever answers the call gets the gun.

Unless the blood is still dripping off of it, it isn't something that I'd be bothered about. HIV doesn't live long ouside of the body, but if a gun is really clotted up with blood and it bothers you, just clean it off with some alcohol or bleach spray - let sit for fifteen minutes and then flush with regular water. The latter is bad for the finish but is a good way to decontaminate things.