Peter Gunn's Holster

Here's a thread on Peter Gunn from ten years ago. T-Star ID's the gun as a Chief's Special: Peter Gunn's Gun? (JcMack says someone else ID's it as clearly a Detective Special. My guess is the the gun changes over time.) Some discussion of cross draw, too.

I am old enough I remember when the cross-draw was very popular, especially with detectives or off-duty officers with snubnose revolvers. They finally got away from it when they realized that it is easier for the bad guy to grab your gun than it is for you to grab your gun.

Craig Stevens (Peter Gunn) passed away in 2000 at age 81. RIP Craig.

Even Raleigh, NC required a cross draw back in the day . . .

Wonder if they let Barney carry 1 cartridge in that holstered crossdraw?

This spring type crossdraw holster was popular back in those days.
This one by Brauer Brothers, but almost every other maker made them.

Yeah, I too remember the Peter Gunn show, his sidekick Andamo, and the other detective shows. Plus I had a Fanner 50 six gun, and like Paladin, a little belt buckle that popped out a derringer if I could puff out my stomach enough. I don't watch much tv anyone, mostly stuff pretty unrealistic. to me.

All the best, and stay safe. SF VET

First comment, television and movie productions require dramatic effect more than anything else. Reality has little to do with directors' decisions.

Second comment, prior to about 1960 or so men's fashions differed from what we are accustomed to today. Trouser belt lines were typically above the navel, so today's high-ride strong-side holster would have been somewhere near the armpit. Suit coats were worn buttoned up, at least one button and more frequently the top two or all three buttons fastened. Walking around with your jacket open at the front was almost unthinkably trashy behavior in polite society.

Cross-draw holsters and shoulder holsters were commonly used so that the weapon could be reached without having to unfasten the jacket or dislocate the shoulder and elbow to draw from a strong-side belt holster.

When I was a teen ( I was 13 in 1958) my next door neighbor was a Sgt Homicide Detective in Seattle PD. He did not use a cross draw holster. He and his cop buddies would come over to our house to play ping pong in our basement and I don't remember ever see them use a cross draw holster.

When I was on the security force at Coast Guard Base NY (GINY to any Coast Guard people out there), we normally were not armed but if we had to go off base to pick up a prisoner or guard bank personnel (we had a bank on the base) carrying large amounts of cash, (those days are gone), we were armed with 1911s. Whoever was driving was told to switch the firearm to the left side when escorting a prisoner. That was rather awkward but doable.

Al Pacino in "Heat" liked the Cross-draw holster too. And in some shots, the holster is canted more horizontal than vertical.

sigp220.45 said:

This is an LAPD homicide detective from the 1950s. This is either a left handed cross draw or a strong side cavalry draw (or a reversed photo).

I do think cross draws were much more popular “back in the day” than they are now.

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Hopefully the detective never had to draw that gun quickly.

A little semi-official "I was there when..." history for you.
I spent my career with Denver Police in Colorado, and used a crossdraw in uniform for a few years. They issued the same or similar holster that the Colorado State Patrol issued, made by a local saddle company among other suppliers. Around half of the officers used those, mostly the really old guys, but we could use any plain black duty holster we wanted. One of the things that some cops used to do was have a leather person (holster-maker or cobbler) re-sew the belt loop to tilt the holster to around 45 degrees. I made some of my own holsters, and liked to make mine darn-near horizontal. Since I did my own leather work, word got around and I fixed quite a few holsters for the guys.
No one ever was concerned about gun-snatches, and although you might think otherwise, I do not recall a single one. One reason was that the gun butt was a convenient hand rest. Everyone I knew developed the same habit of leaning or holding that butt whenever around people. The crossdraw couldn't be grabbed from the back, and was exceptionally easy to draw when seated in a car, something we did whenever anyone came up to us, especially around housing projects.
When semi-autos were introduced in 1989, we weren't allowed to carry them in crossdraws for duty, and the practice started dying out. They completely outlawed them about 10 or so years later for all duty use.
I was told by trooper friends that the reason Colorado State Patrol wore crossdraws was because their chiefs wanted them. And since CSP was one of those "everyone wears exactly the same leather gear in exactly the same place" departments, that's just how it was.
I was told years ago what one of the previous posts mentioned, that the reason crossdraw was so popular with plainclothesmen (now there's a 1930's term!) was that they'd use their left hand to open their suit coat and reach in with the right. I also recall reading someplace that when the FBI taught drawing a gun from the strong side, they were supposed to make some sort of "quick-step" to the left, and that was supposed to make the suit coat catch air and open up enough to reach in. That always sounded kinda hokey to me, but then we are talking about the feds.
I remember quite a few of the dicks, especially the narcs, using that "cavalry-style" draw back in the old days. Some did it "Mexican" style with no holster. Cops back then, at least in the city, were notorious copy-cats, so when us youngsters saw those cooler-than-cool narcs carrying that way, you can bet a lot of us (including yours truly) tried it, too. I found it to be better suited to semi-autos, only because they were easier to hide that way than a revolver.
Nowadays, I find myself going back to crossdraw. Reverse shoulder replacement has limited my backward arm motion, so drawing from a strong-side high ride of any kind is uncomfortable if not impossible.
By the way: S&W Fan, I started with Denver in 1979, so we may have crossed paths back then.

Gunn wore a paddle Lewis ( maybe Bucheimer) due to his belt less slacks. He and Lt. Jacobi both carried the same type of snub, which seemed to change depending on which season of the show it was. Usually the snub was a Chief’s Special or a 2 inch half-moon sighted M&P square butt. Sometimes you’d see a DS and one without it ejector rod knob was used in the pilot. Lt. Jacobi was a southpaw. Most everybody else used 5 inch M&Ps.
MeTV sometimes runs Peter Gunn during the wee hours.

This is a wonderful thread. Thanks to all who posted.

I have 3 pair of those Sansabelt slacks. Khaki, Blue, and Grey.
Unfortunately the waistband has mysteriously shrunk on all 3.

Ingramite: That photo you show of the video, it looks like Pete's holster
is empty, but it also looks like the grip of a gun up where a shoulder
holster would be? I have read that in later shows he carried a 1911
type in a shoulder holster.

GerSan69 said:

A little semi-official "I was there when..." history for you.
I spent my career with Denver Police in Colorado, and used a crossdraw in uniform for a few years. They issued the same or similar holster that the Colorado State Patrol issued, made by a local saddle company among other suppliers. Around half of the officers used those, mostly the really old guys, but we could use any plain black duty holster we wanted. One of the things that some cops used to do was have a leather person (holster-maker or cobbler) re-sew the belt loop to tilt the holster to around 45 degrees. I made some of my own holsters, and liked to make mine darn-near horizontal. Since I did my own leather work, word got around and I fixed quite a few holsters for the guys.
No one ever was concerned about gun-snatches, and although you might think otherwise, I do not recall a single one. One reason was that the gun butt was a convenient hand rest. Everyone I knew developed the same habit of leaning or holding that butt whenever around people. The crossdraw couldn't be grabbed from the back, and was exceptionally easy to draw when seated in a car, something we did whenever anyone came up to us, especially around housing projects.
When semi-autos were introduced in 1989, we weren't allowed to carry them in crossdraws for duty, and the practice started dying out. They completely outlawed them about 10 or so years later for all duty use.
I was told by trooper friends that the reason Colorado State Patrol wore crossdraws was because their chiefs wanted them. And since CSP was one of those "everyone wears exactly the same leather gear in exactly the same place" departments, that's just how it was.
I was told years ago what one of the previous posts mentioned, that the reason crossdraw was so popular with plainclothesmen (now there's a 1930's term!) was that they'd use their left hand to open their suit coat and reach in with the right. I also recall reading someplace that when the FBI taught drawing a gun from the strong side, they were supposed to make some sort of "quick-step" to the left, and that was supposed to make the suit coat catch air and open up enough to reach in. That always sounded kinda hokey to me, but then we are talking about the feds.
I remember quite a few of the dicks, especially the narcs, using that "cavalry-style" draw back in the old days. Some did it "Mexican" style with no holster. Cops back then, at least in the city, were notorious copy-cats, so when us youngsters saw those cooler-than-cool narcs carrying that way, you can bet a lot of us (including yours truly) tried it, too. I found it to be better suited to semi-autos, only because they were easier to hide that way than a revolver.
Nowadays, I find myself going back to crossdraw. Reverse shoulder replacement has limited my backward arm motion, so drawing from a strong-side high ride of any kind is uncomfortable if not impossible.
By the way: S&W Fan, I started with Denver in 1979, so we may have crossed paths back then.

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This may be the holster you’re referring to, it was made by Heiser and was called the State Patrol model. Fred Mueller also made it and I believe Colorado Saddlery did as well. This one is lined, most of the ones I’ve run across were not. Some I’ve seen also had rawhide whip stitching.
Regards,
turnerriver

turnerriver said:

This may be the holster you’re referring to, it was made by Heiser and was called the State Patrol model. Fred Mueller also made it and I believe Colorado Saddlery did as well. This one is lined, most of the ones I’ve run across were not. Some I’ve seen also had rawhide whip stitching.
Regards,
turnerriver

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The Colorado State Patrol version was unlined, nearly neutral cant, and had a laced seam. CSP started out as the State Courtesy Patrol in the mid-1930s. Standard sidearm was the Colt New Service revolver carried in a cross-draw holster (originally made by Colorado Saddlery). The official badge is a 7-point star made of a copper alloy (originally from ore mined in Colorado) and struck in a die that remains in use today. Badges are numbered and are issued based upon seniority, with the longest serving active officer wearing badge #1 until retirement (I used to play cards with Candelario "Candy" Duran, badge #1 until his retirement in the early 1990s).

CSP officers were officially known as Patrolmen until about the mid-1980s. The chief of CSP held the rank of Colonel, deputy chiefs were majors, and the various districts were commanded by captains. The title "trooper" came into use in the early 1980s.

My older brother started on CSP about 1960. Uniform at that time included long-sleeved wool shirt (French blue), pink-tan trousers, black Jodpur-style short boots, necktie, and the 8-point "bus driver" caps. Cross-draw holster on a Sam Browne belt, double drop-pouch for ammunition (W-W Super Speed .38 Special), handcuffs in a snap-flap pouch at the right front. Duty revolver was a Colt Python .357 magnum. That remained the standard until the 1970's when a short-sleeved shirt was approved for summer use. The next major changes came in about 1980 when the Pythons were retired ($150 each at Dave Cook Sporting Goods where they were traded in), replaced first by S&W Model 66 and later S&W Model 686, and the caps were replaced by campaign hats (fur felt for winter, straw for summer). Late 1980's saw V-neck pullover sweaters authorized for cold weather use.

The original charter of the Colorado State Patrol provided authority to enforce traffic laws statewide, enforce vehicle registration and license plate laws, deal with the scourge of stolen automobiles, and to assist motorists stranded on rural roadways ("Courtesy Patrol" function). Later came mandates to enforce motor carrier safety laws and fuel tax license requirements. CSP remained a division of the Colorado Highway Department until the late 1980s when the new Department of Public Safety was created, absorbing CSP fro the Highway Department and Colorado Bureau of Investigation from the Department of Local Affairs.

Colorado has a long history of favoring local control. CSP has no formalized duties for criminal investigations, leaving those functions to the sheriffs of counties and police departments in incorporated cities, and no authority to interfere with local agencies or affairs. CSP troopers have full peace officer authority statewide, but no statutory duties involving crime reporting or investigations. As a matter of practice, CSP will assist local departments on request, and they will certainly apprehend fugitives or wanted persons, but otherwise confine their operations to state highways and roads in the unincorporated areas of the state.

turnerriver said:

This may be the holster you’re referring to, it was made by Heiser and was called the State Patrol model. Fred Mueller also made it and I believe Colorado Saddlery did as well. This one is lined, most of the ones I’ve run across were not. Some I’ve seen also had rawhide whip stitching.
Regards,
turnerriver

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Yessir, that is the one. As Lobo states after your post, Colorado Saddlery did CSP's, and I think they did many of ours, too. I definitely recall the rawhide stitching on quite a few. Ours had the snap reversed from the one in your photo - the rear flap was over the front one, similar, sorta, with a thumb break. The vast majority of ours were 4-inch; I recall only one 6-inch of this style, worn by a Denver Deputy Sheriff back in the late 1970s. He also had his altered to increase the angle.

LoboGunLeather said:

The Colorado State Patrol version was unlined, nearly neutral cant, and had a laced seam. CSP started out as the State Courtesy Patrol in the mid-1930s.....
The original charter of the Colorado State Patrol provided authority to enforce traffic laws statewide, enforce vehicle registration and license plate laws, deal with the scourge of stolen automobiles, and to assist motorists stranded on rural roadways ("Courtesy Patrol" function). Later came mandates to enforce motor carrier safety laws and fuel tax license requirements. CSP remained a division of the Colorado Highway Department until the late 1980s when the new Department of Public Safety was created, absorbing CSP fro the Highway Department and Colorado Bureau of Investigation from the Department of Local Affairs....

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They also guard the Governor and the State Capitol grounds.
A locally interesting bit of trivia: There was quite a bit of political dust raised when the Chief of the patrol started having "State Trooper" added to the rear of State Patrol cars, allegedly "without the permission of the Legislature." The reason was that there was still bad blood from the Ludlow Massacre in 1914, when National Guard troops and private armed guards opened fire on a miners' camp in Ludlow, killing 21 people. The stickers were removed, but as it turned out, only temporarily. They were used as part of the new silver and black vehicle color scheme with little to no comment, the color change itself taking all of the attention.

GerSan69 said:

They also guard the Governor and the State Capitol grounds.
A locally interesting bit of trivia: There was quite a bit of political dust raised when the Chief of the patrol started having "State Trooper" added to the rear of State Patrol cars, allegedly "without the permission of the Legislature." The reason was that there was still bad blood from the Ludlow Massacre in 1914, when National Guard troops and private armed guards opened fire on a miners' camp in Ludlow, killing 21 people. The stickers were removed, but as it turned out, only temporarily. They were used as part of the new silver and black vehicle color scheme with little to no comment, the color change itself taking all of the attention.

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Moving right along with the thread drift (wink, wink), the Ludlow incident of 1914 was a large part of Colorado's trend in favor of local control, distancing state government from involvement.

Some things you will probably have difficulty finding out from popular accounts of the Ludlow Massacre include the involvement of a large group of known violent anarchists, smuggled shipments of military rifles into the miners' camp, and multiple incidents of sniper fire on mining company guards and management personnel prior to deployment of the National Guard in an effort to quell the violence. The Guard personnel knew they were dealing with an openly hostile camp regularly engaged in armed violence.

I'm not saying that the use of machineguns against a tent city of miners' families was an appropriate use of force, but that followed many months of low-level warfare waged by radical labor organizers. Not a pretty part of history, but far from the one-sided accounts now presented as the whole truth.