Sport II Wholesale Price Increase?
- Thread starter TTSH
- Start date
Like the Apple Lisa? It cost $10,000 in 1983 (about $24,000 in today's dollars) because it had a GUI and a mouse. It also used it's own style of floppy discs to operate (no hard drive at all) which were flaky as it gets. The Apple IIe cost less than $1400 and would do everything the Lisa would do better. But it didn't have a GUI or a mouse. $8,000 extra for a mouse and a GUI? Doesn't seem worth it to me. You could run the same programs for far less with the IIe.
This is just one of 1,000's of examples. Please cite specific reasons the Sport II is inferior if you think that it is. If there are legit issues I'd like to know what they are. But "you get what you pay for" is a marketing guy's dream phrase. It's like "Shampoo, rinse, REPEAT". That one word on shampoo bottles made millions for the companies that used it. I don't wash my hair twice and it seems to come out OK. Why repeat?
I very much respect particular advice but saying you get what you pay for??? Did you happen to notice the price of Japanese cars in the 1970's compared to American cars? The Ford Pinto cost $2,062 in 1972. Forbes has called it one of the 14 worst cars ever built. The Toyota Corolla sold for $2,109 the same year. Were they equal quality? The same year the Chevy Vega cost $2,746. You decide. Did those people buying American cars get what they paid for? Americans went with Japanese cars in a huge way for a reason. Better fuel economy was just part of the reason. Higher quality overall (they lasted far longer than the American cars) was also a big reason.
I'm not saying you're wrong about the Sport II. I'd just like to know why that it's true that the Sport isn't a good choice as a AR-15. I just don't believe that you always get what you pay for.
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There are far better sources than me to give you advice if you are looking to buy any AR above the most basic economy models. Beyond that, I better not say anything more. It's starting to get real ugly in this thread.
I already regret having started it. 
I didn't mean to make it ugly at all. I'd just like to hear actual details on why what you said is true. I just don't believe that you always get what you pay for. There are too many examples where that isn't true. If there's a reason why the Sport II is sub par I'd really like to know what it is.
I would think you might have gathered by the whole point of this thread that I am actually out to buy a Sport II... so why would you think that I consider the Sport II sub-par? I do not go out and intentionally buy sub-par firearms.
The Sport II is, however, a very basic economy model AR. Few people I know would argue that point. It is not a LMT or a Noveske. It does not have any premium features or high end components that I am aware of. But so what? I said I'm in the market for a basic economy model AR and the Sport II should fit my needs for a back-up AR perfectly.
Please go back to the first few posts and understand the purpose of this thread. It was not to argue value or features. It's purpose was to figure out what's going on price-wise with the Sport II... no more, no less.
spad124
Member
TTSH, to get back on track, I seriously suspect that S&W builds and ships many fewer MA and CA compliant Sports than free state Sports. That may account for the lack of Sports at your LGS while Arik is tripping over them. That may also account for the price difference. MA Sports are a different sku.
FWIW I appreciate that you MA gun owners have to go through a lot of red tape just to own firearms. My son recently moved to MA for work. He looked into getting permitted to bring his rifles in from Illinois and decided to wait until he could find a house in NH
FWIW I appreciate that you MA gun owners have to go through a lot of red tape just to own firearms. My son recently moved to MA for work. He looked into getting permitted to bring his rifles in from Illinois and decided to wait until he could find a house in NH
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Thank you for putting us back on track.
I'm sure that is part of the problem. The big MA dealer in question has a great relationship with S&W. If anyone could get more MA-compliant Sport II's direct from the mothership, he could. But he says they're trying everything... but they can't.
This lends credibility to the idea that he is seeking to buy them from distributors (as well as the factory - hence the wholesale price increase his clerk spoke of) and the possibility that S&W is not producing MA-compliant Sport II's in sufficient quantities right now to fill the increased demand. Let's remember that the Sport II is just one AR model they offer and only a small percentage of those AR's need to be MA-compliant.
BTW, another MA dealer posted that he managed to get two of them in the other day. He was all excited.
Two. Not two pallets of them. Two guns. 
They were gone that same day. I fear this post-Orlando panic may last all the way into November and beyond.
spad124
Member
Thank you for putting us back on track.
I'm sure that is part of the problem. The big MA dealer in question has a great relationship with S&W. If anyone could get more MA-compliant Sport II's direct from the mothership, he could. But he says they're trying everything... but they can't.
This lends credibility to the idea that he is seeking to buy them from distributors (as well as the factory - hence the wholesale price increase his clerk spoke of) and the possibility that S&W is not producing MA-compliant Sport II's in sufficient quantities right now to fill the increased demand. Let's remember that the Sport II is just one AR model they offer and only a small percentage of those AR's need to be MA-compliant.
BTW, another MA dealer posted that he managed to get two of them in the other day. He was all excited.
I fear this post-Orlando panic may last all the way into November and beyond.
Another thing to consider is that S&W may build a run of MA compliant ARs and then switch the line to build a run in a different configuration. So, maybe they got caught with the line switched to build, say, a different model of MA compliant ARs, or maybe CA compliant ARs. I understand they used to build runs of revolvers, a run of 4" M29s then a run of 6.5" M29s, a run of nickel plated, etc. No one can predict when a jihadist is going off his meds causing political chaos and increasing demand.
Exactly.
I'm sure that big MA shop I keep mentioning sure wishes they could see the future. 
If they could, running short like this might not have happened. The configuration for the MA-compliant Sport II really isn't all that different than the free state version... just a pinned stock, no muzzle device, no bayonet lug and a 10-round magazine. Just enough to be different.
I do recall way back when that Bushmaster had to stop shipping to MA temporarily due to a shortage of 10-round magazines. Sometimes, it can be as simple as that.
Again friend I didn't mean to imply you were bashing the Sport II. I saw you were going to buy one. That truly was not the point of my post. I'm sorry if I said my point in a way that made you think that. What made me wonder what you were thinking was when you said, "It's a basic economy model for sure... and at best, you only get what you pay for." Clearly it's an economy model. No one would argue that. It doesn't have high end features in any way. But saying "at best you get what you pay for" implies that it is lacking in a particular way. It's hard to communicate over the net and intentions get mixed up from what we mean to say sometimes. But seriously I had no intention of arguing with you about the issue. I really wanted to know why you thought it wasn't up to the job of being the only AR someone owns. I did go into why I think we don't always get what we pay for. It wasn't to argue with you. I was just making a point. Please don't think I meant it in an argumentative way. I certainly didn't.
I'm pretty new to AR's. I have only one - the Sport. I was wondering what you thought about it made it not worthy of being the only AR a person owns. It wasn't me arguing as much as it was me trying to learn from you.
Back on the original subject. I think the AR is bound to go through another round of inflated prices. With both parties now pushing for gun control laws it will only make things worse. Sales were already at record highs for this year. I'll admit to paying too much for my Sport but that was because it was bought during the transition period between the Sport and the Sport II and I was charged with buying my own Christmas present (with money from my kids). That's just how we do things but I needed something to put under the tree.
I seriously would like to know what might cause the Sport (in my case) to not be worthy of being the only AR I have. It was configured just fine for me and all the reviews I saw were positive. I've shot quite a few other AR's that weren't so reliable. So far my Sport has worked flawlessly. I guess I'm still paranoid that something bad is going to happen to it. That's what I was wondering about. I was not trying to argue with you. I tried to make it clear I didn't think you were wrong. I just wanted details. I certainly realize it isn't a titanium allow AR with a can and all coming in at 4 lbs.. I've seen AR's like that up close. I didn't get to shoot it unfortunately. It was full auto too BTW. It was a LEO's duty weapon. The area he patrols is very much a hot spot for possible terrorist activity. They could do a LOT of damage there. I certainly know my Sport is not like that rifle. I just wondered if there was something I should worry about since you said you wouldn't suggest it as the only AR a person own.
Again please accept my apology for sounding like I wanted to argue if that's how it came off. I did not want to argue at all.
I'm pretty new to AR's. I have only one - the Sport. I was wondering what you thought about it made it not worthy of being the only AR a person owns. It wasn't me arguing as much as it was me trying to learn from you.
Back on the original subject. I think the AR is bound to go through another round of inflated prices. With both parties now pushing for gun control laws it will only make things worse. Sales were already at record highs for this year. I'll admit to paying too much for my Sport but that was because it was bought during the transition period between the Sport and the Sport II and I was charged with buying my own Christmas present (with money from my kids). That's just how we do things but I needed something to put under the tree.
I seriously would like to know what might cause the Sport (in my case) to not be worthy of being the only AR I have. It was configured just fine for me and all the reviews I saw were positive. I've shot quite a few other AR's that weren't so reliable. So far my Sport has worked flawlessly. I guess I'm still paranoid that something bad is going to happen to it. That's what I was wondering about. I was not trying to argue with you. I tried to make it clear I didn't think you were wrong. I just wanted details. I certainly realize it isn't a titanium allow AR with a can and all coming in at 4 lbs.. I've seen AR's like that up close. I didn't get to shoot it unfortunately. It was full auto too BTW. It was a LEO's duty weapon. The area he patrols is very much a hot spot for possible terrorist activity. They could do a LOT of damage there. I certainly know my Sport is not like that rifle. I just wondered if there was something I should worry about since you said you wouldn't suggest it as the only AR a person own.
Again please accept my apology for sounding like I wanted to argue if that's how it came off. I did not want to argue at all.
I tried really hard to phrase the several points you talk about so as to avoid any misunderstanding or confusion... but it's obvious that I was not clear enough. There is nothing wrong with the Sport I or Sport II that I am aware of. They are perfectly good entry level AR's and the fact that I just put myself on a waiting list for one today should set your mind at ease. If I was aware of any serious deficiency at all, I wouldn't have done that. But that doesn't make the Sport I or the Sport II a high-end, full-featured, fully-tricked-out, top-of-the-line AR any more than a Charter Arms Bulldog is a Colt Python. That's just the way it is. It's a very good basic AR. It is not a $2,000 tricked-out LMT (which I will buy the same day I win the lottery).
And I'll repeat again that I am far from the best person to give lessons on what features, materials and components one should look for in a premium AR. That is a very personal thing and it's all about your needs and, more importantly, how much money you are willing to spend. I have my opinions and favorites, but they are very much about my needs which, because of my age and assorted handicaps, are probably not the same as your needs.
In regard to my comment to the effect that "you'll get what you pay for if you are lucky"... I meant that as a grim reminder about the current "panic mode" state of affairs with AR's. I meant it as a warning not to unknowingly pay more than something is worth... and to be careful because some folks are out to take unfair advantage of the panic situation. I believe that at $599+Tx, I'll be getting my money's worth with the Sport II... but if it turns out that I have to pay $749+ or $799+, I'm going to blow it off. The Sport II is not worth that much money to me and I have other better options.
Will I modify and upgrade the Sport II a bit? Probably. It's what you do with an AR to suit your needs and taste. Will I spend a ton of money doing so? Negative.
Again, I appreciate that you seem to think that I am an expert on AR's. Trust me, I am nothing of the sort. I'd tell you if I were. You can probably get much better advice than I could ever give you in 10 minutes on YouTube.
Honest! scoobysnacker
Member
Ok, in perusing the thread, I get it now. Sport II under $550 OTD, as I got it, a great deal. Over $700 OTD, not so much.
Beyond that, as a first/only rifle, if the primary intended use is for the range and "to have one before they get banned", I'm assuming this or the comparable Ruger model is good to go, right?
What happens if there is a ban of some sort, and you need service on the gun? Any experience regarding past bans- do warranties etc still get honored, or would it be "it's ok to keep it until it breaks, then you're out of luck"?
I realize that's a speculative question, but there has to have been something similar in the past. Thanks
Beyond that, as a first/only rifle, if the primary intended use is for the range and "to have one before they get banned", I'm assuming this or the comparable Ruger model is good to go, right?
What happens if there is a ban of some sort, and you need service on the gun? Any experience regarding past bans- do warranties etc still get honored, or would it be "it's ok to keep it until it breaks, then you're out of luck"?
I realize that's a speculative question, but there has to have been something similar in the past. Thanks
Funny how things work out. I had planned to buy a Sport II before November but money is extremely tight at the moment and other priorities keep getting in the way.
Thanks!
Dang.....
TTSH is finally getting that "Truck Gun" he's always wanted!!!!
My last trip to the LGS.....still plenty of ARs on the wall and still some in back.....no price increases.....
also noting a lot of on line AR magazine "Sales" this 4th of July weekend!!!!!
Now you know damn well that we don't do "truck guns" here in the People's Republic.Dang.....
TTSH is finally getting that "Truck Gun" he's always wanted!!!!
My last trip to the LGS.....still plenty of ARs on the wall and still some in back.....no price increases.....
also noting a lot of on line AR magazine "Sales" this 4th of July weekend!!!!!
We could lose our LTC's for life. In fact, a story in the news just the other day reinforced that fact for anyone who might have forgotten. The Sport II will live in one of my safes just like all my other guns.
Might even take it out and shoot it once in a while! 
blues7
Member
Now you know damn well that we don't do "truck guns" here in the People's Republic.
The Sport II will live in one of my safes just like all my other guns.
"Lock up my rifle, you say...?"
So, I just got back from a local gunshow, and there is certainly no shortage of EBR's and Sport II's for sale. Well over a hundred EBR's of all price ranges, with Sport II's going from $599 to $699.
Some dealers appeared to be fishing.
There was no panic, in fact most people just walked on by the tables. Ammo wasn't selling too brisk either, so no panic there.
Are wholesale prices up? Who knows but it wasn't reflected in pricing that I could see, they were the same price some couple of weeks ago, give or take a few $'s.
The few Smith's I saw were ridiculous in pricing, 1500 for a 4 inch ND 629? I'll take 1300 for mine.
Some dealers appeared to be fishing.
There was no panic, in fact most people just walked on by the tables. Ammo wasn't selling too brisk either, so no panic there.
Are wholesale prices up? Who knows but it wasn't reflected in pricing that I could see, they were the same price some couple of weeks ago, give or take a few $'s.
The few Smith's I saw were ridiculous in pricing, 1500 for a 4 inch ND 629? I'll take 1300 for mine.
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NOW I believe there will be a run on firearms and ammo in the coming months.
blues7
Member
I only just recently topped up all of my plinking and "duty" ammo for the various calibers / gauges I own...and at excellent prices, no less.
Yes, there is no doubt that 2A is in far more serious jeopardy after today... although most of us felt that the fix was in all along anyway.
In any case, I'm on the waiting list for a MA-compliant Sport II at $599+Tax at my local Cabela's. Forty-five of them are supposedly on order. My position on the waiting list is about 2/3rds of the way down (which is not very good)... but I have the advantage of being a poor retired old fart, meaning that if they call folks on the list during the day, and many of them don't answer because they are at work, I win. Stay tuned.
blues7
Member
... but I have the advantage of being a poor retired old fart, meaning that if they call folks on the list during the day, and many of them don't answer because they are at work, I win.
Stay tuned.
Well them whippersnappers will just have to learn...
Yes, there is no doubt that 2A is in far more serious jeopardy after today... although most of us felt that the fix was in all along anyway.
Stay tuned.
Hope you get yours.
Great little gun for the money, imo.
Sport II is coming back down to where it should be IMHO.
Whittaker Guns is back to $549 + $12 shipping.
https://shop.whittakerguns.com/product/368
Whittaker Guns is back to $549 + $12 shipping.
https://shop.whittakerguns.com/product/368
Damn straight!
Hey, I typed out those words (above) almost verbatim as spoken by the clerk lady at Cabela's.
She knows how it works and she could see by my advanced age and dilapidated appearance that I've practically got one foot in the grave already! I think she's going to try to do her best to get me one before I die... God bless her soul! In stock too...
... but not MA-compliant. Likewise, I think I'm in excellent shape.
Two recent runs to Cabela's, both with discounted gift cards and $$-off coupons, have me looking pretty darn good ammo-wise, even for specialty and odd caliber ammo (which had been a weak point in an otherwise very well-stocked ammo cabinet). 
coolcobramatt
Member
Whittaker's is a great dealer and only 60 miles from my house. HUGE discount firearms dealer in the middle of nowhere but always packed with customers.
Thanks to you guys mentioning their $549 price, I went back to Gander and got them to refund another $50 off my purchase price from last week. Gotta love those 30 day price guarantees!
Whitwabit
US Veteran
Yeah, $699 seems to be the new street price post-Orlando and even up from there.
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Seems like about the same price here around me .. so I am going to wait too to see if the prices drop again .. I'm not in a hurry ..
Hey guys! It's only July.Waiting, waiting, waiting, patience, patience, patience, waiting waiting waiting
We should have some time before the real Armageddon panic starts... right? But too bad for me... it now appears that Cabela's pulled its $599 sale price several weeks early.
On-line, it's now $699. Oh well.
My chances were slim-to-none anyway. Hey guys! It's only July.
Yep. Patience grasshoppa....your not alone in this boat
Giving up...
After Dallas, I think I'm giving up for good. Not only was there no end in sight for the ongoing panic/shortage, but it looks even worse now. What seemed like a good idea (i.e., buying a basic, no-nonsense back-up AR pre-November) has turned into an expensive, frustrating, almost hopeless proposition.
So as they say on the Shark Tank... "I'm out"!
After Dallas, I think I'm giving up for good.
Not only was there no end in sight for the ongoing panic/shortage, but it looks even worse now. What seemed like a good idea (i.e., buying a basic, no-nonsense back-up AR pre-November) has turned into an expensive, frustrating, almost hopeless proposition. So as they say on the Shark Tank... "I'm out"!
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