We disagree.
-
Forum Update: We've upgraded the software to improve security, performance, and the overall experience.
👉 Read why we made the change | Support the Forum
Tracking credit card gun purchases
- Thread starter Rpg
- Start date
We disagree.
And this is what the push for this has been about.
And who is going to make the decision that a particular purchase or series of purchases should be reported to law enforcement? My experience with minor functionaries trying to justify their jobs has never been good. I'm a competitve pistol shooter. If I buy a case of .22 rimfire shells on my credit card, and a minor functionary gets the vapors from seeing that it is 5000 rounds of ammunition, should I be expecting some badges to show up at my front door?
venomballistics
Member
I think we might agree... If we're both looking at the same thing.
venomballistics
Member
it's not so much law enforcement in the general sense that'd be called. It'd be specific agencies.
I cannot recall if the video featured here or not. but it was an audit the audit flavored deal where a BATF agent was confronted by the local constabulary .... and it devolved gloriously with the BATF agent being taken down, tazed, cuffed and stuffed and all sorts of other cheap entertainment.
How this came to be was the agent went to the residence of an individual who purchased multiple arms. The agent went to verify that the individual, in fact, had possession of these arms as it was somehow flagged as a potential straw purchase ....
It was a whole lot of action with no crime whatsoever involved.
The thing to pay attention to here is that the individual called in the agent suspecting some kind of fraud of the part of the agent.
The local constabulary simply responded to, and investigated what appeared to be a crime on the part of the ATF agent.
They did their job. It was an unusual occurrence that warranted some sorting out
The agent essentially acted upon what was little more than a transaction record. Considerably less than the threshold of the police.
In most cases, it will not be the local police or Sheriff that will be involved. They look for provable cases.
It'll be cherry picked agencies with less regard for the usual procedures of law enforcement
DWalt
Member
I can see the potential for lots of folks to be put on red flag-type watch lists for suspicious activities.
Last edited:
IronSkillet
Member
Like being a participant in a online firearms forum, just kidding that would never happen.
I predict:
Cards\accounts being canceled by anti gun banks
Expansion of the federal backdoor registration\data collection database which will eventually lead to confiscations in the future
This is just my opinion and I hope it doesn't come true
Cards\accounts being canceled by anti gun banks
Expansion of the federal backdoor registration\data collection database which will eventually lead to confiscations in the future
This is just my opinion and I hope it doesn't come true
You're probably right.
A lot of doom, gloom and apocalyptic predictions in this thread. In my ever so humble opinion, this is a nothing burger and the consequences will be zilch. Now, ignore the push to grant 16-year old's voting rights, and I guarantee that all of what is predicted here will come true.
It gets worse!
A local newspaper article reported that VISA, MC & American Express have all signed up to create a new merchant category for firearms & ammunition sales. That is bad enough.
Here is the worse, copied directly from that local newspaper article.
"Visa's adaption is significant as the largest payment network, and with Mastercard and AmeEx, will likely put pressure on the banks as the card issuers to adapt the standard as well. Visa acts as a middleman between merchants and banks, and it will be up to banks to decide whether they will allow sales at gun stores to happen on their issued cards."
My thoughts:
1 -- If the banks get involved it will kill guns, ammunition and whatever else sales which are included in the New Merchant Category. This could force small gun stores out of business.
2 -- It will affect gun shows dramatically. Making all sales cash.
3 -- It will increase person to person sales logarithmically.
4 -- It will also impact gun and ammunition manufacturers sales.
There possibly a way around these negative impacts.
The formation of a New Banking Entity which issues its own credit cards. That bank would need to be founded as a corporation with stock investors from the gun & ammunition manufacturers, privately owned gun stores, individual shooting sportsmen and sportswomen as well as sporting and firearm magazine companies.
Name suggestion: "2nd Amendment Bank - Serving the Sporting Enthusiast".
A local newspaper article reported that VISA, MC & American Express have all signed up to create a new merchant category for firearms & ammunition sales. That is bad enough.
Here is the worse, copied directly from that local newspaper article.
"Visa's adaption is significant as the largest payment network, and with Mastercard and AmeEx, will likely put pressure on the banks as the card issuers to adapt the standard as well. Visa acts as a middleman between merchants and banks, and it will be up to banks to decide whether they will allow sales at gun stores to happen on their issued cards."
My thoughts:
1 -- If the banks get involved it will kill guns, ammunition and whatever else sales which are included in the New Merchant Category. This could force small gun stores out of business.
2 -- It will affect gun shows dramatically. Making all sales cash.
3 -- It will increase person to person sales logarithmically.
4 -- It will also impact gun and ammunition manufacturers sales.
There possibly a way around these negative impacts.
The formation of a New Banking Entity which issues its own credit cards. That bank would need to be founded as a corporation with stock investors from the gun & ammunition manufacturers, privately owned gun stores, individual shooting sportsmen and sportswomen as well as sporting and firearm magazine companies.
Name suggestion: "2nd Amendment Bank - Serving the Sporting Enthusiast".
I am not sure if you noticed or not, but fedex and ups have both quietly changed their firearms and firearms parts shipping policies.
https://www.fedex.com/en-us/shipping/how-to-ship-firearms.html
How To Ship Firearms | UPS - United States
If you think it's doom and gloom, you are mistaken. This is a full court press.
FedEx Is Being Pressured to Stop Shipping Parts for Ghost Guns
This is corporate gun control. The banks are next to crack down on law abiding gun owners, mark my words.
Last edited:
Once having been a bonded courier which sometimes included shipping firearms from one place to another is all about the insurance cost of getting the product to the customer, which NO firearm manufacturer or seller is simply going to suck up should the product simply getting lost in transportation…
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
"Visa's adaption is significant as the largest payment network, and with Mastercard and AmeEx, will likely put pressure on the banks as the card issuers to adapt the standard as well. Visa acts as a middleman between merchants and banks, and it will be up to banks to decide whether they will allow sales at gun stores to happen on their issued cards."
Cabela's and Bass Pro cards are issued by Capital One Bank. Do you really think Capital One would like ditching them and losing the $$$ those generate?
Maybe Johnny Morris could start his own bank.
Cabela's and Bass Pro cards are issued by Capital One Bank. Do you really think Capital One would like ditching them and losing the $$$ those generate?
Maybe Johnny Morris could start his own bank.
Last edited:
It’s sort of funny in a way. The intention is probably to intimidate and track, the long term results will be just the opposite. A credit card is just a convenience for speedy transactions, and not a deal breaker unless you don’t have any cash. And even then there are such things as Cash Advances for many CC’s.
Now that there is an MCC (Merchants Charge Category), those who are concerned about being tracked or declined will just use cash, Money Orders, or Cashiers Checks for guns and ammunition.
I doubt most people will be too concerned unless the Credit Card companies team up with the FBI/ATF to commit some 2nd and 4th Amendment violations. I foresee a rising interest in Friend to Friend sales that will not be recorded, and I foresee more cash purchases that will not be recorded.
Terrorists and Criminals normally use cash or just steal what they want, so this won’t affect them very much.
Now that there is an MCC (Merchants Charge Category), those who are concerned about being tracked or declined will just use cash, Money Orders, or Cashiers Checks for guns and ammunition.
I doubt most people will be too concerned unless the Credit Card companies team up with the FBI/ATF to commit some 2nd and 4th Amendment violations. I foresee a rising interest in Friend to Friend sales that will not be recorded, and I foresee more cash purchases that will not be recorded.
Terrorists and Criminals normally use cash or just steal what they want, so this won’t affect them very much.
Last edited:
Puller
Member
Johnny Morris?
Yes, dang autocorrect on phone. I was in a hurry and didn't notice. I edited it.
When I worked for the government I worked with program attorneys who had no idea how things worked in the real world and I worked with data people who had no idea what their data actually meant, and I worked with both to try to get the, to understand the danger of unintended consequences when you design regulations or performance standards, without understanding the reactions and unintended consequences they create.
The International Organization for Standardization, isn’t a government agency per se but they are pushing international standards that pursue a political agenda.
In the US there will be unintended consequences *if* the US government lets merchants and banks discriminate against gun owners. As you describe, it will put an increasing number of sales on a cash only basis, and those sales will not be as easy to track.
The fact that they have so loudly announced that they will track sales at gun shops will work against the expressed goal of tracking
potential mass shooters who make large purchases stocking their “armory”.
It’s stupid, but it’s feel good policy that fits an anti gun narrative.
Exactly!.....
Cdog
Member
Online retailers will likely take the biggest hit.
Local brick and mortar stores I deal with don't like credit cards to begin with. When I by local, I always take cash.
Local brick and mortar stores I deal with don't like credit cards to begin with. When I by local, I always take cash.
DWalt
Member
So what happens when cash ceases to exist? Consider that as being distinct possibility.
Last edited:
Similar threads
