New S&W M&P 45ACP Copper fouling.

earthtone31

earthtone31

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I was wondering if anyone has bought a new gun from a gun shop that had copper fouling in the barrel? I just experienced this I believe for the first time with my brand new M&P fullsize 45acp that had a test firing date of 11/08/14. I really hope theres no bore/rifling damage. I was pissed at first because I only noticed it after bringing it home and began to start a good cleaning of the gun and was able to shine my bore light inside the barrel. I seen brownish/orangesh streaking lines along the rifling and my first thoughts were RUST! So I cleaned the bore like normal with my M-PRO7 Foaming Gun Cleaner real good with a bronze brush and patches but it was still showing some of the streaking. So the next thing I did was go buy some Hoppes Copper Remover and hope it was gonna work. I put a wet patch with copper remover on it and let it sit for a few hours or so and bronze brushed good and reapplyed with wet/dry patches next time and a nylon brush and then cotton mopped it out and it looked like it was gone. So I was very happy with the way the bore looked after all that on a brand new gun. Kinda crazy I thought to myself that this new gun barrel and gun was in that condition. Every other part of the gun is in brand new pristine condition.
 
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Probably just from the test firing after manufacture. I don't know of any gun maker who cleans the guns afterward.
 
I believe that, because of the method used to rifle the barrels on current models, most if not all will show some copper residue. At least my M&P 40 and my Model 69 both did. And it will show up again after you shoot it again with copper jacketed bullets and you will probably get lead smearing with cast bullets. I am guessing that it will get better after a few hundred/a few thousand rounds fired.
 
Thanks for the replies, thats what I was thinking that it was from the test firing and the gun sitting in the store for awhile out on display in the glass showroom shelves. It was the first time I ever noticed or seen that on a brand new gun with one rnd fired in it. I was surprised, and it wasn't easy to remove, I had to buy copper remover or that stuff wasn't coming out with regular MPro 7 gun cleaner and that stuffs pretty good, it knocked it off some but wouldn't completely remove it like I wanted, so good ole hoppes copper remover worked good.
 
If you continue to use a bronze brush with copper removing solvents, you will continue to get blue patches. The blue will be from your brush, not bullet jackets.
 
new guns are often times test fired more than once. some shoot a full mag.
personally Id rather have a dirty gun that has been tested than a virgin gun with issues.
 
Last we were told in an armorer recert, each M&P pistol produced was still being test-fired with 5 rounds from each of 3 different test mags, for a total of 15 rounds, of whatever major maker ammo may be available at the factory. FWIW, this is more rounds test-fired than another major gun maker uses for their plastic guns, according to what's stated in their armorer class.
 
I have no problem at all with it being test fired, I want the gun tested lol. I was just surprised how much copper was in the barrel and how hard it was to remove. I had never experienced this with my Glocks, Ruger, or other S&W guns. Only this M&P. It may have been due to how long it sat in the store, on top of the amount of test firing they may have put through this gun like "you said Fastbolt". Also this is the first time I've ever had to use a copper removing solvent on any of my handgun barrels, I had to this time to do the job, because my MPRO7 gun cleaner wasn't getting it all out like I wanted. I only have to use my bronze brush, mpro7 gun cleaner, hoppes oil after for the finishing job on the inside of the bores to keep them looking like new. Hopefully since I have done this copper removing cleaning to the M&P barrel, I will only have to start back to just using the gun cleaner on it after shooting. I clean my guns right after going to the range, I don't let them sit around for long periods of time without being cleaned thats just how I am. I'm a gun cleaning fanatic type gun owner lol!!!
 
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not to be condescending but - If you arent using a copper remover of some sort when you clean your barrel you arent really cleaning your barrel.

every time you fire a round it accumulates layer after layer after layer of copper residue followed by powder residue followed by copper residue and so on and so on.

all of this is being pressed into your barrel at +/- 20,000 psi.

I can tell you with absolute certainty, that were I to use our electronic cleaner on your barrel after you cleaned it the way you say you do - It would produce a large amount of copper on the steel rod.

I do this at least twice a week on barrels that were "clean" and claimed to be "shot out". Think about it like this - if you shoot 200 rounds at the range - there are 200 layers of powder residue and copper that need to be removed. good luck.
 
WGSNewnan19 said:
not to be condescending but - If you arent using a copper remover of some sort when you clean your barrel you arent really cleaning your barrel.
Click to expand...

Not to be the English minor I was in college 45 years ago, but the OP clearly states he used a copper remover.

More often than not, a gun barrel that has been cleaned down to bare metal will need a certain number of shots fired before it will settle and start shooting it's best. The number of rounds required will vary from gun to gun.
 
MichiganScott said:
Not to be the English minor I was in college 45 years ago, but the OP clearly states he used a copper remover.

More often than not, a gun barrel that has been cleaned down to bare metal will need a certain number of shots fired before it will settle and start shooting it's best. The number of rounds required will vary from gun to gun.
Click to expand...
did not realize the mpro7 was also a copper remover. i was confusing it with another product. my bad.
 
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I don't own any handguns which don't have some visible amounts of copper in the barrels (or brass, as I've used a fair amount of HPJ/BJHP bullets when Rem GS was an issued load in 3 duty calibers and a couple of off-duty calibers). I don't obsess over removing it. Lead, yes, as that can get nasty and affect pressures & accuracy.

Then again, I'm not doing long range match rifle shooting, either, or commonly using ammunition made by other than the major American companies.

Also, I haven't commonly fired more than 15K-45K+ rounds through any particular barrel in the pistols I frequently use anymore. Not like in the older days when I was an avid handloader and trying to wear out my Ruger Magnum revolvers.

I've inspected a few pistols used by a friend of mine (as an armorer) from time to time, as he shoots almost everyday on his rural property and he really puts some high round counts on a number of his guns. I'll sometimes get out a toxic bore cleaner when I scrub out some of his barrels every other couple of visits. None of his barrels have been "shot out" yet, but he's working on it. The nitrocarburizing surface hardening treatment of some barrels probably helps provide for decent service lives in a few of his hard-used pistols. He's been trying to find a way to wear out the barrels in a favored 3913TSW & Colt stainless XSE in recent years, though. He gave up on trying to wear out an older Colt OM after close to 22K+ rounds fired through it after being it had been rebuilt (but same barrel) and tuned by a former 1911 armorer at my agency (now retired), and his attention moved on to trying to wear out other guns.
 
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WGSNewnan19 said:
did not realize the mpro7 was also a copper remover. i was confusing it with another product. my bad.
Click to expand...

Yes MPRO7 Gun Cleaner does remove "most" copper fouling but not if its real stubborn copper fouling thats been in the bore for awhile I believe. So I had to actually buy a Copper Removing solvent that did work much better than just the MPRO7 stuff and that stuff is great gun/bore cleaner in my opinion. Normally all I need to use is the MPRO7 Cleaner and my barrels look great to me with a bore light shining in them.
 
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