My Non RSR Transitional Family is growing! Pics added!!

DCW · Apr 24, 2015

Oops, forgot the asterisk's reference:

* "Transitional" today is so often used for, associated with the RSR handguns - even by supposed experts, as was the case in a recent high-quality gun auction - one wonders if its use now is beyond its proper association.

skjos · Apr 24, 2015

DCW said:
Oops, forgot the asterisk's reference:

* "Transitional" today is so often used for, associated with the RSR handguns - even by supposed experts, as was the case in a recent high-quality gun auction - one wonders if its use now is beyond its proper association.

I think it might be.

In my 3rd gen spreadsheet, I'm still referring to the RSR guns as "transitional", and these non-RSR guns as "pilot" or "interim".

Chief-wahoo · Apr 24, 2015

Yes, and I believe that is probably the right designation skjos, I have letters ordered fom Roy Jinks, so I guess we will see what he has to say.

grif684 · Apr 25, 2015

I refer to the interim, pilot, and AIP pistols as "true transitionals", as they were all actually made during the second-to-third gen transition period in late 1988. I personally consider the RSR pistols as "distributor models", much like todays Talo version pistols and revolvers, as they aren't transitional at all, having been made years after the introduction of third gens. Just my personal take on it...it seems the transitional monicker came from the second gen parts used on the RSR models, probably leading one to believe they were made during the transition period, but clearly not the case. Not to take anything away from the RSR pistols, as they are very limited production, have unique to them model numbers (stamped on frame) and are clearly very collectible today, and much easier to quickly identify by their RSR serial number prefix and unique model numbers.

grif684 · Apr 25, 2015

Question:
Recognizing that a handgun plus its original, properly labeled box equals a more desirable condition than a handgun without its box, are the serial-number prefixes TBS, TBU, TBV,TBW, and TBY likely to have been solely affixed to the transitionals as are the "RSR" prefixes assigned to the, well, the RSR guns?

Thanks.[/QUOTE]

DCW, no, they are not. The serial prefixes mentioned are scattered throughout regular production second gen and early non transitional third gens, and also all semi auto models. So that is to say that just because a pistol bears one of the listed prefixes, it is not necessarily a transitional (or pilot/interim) model, and most likely, not one. I have actually seen a few pure second gen models with the mentioned prefix serial numbers HIGHER than the "interim" pistols that I own.

grif684 · Apr 25, 2015

Hopefully my info here isn't as "clear as mud"!

Chief-wahoo · Apr 25, 2015

Great explanation,,, thanks Grif684

Chief-wahoo · Apr 25, 2015

Thanks DCW, also great info, as soon as I find any more info I will let you know!

skjos · Nov 17, 2015

I have a 3rd gen “true transitional” question, but first a level set:

The true transitionals were classified as either interim or pilot models.

Interim models were "Pre-Pilot Test Production Guns were HAND BUILT with New 3rd Generation Modifications. Guns were built on old frame but have new Novac Beval package and new Three Dot Sight system. Guns are stamped with old Model # and box is marked "Special". (Less than 150 guns have ever been released to commercial sale.)"

Pilot models were "Pilot Guns are COMPLETE first production runs of the New 3rd Generation Auto's. The difference is they are stamped old model # and box is marked "Special". - New Frame's & Trigger Guard - New Grips - New 3rd Generation Modifications - New Three Dot Sight System - Old Markings (Less than 300 ever released to commercial sale.)"

A sales brochure that was attached to this thread indicated there were (4) interim and pilot models:

Model 4690, Product Code #103101 (Pilot), SCSW - 4690 Transitional Gun.
Model 6450, Product Code #103710 (Interim), SCSW - Transitional 645 marked 6450, 1991.
Model 6450, Product Code #103710 (Pilot), SCSW - Transitional 645 marked 6450, 1991.
Model 6590, Product Code #104001 (Interim), SCSW - 4" S 14SH FS transitional 659 marked 6590, also shipped with night sights.

However based on this thread (and others), it looks like there were more true transitional models than listed in this sales brochure:

Model 4590, Product Code #104010, SWSC - 4" S TDA 15SH AS Georgia HP 1st trigger guard.
Model 6450, Product Code #103712, SWSC - 5" S 8SH FS AM, 1985-1988.
Model 6450, Product Code #103719, SWSC - 5" S 8SH AS AM.
Model 6690, Product Code #104051, SWSC - 3-1/2" S 12SH FS AM, 1986-1988.
Model 7450, Product Code #103906, SWSC - 5" B/S 8SH AS Special, 1990.

Now for my question:
Do these unlisted transitional models fall into the interim or pilot configurations; or are they still in a 2nd gen configuration?

- I've seen a 459 that looked exactly like a 5903, and SCSW does mention 5903's with 459 markings, so I'm pretty sure that is a Pilot model.

- The pictures I saw of the 7450, it looked like it was in a 2nd gen configuration with no modifications.

Chief-wahoo · Nov 21, 2015

Skjos, I guess my answer to you would be to review post #10 from griff684, as far as getting more info he is your best bet, everything I have learned about them is from his posts.

Chief-wahoo · Nov 21, 2015

skjos

Here is a scan of a advertisement on Interim and Pilots, for what its worth.

BUFF · Nov 22, 2015

FWIW, I have a Model 645/4506 I bought new in September, 1988. TBR95xx, third gen slide on second gen frame. I have never shot it.

Mikedtkd · May 1, 2016

CAN ANYONE PLEASE HELP!!
Can anyone please help identify if my 659 is an interim or pilot model?
I don't have the original box. But here are some pics. The first picture is recent with new/original grips and the rest are pics with the hogue grips I bought it with.
It is marked 659 but has a 3rd gen frame and many 3rd gen slide features.
Thanks.

Dparker · May 1, 2016

skjos said:
I have a 3rd gen “true transitional” question, but first a level set:

The true transitionals were classified as either interim or pilot models.

Interim models were "Pre-Pilot Test Production Guns were HAND BUILT with New 3rd Generation Modifications. Guns were built on old frame but have new Novac Beval package and new Three Dot Sight system. Guns are stamped with old Model # and box is marked "Special". (Less than 150 guns have ever been released to commercial sale.)"

Pilot models were "Pilot Guns are COMPLETE first production runs of the New 3rd Generation Auto's. The difference is they are stamped old model # and box is marked "Special". - New Frame's & Trigger Guard - New Grips - New 3rd Generation Modifications - New Three Dot Sight System - Old Markings (Less than 300 ever released to commercial sale.)"

A sales brochure that was attached to this thread indicated there were (4) interim and pilot models:

Model 4690, Product Code #103101 (Pilot), SCSW - 4690 Transitional Gun.
Model 6450, Product Code #103710 (Interim), SCSW - Transitional 645 marked 6450, 1991.
Model 6450, Product Code #103710 (Pilot), SCSW - Transitional 645 marked 6450, 1991.
Model 6590, Product Code #104001 (Interim), SCSW - 4" S 14SH FS transitional 659 marked 6590, also shipped with night sights.

However based on this thread (and others), it looks like there were more true transitional models than listed in this sales brochure:

Model 4590, Product Code #104010, SWSC - 4" S TDA 15SH AS Georgia HP 1st trigger guard.
Model 6450, Product Code #103712, SWSC - 5" S 8SH FS AM, 1985-1988.
Model 6450, Product Code #103719, SWSC - 5" S 8SH AS AM.
Model 6690, Product Code #104051, SWSC - 3-1/2" S 12SH FS AM, 1986-1988.
Model 7450, Product Code #103906, SWSC - 5" B/S 8SH AS Special, 1990.

Now for my question:
Do these unlisted transitional models fall into the interim or pilot configurations; or are they still in a 2nd gen configuration?

- I've seen a 459 that looked exactly like a 5903, and SCSW does mention 5903's with 459 markings, so I'm pretty sure that is a Pilot model.

- The pictures I saw of the 7450, it looked like it was in a 2nd gen configuration with no modifications.

Skjos

I recently purchased this very well maintained 745 with the box marked 7450 and product code 103906. Could it be a transitional ?

Thanks and cheers!!!
David

Dparker · May 1, 2016

Dparker said:
Skjos

I recently purchased this very well maintained 745 with the box marked 7450 and product code 103906. Could it be a transitional ?

Thanks and cheers!!!
David

I'm not savy enough to place two pics in one post yet...here is a pic of the label

Cheers!!!
David

skjos · May 2, 2016

Mikedtkd, it looks like a 6590 interim model to me.

Dparker,
The 745 is a little bit of a mystery, it retains all the 2nd gen features, but it is noted on the box as 745"0" like the pilot/interim models, and it has a TBYxxxx serial number. I'm not sure if it can be considered a transitional when it does not include any 3rd gen changes from the original 745, but I'm not not a true expert on these transitionals.

Chief-wahoo · May 2, 2016

7450

DParker, here is a scan of my end label for my 7450, I was told that this was a special run of 100 pistols and to distinguish that they added the "0" to the 745, so not a true "transition" pistol.

Dparker · May 2, 2016

Chief-wahoo said:
DParker, here is a scan of my end label for my 7450, I was told that this was a special run of 100 pistols and to distinguish that they added the "0" to the 745, so not a true "transition" pistol.

Thanks Chief-wahoo...I noticed your special order no is 136 and mine is 156...any clue what may be the difference?

Thanks & Cheers!!!
David

Chief-wahoo · May 2, 2016

No I don't I was just looking at that myself!

Chief-wahoo · May 2, 2016

6450 Added

Just realized from my Original post that i have added a 6450 to my collection!

My Non RSR Transitional Family is growing! Pics added!!

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