Going the Casting Route -- Alloys

So I'm going to spend a little to save a little. You guys have convinced me that casting bullets is a good capability to have these days. So a couple of starter questions. First, can I get away with using an electronic burner 1100 watt or so, and a cast iron pot to get started?

Second, I'm looking at available allows until I can source some other lead. Midway has a 2% tin, 6% antinomy, 92% lead about 16 hardness.

My goal is to cast 175 SWC in .40 S&W initially and possibly get a higher quality hollow point mold later.

Advise?

That 2/6/92 is normally called 'hardball' alloy by the commercial casters. It's probably harder than you need, but that's a discussion for another time. It will probably work fine for you, although I suggest either a soft lube or a tumble lube.

You can try RotoMetals for alloy, more than likely cheaper than Midway.

I can't comment on the electric plate working for you, I've never tried it that way.

My Dad and uncles cast and reloaded. I had an uncle who was a jeweler/gunsmith and would make molds for casting. Upon my Dad's passing my BIL retained the reloading stuff I didn't want and all of the casting equipment. He gets 99% lead from his neighbor who works at the railroad. They have a deal on casting .308 caliber. At least once a year we will spend a weekend casting .355, .357, and .452. I get about 4 to 5 thousand bullets which 90% get coated with hi-tech coating. It is a PIA but it gets my loading cost to less than 7 cents per round not counting the 4 hour drive back to the farm. I also by 4 to 5 thousand per year to feed my habit.

DumpStick said:

That 2/6/92 is normally called 'hardball' alloy by the commercial casters. It's probably harder than you need, but that's a discussion for another time. It will probably work fine for you, although I suggest either a soft lube or a tumble lube.

You can try RotoMetals for alloy, more than likely cheaper than Midway.

I can't comment on the electric plate working for you, I've never tried it that way.

Click to expand...

I may try another lead source later. At the moment I'm going to stick with Midway for the first batch and take advantage of free shipping.

If 16 is too hard, what would be a good starting hardness? I suspect this may be asking a blonde verses brunette question. (Brunette for me )

You might buy Lyman Cast Bullet (4th edition). It gives methods for using scrap and wheel weights with other common alloys and makin Lyman #2 (kind of hard, Lyman #1 (a good low to medium velocity alloy) It also give the hardness of most standard alloys. Also tells you as cast diameters and how to predict various properties.

The electric hot plate and iron bowl will be fine to start with (temperature control will be spotty at best, but it will work!

I use 4 or 5 different alloys to meet the requirements of my intended uses! From pure lead to Linotype. Too soft can cause leading, too hard and the bullet does not take the rifling well (causing poor accuracy)

I have about 70 molds, the vast majority are Lyman and I bought used. Lee molds work fine if used in proper temperature range. I lost 3 or 4 to warping (Their warranty is restrictive!)

Ivan

Except for when I was casting bullets for BPCR matches, I always use either reclaimed range lead or clip-on wheel weights.

Concerning hardness, I have never tested my bullets in order to determine BHN. In order to harden the bullets that I will run through my lubri-sizer, I use a process called "quench casting", where you just drop bullets straight from the mold into a bucket of "cold" water. If you plan on poly coating your bullets, you want to just drop them on a soft towel and let them cool. The bullets will harden when you bake them in order to complete the coating process.

A note about casting hollow point bullets: unless you get (and keep) the pin hot, you will produce a larger number of deformed bullets than you want. Also, if you cast "hard" bullets, don't expect much expansion. You may find that a hard cast SWC will be much more effective than any hollow point that you cast.

I can't speak to the effectiveness of an electric plate, but when I started casting, I started with a single burner Coleman stove, melting pot, and ladle.

I forget, which cartridge are you looking to start casting for?

.40 S&W will be my first victim so high pressure, relatively fast. Yes, I want expansion so I can use these as self defense loads in a pinch.

If I like casting, I'll invest in a good pot and I would love to have a set of MP molds.

You are on the verge of a new horizon in the shooting hobby! I enjoy bullet casting and reloading at least as much as the shooting. I've been reloading since 1972 and casting bullets since 1973.

I used to mine the shooting range for spent bullets using an old Army entrenching tool and a wire screen to salvage lead. Every tire shop in a 20-mile radius knew me because I was always looking for old used wheel weights. Couple of small printing shops knew that I would gladly pick up any old linotype they needed to get rid of.

Those days are long gone. Today's wheel weights are trash. The printing industry has transitioned completely to computer-generated methods. There might be an indoor range or two that could be mined, but that is filthy and hard work not suited for a distinguished elderly gentleman such as myself. Residential plumbing has not been done with lead pipe since the 50's or so.

The 2/6/92 alloy described will perform very well at velocities up to nearly 2000FPS, assuming good bullet dimensions and fit along with proper lubrication. 16BHN is more than enough for any handgun application, and about what I use for most rifle applications.

For years I used a Coleman camp stove with an old cast iron pot (from Good Will store) to melt, clean, flux, and mix salvaged lead. I have several inexpensive aluminum muffin pans that I used to make lead ingots, which I marked on the surface with the approximate content. Lee Engineering offers a very good 10-lb. bottom-pour lead pot, of which I have two that I use during half-day casting sessions with 2 or 3 molds in use to produce 1000-plus bullets at a time.

I do everything outdoors, or in the garage with the overhead door open to assure good ventilation. Gauntlet gloves, leather apron, full face shield are the minimum for safety equipment. Always make absolutely sure that anything you are adding to a melt contains no moisture; even a small amount of condensation on cold metal can result in a violent and explosive result in the lead pot, throwing molten lead several feet in every direction.

By all means, acquire a copy of the excellent Lyman Cast Bullet Manual! Probably the best resource for anyone considering this aspect of the shooting sports. There is a lot to learn, but there is no reason to re-invent the wheel because a lot of people have done all the hard research for you.

A used turkey fryer at a garage sale works fine connected to a propane tank! Dutch oven pots are great for melting/smelting/alloying.

Roto-Metals has free shipping too and supplies the lead to most resellers!

I think Roto-Metals has links to other reloading sites including "CastBoolits" and LS Bullet lube which is very good and budget friendly.

Contact local shooting ranges some will be glad to allow mining lead from backstops. Range lead works fine for most handgun bullets at about 8-10 BHN!

For a great selection on molds check out NOE Molds. Their nice people too!

The Lyman book mentioned above is a very good resource as well as on line like right here!

Smiles,

Casting is a great hobby. I enjoy doing it during the winter months to pass the time & stay warm. You're going to have to learn entirely new skills, so be patient and don't give up. There's a lot to it.

Join the Cast Bullet Association Cast Bullet Association Forum

Another great source of info here Cast Boolits

These two websites are a wealth of information.

The castboolets site has a swapping & selling section, a good source for supplies, molds, dies, and all kinds of good stuff.

Get a copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet manual.

Be safe & good luck.

It is relatively easy to keep an open lead pot at the right temperature if you watch the bullets coming out. If the lead gets too hot, you will start to see frosted bullets. Just close the valve a little and keep going. I have cast for 25 years in the garage with the doors open for ventilation and it is pretty easy process once you get all the stuff you need to cast. One handy piece of equipment you might not think of is a wood mallet to help open the top-plate of the mold. A couple taps to break the sprue off over the pot is easy with a cut off axe handle or a wood mallet.

I always wonder how people can know what hardness their lead is? Many sources that sell lead do not know what alloy they are selling and many others only think they know. ebay often has decent prices on lead, so I bought a Lee Lead Hardness Test Kit and they are very accurate if you follow instructions. If you are going to stick with lead casting, you might want to buy one of these kits. ebay lead prices are from $2 to $3 a pound now, but Midway is $4 per pound.

Casting your own bullets adds greatly to the satisfaction of handloading! I started with a Coleman stove, a stainless steel pot (2 qt), a Lee dipper and a Lee mold. I fluxed with candle wax, and lubed with and old Lee pan lube sizing/lubing kit. The hardest part was controlling the temperature of the alloy; I had to watch the cast bullets to maintain an even temp. of the alloy; too hot gave frosty bullets, too cool gave wrinkles and poor fill out. Everything in-between was usable. I used this set up for about 10-12 months, producing a lot of shootable 44 cal. SWC before I got a Lee electric pot...

I use a hot plate to heat my molds but I think it would take quite a while to melt a pot of alloy, but I haven't tried. I "smelt" with a Coleman propane stove, and when mixing alloys I use a 1 qt SS pot with a single burner Coleman stove, only mixing a few pounds of lead and if the alloy works for me I go with a larger steel pot (30+ lbs)...

Been casting for nearly 50 years. All I use is WW's. From .32 S&W all the way to the 30/06 and 45/70.
Hot lead does not cause frosty bullets.........Hot molds do. I cast with 4 molds in rotation to keep them from over heating.
I also make #8 birdshot from WW's........All this saves me a ton of $$$. My WW's are free.

Be aware that a bullet’s hardness will gradually change over weeks and months after it is cast.
I have not gotten into that aspect of the properties of lead that much, but I think it tends to get harder instead of softer. You can also drop the hot bullets into water to harden them a little.
Contrary to popular thought, sometimes a softer bullet will lead the barrel less than a harder one.
Do not ever let even a single drop of water or other liquid get into the molten lead. The effect is similar to a small explosion that will spray molten lead all over everything, including your face and other parts, ceiling, work table, walls, etc.
I once had a large flying bug crash/splash down into the open top pf my lead pot while was casting a few years ago and hot molten lead was blasted all over everything. There was enough bug juice in it’s body to create the largest lead pot “ explosion “ I have ever had. Took an hour for the cleanup of the work area, and the peeling hardened splatter off of my blistered arms, neck and face. Luckily I was wearing some good glasses.

You can use your burner for a long time until you decide to get a casting pot. 1100 degrees is way more than you need. Get a thermometer and set you lead between 750 and 800 degrees and you should have easy flowing lead for your molds.

LBT molds are the best I've ever used. LEE molds work very well and you can save time by buying their 6 cavity molds.

For hardness, I quench my bullets in water as they come out of the mold. I've used wheel weights, 100% lead, Linotype and #2 from Midway. All have their purpose.

Pure lead is very soft, good for expansion and cheap. You can then make it harder by adding some Linotype to it.

Wear protective gloves, long pants, socks and long sleeve shirts when you cast.

1,000 watts doesn't mean 1,000 degrees...

BTW, pure lead melts at 621.5 degrees and bullet alloys a little higher. Bullet casting is normally done between 650 to 725 degrees depending on mold, number of cavities and size of bullet...

Too high allow temp will produce frosty bullets. But I was addressing a new/potential caster so I keep it K.I.S.S., not getting into advanced casting techniques or theory. With a normal casting speed, tempo, alloy temps too high will heat the mold too high, thus frosty bullets.

Rather than rely on anonymous forum posters I suggest the OP look for a Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook (#3 is better for a new caster if one can be found, but a #4 is OK). No old wive's tales, no "I dun it lik dis fer 72 years..."...

My mistake. I wasn't thinking properly. I still need my coffee.

Lyman Cast Bullets is a good book to read. Pouring bullets is a little more technical than sinkers but not much. I pour a lot of revolver bullets, mostly Wad Cutters and bullets for the old double digit LV stuff like 25/20, 32/20 ect up to 45/70. Unless you are in some real high class target shooting you don’t need much equipment. Melting source, pot and ladle, will get you started. You will need a sizer, Lee makes the push through kind for use on loading press, inexpensive. I make bullets to shoot, I don’t get carried away doing it. With reasonable investment you can pour a decent bullet. If you find it agrees with you then buy the bullet furnace , top of the line molds, ect. It ain’t space science.

Just to be perfectly clear about financial theories. Reloading ammunition does not save money -- you get to shoot more ammo for the same dollar amount. The first reloaded bullet typically costs about $400 in today's pricing plan.

Casting bullets saves even less money than reloading. You will now have a steady supply of bullets to go shooting more often. Your "Cheap Plan" might last for 200 cast bullets, then you will be off to the Internet to buy better equipment (more $$$), more powder and primers, and ultimately more brass to load all those cast bullets you made.

Mining bullets from a dirt berm is the cheapest lead available. I have mined, melted, cast, lubed, and shot a 1,000# of assorted cast bullets all made from 'mystery metal' mined from dirt berms or indoor range backstops. You want cheap bullets, forget the esoteric theories of metallurgy of lead alloys. Rule #1: If you can scratch it with a nail, looks like lead, you can melt it into a bullet. Iron wheel weights don't melt, zinc doesn't scratch easily. Rule #2: You will have more problems casting too cool molten lead, than if the lead is too hot. Hint: casting thermometers may not be accurate.

Don't give up, you will win! I started reloading in late 1974, and casting 30-06 bullets in early 1975. I'm still waiting to see the savings!

Does Lyman 50th edition reloading manual contain the same info as the casting manual? I read a review that said it did. If so, I need another and the price is about the same.