Les Baer or Dan Wesson?

This is the S&W forum...

Hunt up a S&W PC 945. It’s not a 1911, but you won’t be disappointed!

Hey now, let him chase down 1911’s. 40 different gunmakers are spitting out hundreds of 1911’s a day, whereas 945’s are long out of production.

Let him discover the pure joy of a 945, sure, but if he wants a 1911, that’s a different animal and no legwork to find one.

Whoa whoa....easy fellas! Lol...... this 1911 will only be my 3rd semi auto, a whole new world to me.

I’m not finished with my 5 screw collection yet, I figure it’ll be some time before I get my toes wet in S&W semi autos. At least I hope so, I can’t afford all the wheel guns I’m sweet on right now!

On a serious note, I really appreciate the comments/advice.

Thank you
Bob

I've owned Colt, Kimber, American Classic, Rock Island, and Springfield Armory 1911's. I'm a slightly above average bullseye shooter and a pretty good combat shooter and all those guns were perfectly reliable and equally accurate in my hands with maybe a slight edge to the Kimber just because it had an awesome 2-1/2 lb trigger. If this is only your third handgun and your're not rich I would suggest something cheaper and spend the rest of the money on ammo and practice and once you become a great shot and can shoot 2-1/2" groups at 25 yards offhand with a Les Baer then go ahead and buy one.

I'm not bashing Kimber I have owned several of them but when I got my first Baer they all were sold.

Bang for the buck, Dan Wesson Pointman series guns are the best out there.

I own three, 2 PM45's and 1 PM9. One PM45 is a carry gun and the other two are set up for USPSA competition. Massive round count through all of them and they all run flawlessly.

I have owned and shot all of the other 1911 platforms out there. Some are good, some are great, some are garbage.

I don't see that there will ever be any 1911's in my safe that aren't DW.

If it were me, then I'd buy a Colt then buy aftermarket parts to make it all the more special.

I take my DW CCO to the gunshow. Everyone that picks it up, racks the action, get this big grin on their face. I can't count the number of people who have said it was nicer than their $3k custom jobs... Baer, Ed Brown, etc.

Pick out a DW model that suits you and send me the money you save. We'll both be happy.

Got an STI Trojan from a friend in 9mm, wanted a 1911 in the safe after I sold the Para Ordnance Limited. Nice gun, shot little, has a nice trigger pull, he added a mag well and is very accurate. The 9mm is good enough for me, getting older and it doesn’t kick much. Good luck in your choice Bob, you’ll find a nice one. Larry

My Les Baer Premier II has had a lot of rounds through it. I've had this gun for over 15 years, but it just gets better every time I shoot it!

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Les Baer definitely gets my vote.

Bob, I've owned more than one of each. Don't think you could go wrong with either. Were I in the market now days, I'd just pick the one with the features I wanted, whether that happened to be DW or Baer.

Abflyboy said:

Pointman series guns are the best out there.

I don't see that there will ever be any 1911's in my safe that aren't DW.

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My sentiment exactly. Shot my buds PM 9 and decided I need to have one too. My 9mm Silverback is the most beautiful of all my autos and the most rewarding to shoot, tight but smooth and soft cycling...totally love it.

Not meaning to break the thread here, but I see high-dollar Baers, Wilsons, Browns, etc., all set up with state of the art sights and match barrels and fancy bushings.

Will someone please tell me the advantage (if any) of triggers and hammers with holes in them? Seriously. And please don't say "weight reduction", okay? Any weight reduction would be so slight as to be irrelevant (my opinion).

Laketime said:

Who would you recommend to do the custom work to make it run and group like the other two?

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I'm an above average bullseye shooter. Not in the top 3, but at least in the upper third.

I consider a K22 and an M41 to be quite accurate as far as production guns go. As far as center fire semis, my Gold Cup is actually more accurate than I am. Thus, I see no need to modify it.

Maybe if the wind were right and the planets aligned I could get a better score with a Baer. But at that price point, it isn't cost effective.

I am a huge fan of S&W, but I Do like older Colts as well. Nothing sacred about a Colt, and nothing against a Baer, but I just don't see the need.

One of my other 1911s (not A1) shoots terrible groups but I get more enjoyment from shooting that one than any of my others. Its a 1915 manufacture and still runs 100% with anything I feed it.

"Will someone please tell me the advantage (if any) of triggers and hammers with holes in them? Seriously. And please don't say "weight reduction", okay."



Okay. Here's the three-hole trigger explanation:

Xavier Thoughts: 1911 Trigger Changes

1911 Trigger Changes
I was asked recently why custom 1911s almost always have a skeletonized silver trigger. It is a fair question. After all, if the 1911 is supposed to have such a wonderful trigger, if that is the allure of the gun, then why do people always swap it out?

GI triggerOne of the beautiful things about Browning's brainchild is the single action trigger can be tuned to extremely light pull weights and extremely short strokes. In bullseye shooting, it is not uncommon for pistols to have triggers so light that hummingbirds hovering nearby can set them off (not really, but almost). Trigger pulls this light are desirable in bullseye to achieve extremely precise marksmanship.

A problem arose with the 1911 however. Under recoil, the heavy machined steel trigger would bounce, causing the pistol to shoot doubles, and sometimes triples at very light trigger weights. The wider trigger shoes often affixed to 1911 triggers in those days only exacerbated the problem. The first solution was to drill holes in the steel trigger shoe to lighten it up. A lighter trigger would not be so subject to bouncing under recoil. In those days, aftermarket parts were not available, and gunsmiths fabricated parts rather than swapping them out.

Vickers triggerSoon, three round holes in your trigger became the sign of a top flight trigger job. Then aluminum triggers came on the market. Of course, the new fangled lightweight aluminum triggers had the same three holes, so everyone would know you had a trigger job on your pistol. These triggers have a set screw in them for overtravel adjustment, but they have no provision for pre-travel. If I remember correctly, Videcki was the first out the chute with this lightweight "pow button", and Bill Wilson was quick to catch up. This type of trigger is today frequently seen in off the shelf pistols.

McCormick triggerOther, even lighter triggers soon appeared on the market. One of my old favorites, the Dlask trigger, has a magnesium shoe and titanium stirrup. It can be adjusted for pre-travel as well as over-travel. The Dlask trigger was my favorite for a long time, simply because of that adjustment capability. Then, Chip McCormick introduced his lightweight trigger which caused a sensation. It was a less expensive trigger than the Dlask, but allows the same adjustments. There are other triggers available with changeable shoe lengths, plastic shoes, and even shoes with ball bearings. None of these special triggers constitutes a trigger job by itself. A 1911 trigger job occurs on the sear and hammer hooks, not in the trigger guard. Like chrome valve covers on a hot rod engine, these aftermarket triggers are just visible indicators that a trigger job has been performed on the gun.

Solid aluminum triggerToday, most off the shelf 1911s have skeletonized aluminum triggers. These are usually of the three hole "Videcki" design, making the triangular holed McCormick trigger the sign of the custom trigger job. Ironically, many top flight pistolsmiths are moving back to the solid aluminum trigger today. The skeletonized aluminum triggers were and are all about fashion. The skeletonization is simply not needed in an aluminum trigger. Thus, the 1911 trigger has come almost full circle in outward appearance. What is old is new again.

I have two DW 1911's and one LB. Like all of them.
If money is not an issue get a Bear 1.5" group. Accuracy is really something and if you don't get another 1911 having a hand fit pistol is very cool.
My humble opinion.

I spent a lot of time this past year thinking about the Les Baer and the DW A2 - exactly the same two pistols the OP is considering. There is something old school about the Baer pistols that is very appealing, although as ‘tight’ as they are reputed to be, they might be hard to use until well broken in.

But I decided what I was really hankering for was an all-steel pistol that is accurate. Forays into ownership of a 5906 and a 915 (admittedly both 9mm guns) were not as rewarding as I had hoped, even after adding new Novak sights installed by Novak’s in Parkersburg, because I never got the accuracy I hoped for.

I eventually stumbled on CZs in the past three or four months and have, with all three of them I own, found the all-steel guns, the build quality, and the accuracy I want in my pistols. Not that I am suggesting a CZ-75 in place of a Les Baer or a DW (which is also made by CZ) but it is something to think about...

If I was to buy a custom 1911, I would save enough to buy a Wilson Combat. I’ve shot Baer, Ed Brown, and Wilson side by side. IMO the Wilson was just a bit more refined.

But since I don’t need nor want to pay for a custom, my Dan Wesson is all I need. Its still the best production gun available. Much better than “legendary” 1911’s of yesteryear.

A production gun can not compete with a custom one. I have three Les Baers and two Nighthawks. Nighthawk is presently doing custom work on my LW Colt Commander. I also have two Kimbers, which probably compares to the DW.

What you have to decide is if you’re willing to settle for a production gun, or spend more money on a custom. I think the custom gun will be more accurate, but the difference isn’t probably that noticeable when fired off hand. For me, it’s more a matter of personal pride. My edc is my Nighthawk T3. Some people flinch at carrying a high dollar pistol for fear of loosing it in a shooting. My thought is if I’m betting my life, I want the best I can get.

A DW will shoot better than 99% of the actual people shooting it.
SW and Sig are not "true" 1911's with external extractors (although work very well and in some ways better.)