Winchester Model 94 in 32 Win Special Thoughts?

Winchester 1894 in 32win special

I also shoot a Winchester 1894 in 32 spl. I purchased it from an old gentleman who used it for a lifetime in the Blue Ridge mountains in VA. He said that he lost count of the deer he had harvested. The carbine dates to 1927. It started me on a long road of collecting Winchester lever guns and reloading for same. Its like Mom's hot apple pie, you can not stop with just one and reloading is as addictive as the guns. I reload for 30-30, 32 WCF, 38-55, 25-20, 25-35, 38-40, 30-40 Krag and everything a S&W shoots. Right now, I have discovered the joy of shooting the 1894 in 25-35 to the point of collecting 3 carbines and a rifle all of which are over 100 years old and they stack the bullets. Reload and enjoy the sport of collecting and shooting and your "new" discovery. Enjoy!

In fall of 2017 I determined to dust off the Model 94 .32 Winchester Special for deer season since it hadn't been out in several years. Took it to the range in October to verify sights. Was a fluke I'm sure, but it turned in the best 5-shot group I ever shot with an open sighted lever-action at 100 yards. Was tickled!

As it turned out, a few weeks later I sustained some unanticipated bypass surgery so deer season was a bust and I still haven't taken the Model 94 for an outing.

It's a World War II eve pre-war Model 94 Carbine. Shows the best group of the day and another group shot. This was accomplished with Winchester Western factory loads. Always heard that the .32 Winchester Special was less accurate than the .30-30. I've also held the view that the Winchester 94 was less accurate than the Marlin 336, but ... maybe that ain't so.

It's a good cartridge, It does what it was intended to do.
Is it any better than a 30-30, No, probably not in deer hunting situation.
Is an 8mm Mauser any better than a 30-06 in the same situation probably not.

Doesn't mean much really.
If you reload, just buy '32spcl 170gr FN or RN jkt bullets. Most all the bullet makers mfg them. They are .321d. They work in the .32Remington also.
Many reloading manuals double up 30-30 and 32Spcl reloading data.

Make cases from common 30-30 as already mentioned. LEE offers dies as do most of the others.

No you usually won't find it on the shelf at Wally's, but you never know. If you do it'll most likely be more $$ than the common 30-30. That's just supply & demand stuff.
38-55 is usually more too. Try and buy some 25-35 for cheap sometime.

50rds keeps me well supplied. It doesn't have a 30rd mag and a charging handle on the side,,so operation is pretty slow and easy at the range.


The 32WIn Spcl was introduced as a HV smokeless cartridge,,nothing else.
Came out in 1905 and chambered in the Win 94 carbine and rifle.

It was a HV smokeless standin for the already in place choice of the 32-40 WCF rd which was the same bullet dia, same bore dia and rifling twist, and had been loaded in both BP and smokeless (light smokeless loads).
The 32-40 stayed around in the 94 till WW2 even with the 32Special being offered as well.


I don't buy the general thought that the rifling of 1-16 was used from the start because Winchester wanted to put something out there that would allow the shooter of the era to be able to reload it with BP.

I think Winchester just found the 1-16 twist sufficiently accurate for the bullet weight, shape and velocity the new HV cartridge was producing and stuck with it.
There certainly wasn't going to be an elaborate choice of Jacketed bullet weights and shapes to mess with rifling twist rates.
I haven't ever seen much in the way of complaints of accuracy in the 1-16 bbls with over the counter commercial smokeless ammunition.
Look at the pics of the targets just in this thread shot with smokeless reloads.
The 32cal 170gr/165gr jacketed FN seems to be quite accurate in the 1-16 twist. and has been so for 100+ years.

The 32-40 using the same bullet, either lead or jacketed didn't suffer from accuracy issues either since it's beginnings in the 1880's.
It was a top choice mid range off hand target round for many years.
A BP/lead bullet round initially, it was later loaded with thin jacketed bullets and light loads of smokeless powder.
These lighter smokeless loads with a nod toward the older Ballard, H&A and Stevens rifles of the day in that caliber.

IIRC, one Winchester Reloading brochure (1905?) mentioned that the 32Win could be (re)loaded with BP as well as smokeless as the owner desired.
...So true of any cartridge out there.

My first centerfire rifle is a 1948 94 .32 Special I still have. It is a “flat band” carbine where the front band is flat on the sides rather than rounded. In the classic “Cartridges Of The World” Every bizarre cartridge ever made is listed, but the ONE round that earned the title “most useless cartridge” by Barnes is, yes, you guessed it. The .32 Win. Special! Why pick on my rifle?!! All the flash in the pan redundant wildcats and failed commercial round and he called the .32 useless. I think his rational was it was too close to the 30-30, but probably ignored the black powder reloading option it was correctly meant to be used for.

I have never quite understood if there is much truthfulness of stories about handloading the .32 WS with BP, although I suppose some have done it, and why the 1:16 twist was supposed to be better for use with BP. It doesn't make much sense.

My very first attempt at reloading, back in my early teens, was reloading a fired .30-30 case with BP and a fired .30 Carbine bullet, which I fired in an ancient Model 94 rifle (not a carbine). The interesting part of that event was that I also reloaded the fired primer using a cap gun cap. I removed the anvil from the fired primer, tapped out the firing pin dimple in the cup with a flat-end punch, cut the paper from around a cap and put the cap mixture in the primer cup, and replaced the anvil. It actually fired.

"but the ONE round that earned the title “most useless cartridge” by Barnes is, yes, you guessed it. The .32 Win. Special!"
I believe he was referring to the .32 SL, not the .32 WS, as used in the Winchester Model 1905 self-loading rifle. And which later became the inspiration for the .30 Carbine cartridge.

As has been mentioned, Remington had a rimless counterpart to the rimmed .32 WS cartridge, the .32 Remington, for the Remington Model 8 rifle. I have no idea what the rifling twist rate used for the .32 Rem Model 8 was. Reloading data for the .32 Remington and the .32 WS are identical, just as the .30-30 and .30 Remington data are the same. Aside from the presence or absence of the rim, there is relatively little case dimensional difference between the Winchester and Remington .30 and .32 versions. I use a .30-30 die set for reloading the .30 Remington.

Just FYI regarding the slower twist of the 32:

Below is a link to an an interesting short article appearing on the Western Powders website entitled "Loading for the .32 Winchester Special". It discusses the black powder/cast bullet ideas mentioned on our thread for the 32.

Thought it could be somewhat informative...

LOADING FOR THE .32 WINCHESTER SPECIAL << Western Powders


Bayou52

I recall reading that when the barrel of a 32 Winchester Special became worn accuracy went out the window while a 30-30 could still give good results.

I inherited a 1952 Winchester 94 in 32 Special that saw deer woods duty in VA and WVA. Although it took many deer over the years, I have never hunted with it... Range time has been limited but accurate.

Can you guys with the flat band guns give us the serial numbers with the last couple of digits "X"ed out if you want. Just wondering what the serial number range is. Thanks.
Larry

DWalt said:

I have never quite understood if there is much truthfulness of stories about handloading the .32 WS with BP, although I suppose some have done it, and why the 1:16 twist was supposed to be better for use with BP. It doesn't make much sense.

My very first attempt at reloading, back in my early teens, was reloading a fired .30-30 case with BP and a fired .30 Carbine bullet, which I fired in an ancient Model 94 rifle (not a carbine). The interesting part of that event was that I also reloaded the fired primer using a cap gun cap. I removed the anvil from the fired primer, tapped out the firing pin dimple in the cup with a flat-end punch, cut the paper from around a cap and put the cap mixture in the primer cup, and replaced the anvil. It actually fired.

"but the ONE round that earned the title “most useless cartridge” by Barnes is, yes, you guessed it. The .32 Win. Special!"
I believe he was referring to the .32 SL, not the .32 WS, as used in the Winchester Model 1905 self-loading rifle.

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No, he was talking about the .32 Special. I looked it up before writing that to make sure the word "useless" was used which it was. I kind of liked that my gun was in a different caliber than the .30-30 just to break up the monotony.
Boykinlp, my flat ban .32 Special carbine is # 14451XX.

boykinlp said:

Can you guys with the flat band guns give us the serial numbers with the last couple of digits "X"ed out if you want. Just wondering what the serial number range is. Thanks.
Larry

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Sure - my flatband 32 has a serial number of 1431xxx.

Bayou52

Years ago, I was standing in a LGS when a fella brought in a 94 carbine 30/30 with the lever jammed tight. After some levering, hammering and cussing, the lever relented, the action opened and out popped a 32 WS case. The shop owner explained that firing a 32 Special in a 30/30 rifle was perhaps not a good idea. The gun owner said he’d been shooting 32’s in that rifle for years and didn’t think it was a problem. I don’t know if he went to 30/30’s after that or not. Speaks well for the strength of the 94 action.

boykinlp said:

Can you guys with the flat band guns give us the serial numbers with the last couple of digits "X"ed out if you want. Just wondering what the serial number range is. Thanks.
Larry

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Larry,
My model 94 .32 win spl flat band sn is 14042xx. Don't know the history, bought a few years ago at a garage sale.
Greg

"No, he was talking about the .32 Special. I looked it up before writing that to make sure the word "useless" was used which it was. I kind of liked that my gun was in a different caliber than the .30-30 just to break up the monotony."

Not in my copy of COTW (7th Edition), p.113. I will quote Barnes's comment regarding the .32 SL: "It is probably the number one candidate for the title of the world's most useless centerfire rifle cartridge." On p. 67, he discusses the .32 Winchester Special. He makes no comments about it being a useless cartridge.

BLACKHAWKNJ said:

I recall reading that when the barrel of a 32 Winchester Special became worn accuracy went out the window while a 30-30 could still give good results.

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That's already been mentioed in this thread and by Jack O'Connor in, The Rifle Book and in, The Hunting Rifle.

I've heard a few yokels tell me the .32 was more potent than the .30-30, but never believed that.

But the .35 Remington really does seem to be a better killer at the modest ranges at which these rifles are used. The late hunting writer John Wootters, Jr confirmed that, and he knew whereof he spoke. John probably used his Sako .308 more on deer, but had very wide experience with many rifles. His, Hunting Trophy Deer is recommended, if you can locate a copy.

DWalt said:

.... I have no idea what the rifling twist rate used for the .32 Rem Model 8 was. ....

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I have a Rem Model 8 in 32Rem on the bench right now. Just finished a restoration.
The twist rate is 1-15 by my somewhat shade tree measuring method of a tight patch on a cleaning rod measuring one rotation in the bore.
Rifle mfg'd in 1933. Excl bore.

I've shot it quite a bit in the past.
Accuracy with 170gr FN jacketed bullets intended for reloading in the 32Win Spcl and using 3031 powder. Iron sights it's no problem for me w/70 y/o eyes to get 1 1/2groups at 50m.
A family member has hunted with it in the past and has accounted for Whitetail with it at ranges up to 80yrds by his pacing off. One shot kills.

Not bench rest accuracy, but not bad from a 75 y/o autoloader that's only known for 'deer accuracy', and in a caliber w/a twist rate that shouldn't produce anything but beer keg accuracy w/smokeless powder by some accounts.

You get the same out of most any 32 Win Spcl lever gun or a Remington Model 30S bolt rifle chambered for 32 Rem.
They're all rifled in the 1-16 range +/-.

I don't think Remington brought out the 32Remington Auto Loading Rifle caliber in 1906/07 with any though of the owner re-loading it w/BP.

The 32cal 170gr bullet just seems to do fine in a 1-16 rifling twist rate.

As far as the Model 94 lever gun goes,,if you wanted a BP cartridge in one and wanted to continue to reload BP for it (or even buy commercial BP loaded ammo for it),,the 32-40 or the 38-55 were the calibers of choice for you.
And both calibers were continued to be offered up till WW2 in the 94.

DWalt said:

"No, he was talking about the .32 Special. I looked it up before writing that to make sure the word "useless" was used which it was. I kind of liked that my gun was in a different caliber than the .30-30 just to break up the monotony."

Not in my copy of COTW (7th Edition), p.113. I will quote Barnes's comment regarding the .32 SL: "It is probably the number one candidate for the title of the world's most useless centerfire rifle cartridge." On p. 67, he discusses the .32 Winchester Special. He makes no comments about it being a useless cartridge.

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My beat up flea market copy says "Revised 3rd Edition". I guess he wrote different stuff in different editions. But our books are different. Here's where my .32 Winchester got the bad rap in the general comments, "If there is such a thing as a most useless cartridge, the .32 Special would certainly cop the prize", omitted from your edition, or added later to mine. And he doesn't say it about the .32 SL in my book like is in yours. Just negative comments comparing it to the superior and more reloadable .32-20.

One of the first rifles I ever bought! Always had to have an old Winchester!
32 Winchester Special Saddle Ring Carbine made in 1926, it came out of a local gun smiths collection.
Took it out on many a deer hunt and even retired it once but it went back out again for one last time.
Great rifle,,,,enjoy!

If it's feasible for you I'd buy an inexpensive bullet mold for it and shoot cast bullets.

tale of my "Winnies"

My 32 Spl tale begins in 1963. Growing up in far southwest NY State, only shotguns with slugs allowed for deer so my venerable Ithaca Model 37 resulted in my first 2 whitetails, however my buddie and I, both having turned 18 in 1963 decided we would both save up the whole year and deer hunt the Adirondacks (rifles) come deer season.

We knew we had to have a guide, so we made arrangements (local guy, small camp, food and camp lodging included for 4 days in the woods..no "guarantee of deer, only that you'll get a chance), and we knew a good Winchester lever gun was probably the best (guides recommendation as well).

Anyway..the only gun I found that I could afford used was a Winchester 94 in 32 Special. Bought it, took it, had a great time but then my "friends and neighbors" requested that I go advise LBJ on the matters before him regarding US Army policy and procedures (I got drafted!). Lot of good handguns and long guns got sold in order to leave my brand new wife with some small coin to survive with until the Uncle Sam deal was over.

Fast forward several (actually many) years, I wanted desperately to replace that Win 32, but never saw one available, but finally did run across a Model 94 in 30-30 roll stamped New Haven, so before USRAC bought Winny out. Serials to about 1978/79.

Both guns have taken whitetail in multiple States, all at 75 yards or less, and most in heavy brush (and somehow always at the bottom of a draw....). Those Model 94 carbines are a life saver as those of you who have taken a deer at the bottom of a draw and face an uphill climb out with the dressed deer and your gun know the drill...rifle plain sight against a tree...drag or hump deer 20 yards, back and get rifle...repeat, repeat, etc. et. al. ad infinitum

Never had the luxury of a ATV, or even a pickup.

Accuracy between the two? Don't know but as posted the deer didn't seem to realize any difference either.

Love those Winchester lever guns.