Derringer recoil

Ivan the Butcher · Mar 15, 2019

dennis g said:
My AD in .357. Not bad to shoot with.38's, but it stings a bit with 125 grain .357's. Doesn't hurt near as bad as a .454.

I also have an American Derringer in 357Mag. The gun isn't too bad to shoot with 145 357's (Silvertips) but the barrels are not regulated for any (I mean any) distance! at 21 feet the barrels print 17" apart. With a 158 LRN non+P in the upper and a 110 grain 357 STHP in the lower I can hold 3" 6 shot group at 21'. But very manageable.

I have a total of 6 derringers A Davis 22Mag, Two Davis 32 ACP, an American in 357, a High Standard double action in 22Mag, and American on the High Standard Double Action Design in 38 Special. The 2 double actions are the way to go. For under the table work: Pop-Pop that fast, drop the derringer and get the real gun out, before anyone knows what happened! (Learn to use it weak handed, and you won't even have to set your cards down!)

Ivan

Narragansett · Mar 15, 2019

Really no need to weigh in, but I will. I just do not see why anybody would want a hand cannon. Like those 13oz 357 mags that Smith makes. Where is the fun?

Just my .02

Imissedagain · Mar 15, 2019

Narragansett said:
Really no need to weigh in, but I will. I just do not see why anybody would want a hand cannon. Like those 13oz 357 mags that Smith makes. Where is the fun?

Just my .02

Years ago my boy came home from the range with his new 357 LCR and was not smiling.

38s were okay..... 38+P were not fun and 357s ..... never again!!!
I gave him a wee bit less than he just paid for it and loaded up 100....... the following day my hand felt normal.

Would be nice to have an adult caliber in an action like our
HS 22Mag..... two pulls... two down range.

Decades of crawling around boats in the Marine Electronics business..... the 22Mag was always on board.....with the grips removed.

vipermd · Mar 15, 2019

forrestinmathews said:
People who carry these...
How much spare ammo are you carrying and how?
I'm carrying four spare rounds in a watch pocket. Seems like enough.

I carry 4or 6 in a speed strip. Be Safe,

forrestinmathews · Mar 15, 2019

Ivan the Butcher said:
I also have an American Derringer in 357Mag. The gun isn't too bad to shoot with 145 357's (Silvertips) but the barrels are not regulated for any (I mean any) distance! at 21 feet the barrels print 17" apart. With a 158 LRN non+P in the upper and a 110 grain 357 STHP in the lower I can hold 3" 6 shot group at 21'. But very manageable.
Ivan

Interesting. I have not tried this yet. I have been using the offset of holding 18" low and 12" low with 160gr LRNFP. I can hit an A zone at 21' on demand.

I wonder why they never took the time to regulate the barrels. They'd be miles ahead by just lining up the barrels parallel to each other. Excuses for lazy craftsmanship...

Execpro · Mar 15, 2019

Had a Bond in 45acp and loved it. You might consider getting the rubber full or half grip for it. Much better control. It was the 3” bbl in a cross draw holster worn at 10-11 o’clock. Easy to carry,draw and hide(with cover garment.I wear an untucked shirt year round).
Nothing but positive things to say.
It is a bit pricy for a 2 shot gun,but it is what ever floats your boat!
The 45acp or 40cal with 3”bbl are considered the best calibers and bbl length for power factor.
If you get the gun discribed, shoot the 45 colt and get the 45acp 3” bbl! JMO.
The recoil is a bit snappy but manageable.

Be SAFE and Shoot often!

vipermd · Mar 15, 2019

I do prefer the ADC 's over the bonds. My calibers - 22 mag, 380, 9mm,38 spl, 357 mag, 45 ACP,45 Colt/410, 41 Mag, 44 Mag. I have taught and watched 12 year old girls shoot the ADC 45 Colt with out difficulty or "carpal crushing", firing a standard Cowboy load. A 357 made by Buffalo Arms in Tonawanda, New York,From 1970- to 1980, have a superb trigger, something none of the other derringers have. I was talking to a holster Maker about building an arm holster for the derringers 36 hours ago. Practical- No, Fast Draw- No Comforting-Yes Be Safe,

forrestinmathews · Mar 15, 2019

vipermd said:
I do prefer the ADC 's over the bonds. My calibers - 22 mag, 380, 9mm,38 spl, 357 mag, 45 ACP,45 Colt/410, 41 Mag, 44 Mag. I have taught and watched 12 year old girls shoot the ADC 45 Colt with out difficulty or "carpal crushing", firing a standard Cowboy load. A 357 made by Buffalo Arms in Tonawanda, New York,From 1970- to 1980, have a superb trigger, something none of the other derringers have. I was talking to a holster Maker about building an arm holster for the derringers 36 hours ago. Practical- No, Fast Draw- No Comforting-Yes Be Safe,

Tell me/us about your POI/POA for these calibers if you would. Is there an ADC that actually hits somewhat close to where it is aimed?

Arm holster sound cool.

I have my ADC down to about 2-3 pounds. It's very nice but still has a slight bit of creep. The effort to make the trigger crisp and light is not being exerted. They make all kinds of excuses but it's just a screen for a lack of skilled smiths to do it.

kaaskop49 · Mar 16, 2019

Narragansett said:
Really no need to weigh in, but I will. I just do not see why anybody would want a hand cannon. Like those 13oz 357 mags that Smith makes. Where is the fun?

Just my .02

Like all EDC-style guns, they're not built for fun. They're built for places like casino parking lots at 2AM, or for that matter, at any other time. Another advantage: many jackets have very shallow pockets. Even a J-frame with minimal stocks is too long for concealment. A derringer at 5" OAL or less is perfect for such occasions: ready to go in the hand yet concealed.

As to "why anybody would want a hand cannon:" (1) For every Jack, there's a Jill. (2) Some of us simply can't break the habit after working too many of the "garden spots" of our society before we retired. Good shooting to all!

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

P.S. Been a pleasure meeting other "D" guys in this thread.

forrestinmathews · Mar 16, 2019

kaaskop49 said:
Like all EDC-style guns, they're not built for fun. They're built for places like casino parking lots at 2AM, or for that matter, at any other time. Another advantage: many jackets have very shallow pockets. Even a J-frame with minimal stocks is too long for concealment. A derringer at 5" OAL or less is perfect for such occasions: ready to go in the hand yet concealed.

As to "why anybody would want a hand cannon:" (1) For every Jack, there's a Jill. (2) Some of us simply can't break the habit after working too many of the "garden spots" of our society before we retired. Good shooting to all!

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103
P.S. Been a pleasure meeting other "D" guys in this thread.

I beg to differ about the fun part. I have the .45 Cowboy Special option.

If you would be so kind as to share what route you chose in caliber/bullet design. I'm not getting expansion at all and am resorting to hard cast with a big meplat.

Nice to meet someone with a grasp of the niche.

kaaskop49 · Mar 16, 2019

forrestinmathews said:
I beg to differ about the fun part. I have the .45 Cowboy Special option.

If you would be so kind as to share what route you chose in caliber/bullet design. I'm not getting expansion at all and am resorting to hard cast with a big meplat.

Nice to meet someone with a grasp of the niche.

Over the years, I have built up a supply of half- or third-empty ammo boxes for most handgun calibers. Many of these loads are no longer commercially available. In the .45 Colt guns, I have used the regular W-W 255gr lead and the Federal 225gr (I think) LHP. Don't know about expansion, but these big, fat slugs are nothing to stand in front of. Elizabeth of ADC told me she test fires her LC Ds with this W-W factory load.

And thank you for your kind comment about the 'niche.'

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

forrestinmathews · Mar 16, 2019

kaaskop49 said:
Over the years, I have built up a supply of half- or third-empty ammo boxes for most handgun calibers. Many of these loads are no longer commercially available. In the .45 Colt guns, I have used the regular W-W 255gr lead and the Federal 225gr (I think) LHP. Don't know about expansion, but these big, fat slugs are nothing to stand in front of. Elizabeth of ADC told me she test fires her LC Ds with this W-W factory load.

And thank you for your kind comment about the 'niche.'

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

I'm considering the Hunters Supply .452 275 grain hard cast with a .330 meplat or a Matt's Bullets 240 grain .452 hollow based wadcutter possibly turned around backwards. Until they are developed I will stick with the 300 grain softpoint acting as a solid. Unless you'd believe a fast soft lead
160 would be better.

Ivan the Butcher · Mar 16, 2019

forrestinmathews said:
Interesting. I have not tried this yet. I have been using the offset of holding 18" low and 12" low with 160gr LRNFP. I can hit an A zone at 21' on demand.

I wonder why they never took the time to regulate the barrels. They'd be miles ahead by just lining up the barrels parallel to each other. Excuses for lazy craftsmanship...

The barrels are not adjustable like shotgun or double rifles, where two barrels are silver soldiered together. They are a single forging/casting, with two holes bored in then rifled!

When using two different rounds to regulate the barrels, if you get them backwards, you will double the original group size . In my 357's case that is 34" @ 21' maybe two complete misses!

I don't carry spare ammo for the derringers, when CCWing them, they are fire and forget (maybe drop!) weapons!

Ivan

forrestinmathews · Mar 17, 2019

Ivan the Butcher said:
The barrels are not adjustable like shotgun or double rifles, where two barrels are silver soldiered together. They are a single forging/casting, with two holes bored in then rifled!

When using two different rounds to regulate the barrels, if you get them backwards, you will double the original group size . In my 357's case that is 34" @ 21' maybe two complete misses!

I don't carry spare ammo for the derringers, when CCWing them, they are fire and forget (maybe drop!) weapons!

Ivan

Hi Ivan,
When I was considering the 10mm bespoke build with ADC, I calculated that the barrels could be drilled something like 0.4° set in together and they would be spot on at ten yards. This would be undetectable to the shooter and would not affect the firing. Bond had obviously figured something like this out as well. My Bond shoots two groups about four inches apart. It's clearly a failure to realize precision in the machining on the part of ADC. If I recall the comment was to the effect of "what distance would you regulate them to?" My response was unhesitatingly 10 yards. They were baffled by the thought of this.

Execpro · Mar 17, 2019

POA/POI 45 ACP

I shot 185gr Speer Gold Dot HP. Painted the front blade sight with Testors Yellow paint (so I could see and index a sight pic faster).

POA/POI was right on for the top BBL (Combat sight picture),the bottom BBL shot right under the top BBL hole (If you placed the open gun bbl over the target,the holes would align with the BBL openings). Shots fired at 5 yards.

Be SAFE and Shoot often!!!

forrestinmathews · Mar 17, 2019

Execpro said:
I shot 185gr Speer Gold Dot HP. Painted the front blade sight with Testors Yellow paint (so I could see and index a sight pic faster).

POA/POI was right on for the top BBL (Combat sight picture),the bottom BBL shot right under the top BBL hole (If you placed the open gun bbl over the target,the holes would align with the BBL openings). Shots fired at 5 yards.

Be SAFE and Shoot often!!!

I looked back and found that this was a Bond. So this report is unsurprising. The Americans are the ones which are grossly unregulated.

Did you get expansion in the hollow points?

forrestinmathews · Mar 19, 2019

So I've got some 230 grain short barrel gold dots headed my way for expansion testing. I intend to see if they will be made to expand from either derringer. If not I have some Missouri bullet company 215 grain wide flat noses coming along with some 335 grain slammers which are darn near wadcutters...very large meplat. The Missouri bullets are under 20 cents a shot so that is very nice. Something out of those three will be acceptable I am sure. I will update as testing completes.

Execpro · Mar 19, 2019

I never tested that round for expansion. I’m sure you can find some info on google. It is basically a 45 hp out of a 3”bbl.
If you have expansion concerns,you could consider a truncated bullet. I don’t believe that with a 45 that anything other than a full metal jacket would be a concern. JMO.

Be SAFE and Shoot often!

vipermd · Mar 19, 2019

forrestinmathews said:
Tell me/us about your POI/POA for these calibers if you would. Is there an ADC that actually hits somewhat close to where it is aimed?Arm holster sound cool.I have my ADC down to about 2-3 pounds. It's very nice but still has a slight bit of creep. The effort to make the trigger crisp and light is not being exerted. They make all kinds of excuses but it's just a screen for a lack of skilled smiths to do it.

Sorry for the delay- The Groundhog lied!!! All of them are with in +/- 2" L-R, U-D @ 7 yards on paper plate as long as I do my part. The Buffalo arms 357 has the best trigger of them all and @ 7 yards will shoot "groups", the only bad thing is that the frame will hit my middle finger since recoil seems to come straight back. It is the only "D" that I have shot since Nov 2018. Be Safe,

forrestinmathews · Mar 19, 2019

Execpro said:
I never tested that round for expansion. I’m sure you can find some info on google. It is basically a 45 hp out of a 3”bbl.
If you have expansion concerns,you could consider a truncated bullet. I don’t believe that with a 45 that anything other than a full metal jacket would be a concern. JMO.

Be SAFE and Shoot often!

I'm not getting a lot of velocity. I'm hoping that the Short Barrel will work when loaded warm in the .45 Colt.

Derringer recoil

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