Squarebutt
Member
A wise man said "Overkill is underrated."
.600 Overkill
- Thread starter boykinlp
- Start date
hkcavalier
US Veteran
Whatever is shot is definitely DRT.
And the shooter is also subject to DRT. Detached Retina Time.
And the shooter is also subject to DRT. Detached Retina Time.
I suggest we merge this .600 Overkill thread with the.25 “not enough thread” and just see where it goes. 
.
.ironhead7544
Member
At 72, I like the 300 Blackout.
There is no such thing as overkill on dangerous game.Be Safe,
Fun thread. I always thought I'd hunt in Africa someday but it's looking unlikely now.
The problem with these monster caliber, bolt action rifles is the hunter's inability to fire a fast follow up shot. If you use a rifle in that caliber, or any similar nastiness (.500 Jeffrey comes to mind), you better have a friend (or a PH, obviously) right by your side because if you don't get it done with one shot you might not have a chance at a followup.
.700 Nitro Express in a double rifle is different but I'm sticking to bolt guns here.
There are two kinds of dangerous game.
Big cats fall into one category. You can kill those with a host of smaller calibers if the country you hunt in allows it. Plains game calibers such as .30-06, .35 Whelen, .375 H&H, .404 Jeffrey, etc. You don't need giant killer calibers for cats because they're thin skinned. Follow up shots are relatively easy in those calibers.
Elephants, Cape buffalo, rhinoceros, and hippopotamus are in the other dangerous game category (crocodiles and alligators are usually killed with well placed head shoots and small calibers will do). These are not thin skinned so you need the big "thumper" calibers. But you often need to make one shot kills and, failing that, follow up shots are required. If your rifle sends you backwards and almost knocks you down you've lost the follow up shot capability. Assuming your failure to obtain a 1-shot kill occurs which then leads to a charge then you definitely need help.
I had a CZ 550 European bolt action rifle in .416 Rigby. See above in re planning an African hunt. A martial arts caused torn rotator cuff caused me to sell it off but it was definitely a fun rifle to shoot. Recoil was intense but as a small gent I can tell you that it did NOT rock my world to the extent that I nearly fell over backwards. A second round would have been manageable. Beyond that caliber you really need to be very good at what you're doing or you will be squashed underfoot by your target if a one shot stop fails.
I spent a considerable amount of time planning this safari before my shoulder was injured!
Ivan the Butcher
Member
I had a conversation in the 1980's with a South African Afrikaner, whose cousin what a game warden. The cousin's primary job was to enforce herd size on the velt. Most years not enough lions were sport hunted and he would have to thin the lions. I ask, "How many did he kill a year?" Answer, About 400." What caliber rifle did he use?, Answer, "270 Winchester, when they aren't excited, lions are easy to kill!"
Two or three years later we were talking and he told me his cousin had sport hunted an elephant, and killed it with one shot of 300 Win Mag. I said I was under the impression that 300 Win Mag didn't have sufficient penetration to reach the brain. His remark was, "Only stupid Englishmen shoot an Elephant in the head!" So, to me the obvious question was, "Where do you shoot them?" Answer, "Why, in the liver of course!"
Since then, I learned that is how Fred Bear killed an elephant with a bow and arrow. Ivory poachers have been slaughtering the herds with AK 47's, 6.5x54MS was a very popular elephant cartridge for ivory hunters in the 1930's thru 1950's.
So maybe there really isn't a need for the 600 Too Much & the 700 wham Bam! (But I still have my 450 3 1/4" N.E. double rifle and love my 375 H&H's!)
Ivan
Two or three years later we were talking and he told me his cousin had sport hunted an elephant, and killed it with one shot of 300 Win Mag. I said I was under the impression that 300 Win Mag didn't have sufficient penetration to reach the brain. His remark was, "Only stupid Englishmen shoot an Elephant in the head!" So, to me the obvious question was, "Where do you shoot them?" Answer, "Why, in the liver of course!"
Since then, I learned that is how Fred Bear killed an elephant with a bow and arrow. Ivory poachers have been slaughtering the herds with AK 47's, 6.5x54MS was a very popular elephant cartridge for ivory hunters in the 1930's thru 1950's.
So maybe there really isn't a need for the 600 Too Much & the 700 wham Bam! (But I still have my 450 3 1/4" N.E. double rifle and love my 375 H&H's!)
Ivan
Appropriately named. I cringe shooting 12 gauge sabots out of fixed breech guns.
Isn't anything over .50 NFA?
poprivit
Member
600OK
Heres my Robert Garnick story and photo.
.600 Overkill Bolt-Action Stopper
For when that gray freight train with tusks gets way too close way too fast.
Put yourself in this position. Botswana. You’re hunting the Sankuyo Concession. Thousands acres of thornbrush and large pachyderms. As you pass a grove of Mopani bush, a loud snapping, stomping noise erupts 30 yards to tour left – and closing!
I had just enough time to consider that the rifle I was carrying was growing smaller as the noise closed the distance. What had felt like a large .375 Ruger now began to resemble a single-shot .22. The point of a 55-lb elephant tusk will reach to a grown man’s shoulder. The tusk, itself will slide through the above-mentioned shoulder with little, or no effort when propelled by over three tons of enraged beast. Oh yeah, don’t try to run. You won’t get far. Stand and shoot. (And, in my case, wish for a much larger rifle; 600 caliber preferred.).
There is such a weapon, and it isn’t a double rifle. It’s a rifle chambered for the wildcat .600 Overkill. American Hunting Rifles –AHR - (Home - American Hunting Rifles) starts with a double square bridge CZ-550 Magnum action replete with dovetail scope mounts, controlled feed, and a match grade chrome moly barrel. Safety is 3-position that blocks the firing pin to make unloading safer. One of the nicest changes AHR makes to the bolt is to straighten the handle so that it sits in the forward area of the trigger guard. This eliminates recoil rap on the knuckles encountered with high-recoiling cartridges.
The rifle is available in many calibers, however the one we’re interested in is the .600 Overkill. This cartridge was designed by Robert Garnick of Las Vegas, my hometown. A couple of phone calls and we met on the range.
The CZ 550 action can be made to feed two cartridges from its single-stack box magazine with little gunsmithing work. With one in the chamber, you have three chances of stopping trouble before it gets to troubling you. One test showed that the 900 gr. solid brass bullet penetrated almost 6 feet of oak.
First we started with a Heym .600 Nitro Express. Now, I really don’t like the .600 Nitro. I much prefer the .577. I used a Searcy .577 on elephant a few years back – worked as advertised. The Heym resembles a 1898 Mauser Gewehr, just a lot bigger. Weight with no optics was 12.3 lb. It bounced us around pretty good, even with a 1-inch recoil pad it hurt. Penetration into 15 one-inch oak panels was through and through, leaving a .600 inch hole. The 900-gr. bullet travels at 2050 fps and carries 8,400 ft-lb of muzzle energy.
Then it was the .600 Overkill’s time in the limelight. Just in case, we set up the boards against a rock of about the same size, 12-15 lb. The first shot out of the .600 Overkill was all that was needed. All 15 panels were blown to the side and the rock split into three pieces. Guess it would do the job on a charging wounded bull elephant. Muzzle velocity is 2150 fps and muzzle energy is a tad over 9240 ft-lb.
Where the difference really showed was in felt recoil and muzzle loft. The brake and three mercury recoil reducers in the stock on the Overkill kept recoil down to a .375 H&H level. Garnick designed his own muzzle brake and isn’t making any more, however AHR offers their X-brake for $495 and I consider that not an option. The Heym Nitro recoiled so hard that the muzzle climbed to 12:00 and after two shots, stars and dots appeared in the eyes. Three shots would have been impossible.
The cartridge is loosely based on the .600 Nitro Express. However, unlike the .600 Nitro, the .600 Overkill has a belt and a rebated rim of .505 Gibbs size. Rebated means the rim is smaller than the case diameter. The .505 is rimless, so the .600 Overkill’s rim is smaller than the cartridge diameter. Mr. Garnick told me that the cartridge can be loaded to 2400 fps, however that brings some very unexpected consequences. The rifling in the Pac-Nor barrel (Pac-Nor Barreling – – Rifle Barrel Manufacture & Actions Rebarreled) is three groove with a 1:16 twist. When a 900-gr bullet travels down the barrel at 2400 fps, the torque created tries (and sometimes succeeds) in twisting the forearm out of your hand. He had a 2400 fps load on hand, but I respectfully declined the honor of touching off the trigger.
The round is 3.75 inch over all length. The CZ magazine holds two with one in chamber. Garnick tapered the case .003 inch for easier extraction. The bolt head diameter on the CZ is .700 inch, so with a rim diameter of .640, there’s only .030 inch per side to grab the cartridge. On the first rifle that Garnick built, a lot of work had to be done to the feed ramp and magazine to make the round feed reliably. Initially the magazine was re-contoured to hold the rounds in double stack, but later production rifles are single stack. AHR finesses the CZ 550 controlled feed action to feed properly and there’s no problem with cranking one up the spout or extraction. Bolt action and feed on the rifle I shot was like a well-oiled ball bearing on glass.
The CZ 550 weighs 14 lb, minimum for a cartridge of this power. It has a massive muzzle brake, but the photos show just how much the gun recoils in the hands of the cartridge developer. I shot it off hand at 25 yards twice in short order and both bullet holes could be covered by a silver dollar. For those of you shooting a .257 Weatherby, that doesn’t sound like much, but 900 grains of bullet leaving the barrel does require a large amount of concentration over iron sights. First round is relatively easy, but one does have to think a bit when it comes to lighting off the second.
AHR takes the stock CZ 500 and blueprints the action, glass beds the chrome molly barrel, laps the bolt lugs and trues the receiver face so that the lugs lock up along their entire length.
AHR offers the .600 Overkill right at $4995.00. A left hand version adds $1000 to the price. Some options include:
AHR single stage trigger - $85
Receiver mount adjustable aperture rear sight - $125
Talley one inch or 30 mm quick detach scope rings $136
Reloading dies - $239 for a 3-die set
Ammo w/900-gr. bullet - $275/20
Gunkote in lieu of bluing - $225
Gunkote is a baked-on finish that is very resistant to water, corrosion and wear.
A note on optics vs. iron sights. If you intend on using this rifle strictly for up close and personal elephant , rhino, or Cape Buffalo, stick with iron sights. Up close means 15 to 5 yards, and the critter absolutely intends on hanging you on his wall. Should you be sort hunting and want the biggest bang for your buck, then some sort of high end scope in 1-4 power, or thereabouts. Schmidt and Bender Zenith, Leupold VXIII, Swarovski Z6, Zeiss Hensolt, or similar. I have a Leupold on my .416 and it does the job, but the higher end scopes can’t be beat for light gathering and clarity. Should your shot be taken in dark brush, or right after sunset, the better scopes will definitely make the difference between a good pair of tusks, or elephant track soup.
Heres my Robert Garnick story and photo.
.600 Overkill Bolt-Action Stopper
For when that gray freight train with tusks gets way too close way too fast.
Put yourself in this position. Botswana. You’re hunting the Sankuyo Concession. Thousands acres of thornbrush and large pachyderms. As you pass a grove of Mopani bush, a loud snapping, stomping noise erupts 30 yards to tour left – and closing!
I had just enough time to consider that the rifle I was carrying was growing smaller as the noise closed the distance. What had felt like a large .375 Ruger now began to resemble a single-shot .22. The point of a 55-lb elephant tusk will reach to a grown man’s shoulder. The tusk, itself will slide through the above-mentioned shoulder with little, or no effort when propelled by over three tons of enraged beast. Oh yeah, don’t try to run. You won’t get far. Stand and shoot. (And, in my case, wish for a much larger rifle; 600 caliber preferred.).
There is such a weapon, and it isn’t a double rifle. It’s a rifle chambered for the wildcat .600 Overkill. American Hunting Rifles –AHR - (Home - American Hunting Rifles) starts with a double square bridge CZ-550 Magnum action replete with dovetail scope mounts, controlled feed, and a match grade chrome moly barrel. Safety is 3-position that blocks the firing pin to make unloading safer. One of the nicest changes AHR makes to the bolt is to straighten the handle so that it sits in the forward area of the trigger guard. This eliminates recoil rap on the knuckles encountered with high-recoiling cartridges.
The rifle is available in many calibers, however the one we’re interested in is the .600 Overkill. This cartridge was designed by Robert Garnick of Las Vegas, my hometown. A couple of phone calls and we met on the range.
The CZ 550 action can be made to feed two cartridges from its single-stack box magazine with little gunsmithing work. With one in the chamber, you have three chances of stopping trouble before it gets to troubling you. One test showed that the 900 gr. solid brass bullet penetrated almost 6 feet of oak.
First we started with a Heym .600 Nitro Express. Now, I really don’t like the .600 Nitro. I much prefer the .577. I used a Searcy .577 on elephant a few years back – worked as advertised. The Heym resembles a 1898 Mauser Gewehr, just a lot bigger. Weight with no optics was 12.3 lb. It bounced us around pretty good, even with a 1-inch recoil pad it hurt. Penetration into 15 one-inch oak panels was through and through, leaving a .600 inch hole. The 900-gr. bullet travels at 2050 fps and carries 8,400 ft-lb of muzzle energy.
Then it was the .600 Overkill’s time in the limelight. Just in case, we set up the boards against a rock of about the same size, 12-15 lb. The first shot out of the .600 Overkill was all that was needed. All 15 panels were blown to the side and the rock split into three pieces. Guess it would do the job on a charging wounded bull elephant. Muzzle velocity is 2150 fps and muzzle energy is a tad over 9240 ft-lb.
Where the difference really showed was in felt recoil and muzzle loft. The brake and three mercury recoil reducers in the stock on the Overkill kept recoil down to a .375 H&H level. Garnick designed his own muzzle brake and isn’t making any more, however AHR offers their X-brake for $495 and I consider that not an option. The Heym Nitro recoiled so hard that the muzzle climbed to 12:00 and after two shots, stars and dots appeared in the eyes. Three shots would have been impossible.
The cartridge is loosely based on the .600 Nitro Express. However, unlike the .600 Nitro, the .600 Overkill has a belt and a rebated rim of .505 Gibbs size. Rebated means the rim is smaller than the case diameter. The .505 is rimless, so the .600 Overkill’s rim is smaller than the cartridge diameter. Mr. Garnick told me that the cartridge can be loaded to 2400 fps, however that brings some very unexpected consequences. The rifling in the Pac-Nor barrel (Pac-Nor Barreling – – Rifle Barrel Manufacture & Actions Rebarreled) is three groove with a 1:16 twist. When a 900-gr bullet travels down the barrel at 2400 fps, the torque created tries (and sometimes succeeds) in twisting the forearm out of your hand. He had a 2400 fps load on hand, but I respectfully declined the honor of touching off the trigger.
The round is 3.75 inch over all length. The CZ magazine holds two with one in chamber. Garnick tapered the case .003 inch for easier extraction. The bolt head diameter on the CZ is .700 inch, so with a rim diameter of .640, there’s only .030 inch per side to grab the cartridge. On the first rifle that Garnick built, a lot of work had to be done to the feed ramp and magazine to make the round feed reliably. Initially the magazine was re-contoured to hold the rounds in double stack, but later production rifles are single stack. AHR finesses the CZ 550 controlled feed action to feed properly and there’s no problem with cranking one up the spout or extraction. Bolt action and feed on the rifle I shot was like a well-oiled ball bearing on glass.
The CZ 550 weighs 14 lb, minimum for a cartridge of this power. It has a massive muzzle brake, but the photos show just how much the gun recoils in the hands of the cartridge developer. I shot it off hand at 25 yards twice in short order and both bullet holes could be covered by a silver dollar. For those of you shooting a .257 Weatherby, that doesn’t sound like much, but 900 grains of bullet leaving the barrel does require a large amount of concentration over iron sights. First round is relatively easy, but one does have to think a bit when it comes to lighting off the second.
AHR takes the stock CZ 500 and blueprints the action, glass beds the chrome molly barrel, laps the bolt lugs and trues the receiver face so that the lugs lock up along their entire length.
AHR offers the .600 Overkill right at $4995.00. A left hand version adds $1000 to the price. Some options include:
AHR single stage trigger - $85
Receiver mount adjustable aperture rear sight - $125
Talley one inch or 30 mm quick detach scope rings $136
Reloading dies - $239 for a 3-die set
Ammo w/900-gr. bullet - $275/20
Gunkote in lieu of bluing - $225
Gunkote is a baked-on finish that is very resistant to water, corrosion and wear.
A note on optics vs. iron sights. If you intend on using this rifle strictly for up close and personal elephant , rhino, or Cape Buffalo, stick with iron sights. Up close means 15 to 5 yards, and the critter absolutely intends on hanging you on his wall. Should you be sort hunting and want the biggest bang for your buck, then some sort of high end scope in 1-4 power, or thereabouts. Schmidt and Bender Zenith, Leupold VXIII, Swarovski Z6, Zeiss Hensolt, or similar. I have a Leupold on my .416 and it does the job, but the higher end scopes can’t be beat for light gathering and clarity. Should your shot be taken in dark brush, or right after sunset, the better scopes will definitely make the difference between a good pair of tusks, or elephant track soup.
Attachments
StakeOut
US Veteran
I really like my 15-22 even with the recoil of the CCI mini mags
Grayfox
US Veteran
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBnalBzxO_k[/ame]
OP
Auto Mag
Member
Perhaps you would change your tune, if you were being charged!
The big rifles really are not that hard to shoot. I have a 4 bore rifle that will put out almost double the recoil of a 600 Overkill with no muzzle break. It is not some crazy thing that nobody can shoot. Those were the standard elephant guns for a long time. If the rifle is well designed and you are used to big rifles, these monsters are not that hard to shoot. My 4 bore does not even have a recoil pad. It has a brass butt plate. The recoil will knock you back a good 5 or 6 feet but it is not at all painful. I have never gotten a bruised shoulder from it. It does not give a detached retina or a concussion. It does not make you spin around and the barrel does not point straight up when you shoot it. If you can shoot a 458 Lott or 505 Gibbs, or something like that, these monster guns are not any trouble.
Reminds me of a story:
A 160 lb Englishman with a 16 lb. rifle shoots a 16,000 lb elephant.
The Englishman goes down.
The rifle goes down.
The elephant goes down.
Whichever one can get up divides the others' possessions according to the Law of the Jungle.
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