New Remington 360 Buckhammer - missed opportunity

ArchAngelCD · Feb 14, 2023

Mike said:
As far as all these short weak new northern deer cartridges....I ain't gonna buy or use any of them.

I agree.
As far as I know more deer have been taken with the old 30-30 than any other cartridge.

Many younger hunters today think they need a 300 Win Mag to kill deer. When did deer grow a hide of armor?

Back in the early 1900's if my grandfather's generation used the 30-30, the 32 Winchester Special and sometimes even the 25-35 for deer and somehow managed to put meat on the table every time. Many of those hunters thought a 30 Cal was too big a cartridge for deer.

My favorite deer gun here in the Northeast of PA is still the 30-30 levergun. That works just fine for me but nowadays I have to use a 4X power scope to see them well!

No need for anything else where most shots are under 80 yards and in heavy wooded areas. (I usually use a 170gr bullet because of the many twigs which can deflect lighter bullets)

Mr. October · Feb 14, 2023

It will be interesting to see what the trigger is like on this new effort. I liked everything about Henry's other deer offerings except the 9 lb. triggers.

DWalt · Feb 14, 2023

keithhagan said:
The 10mm is based off of the 30 Remington (one of Remington's few failures amongst many many successful cartridges). The 30 Remington was an attempt at a rimmless 30-30. It uses the same load data and everything. They have the same body size. That is why the 30-30, 30 Remington, 6.8 SPC, 224 Valkyrie, and 10mm all have the same base diameter.

Many would not consider the .30 Remington to be in any way a failure. The cartridge had a lengthly production run, well over 70 years, and a large number of very popular Remington Models 8, 81, 14, 141, and a few other rifles such as the Remington Model 30 bolt action, were chambered for it. Even the FBI and many other LE agencies and prisons used such rifles in .30 Remington prior to the 1960s. The main reason for the .30 Remington was to provide an alternative cartridge choice for those who liked the .30-30 but preferred using semi-auto or pump action rifles instead of lever action, and in that role it succeeded. For those who may not be familiar with it, the .30 Remington cartridge is just a rimless version of the .30-30 Win, but with some minor dimensional differences. Ballistics are the same.

Even though it is no longer commercially loaded (at least I think it is not), .30 Remington brass can still be found occasionally, and, if you have access to a lathe, it is not difficult to convert .30-30 cases to .30 Remington. It can even be reloaded using .30-30 dies.

Patrick L · Feb 14, 2023

ArchAngelCD said:
Many younger hunters today think they need a 300 Win Mag to kill deer. When did deer grow a hide of armor?

I agree. I used to say a 30-06 would kill anything I can drag out of the woods. As it turns out, it will kill things considerably larger than I can drag out of the woods, as the deer that I shot in 2015 proved! I killed that deer, and it darn near killed me!

Bald1 · Feb 14, 2023

300 mag? Everyone knows a 7mm mag is all you need. As long as you have exploding polymer tipped bullets…….. I actually do use some long range calibers sometimes. 7mag, 270 and such. But I use it for stands that might produce a 300 yd shot. Like a clear cut or utility ROW. It’s funny that as restrictive as NY is when it comes to firearms they allow rifles in most counties for deer and I think every county for predators. The bag limits here are pretty generous as well. Not what many of you would think about such a blue state.

IAM Rand · Feb 14, 2023

sigp220.45 said:
The why is pretty clear - in several states the .360 is legal for deer hunting and the .30/30 isn’t.

What states are those? I think cowboys of yesteryear would completely disagree. In Colorado we have a minimum cartridge, 6MM and I think 80 or 90 grain bullet. I cannot understand what the 30-30 is lacking that couldn't take anything in North America with the right load.

DWalt · Feb 14, 2023

99% of the time, using anything more powerful than the .30-‘06 represents wasted energy. At least in the lower 48.

Bald1 · Feb 14, 2023

IAM Rand said:
What states are those? I think cowboys of yesteryear would completely disagree. In Colorado we have a minimum cartridge, 6MM and I think 80 or 90 grain bullet. I cannot understand what the 30-30 is lacking that couldn't take anything in North America with the right load.

It’s not about caliber. Many Midwest states only allow straight wall cartridges. Presumably because of flat terrain. Even a 350 legend is an upgrade over a shotgun and slug. It also produces follow up shots unlike a muzzleloader. There’s definitely a market for it.

IAM Rand · Feb 14, 2023

Bald1 said:
It’s not about caliber. Many Midwest states only allow straight wall cartridges. Presumably because of flat terrain. Even a 350 legend is an upgrade over a shotgun and slug. It also produces follow up shots unlike a muzzleloader. There’s definitely a market for it.

Not sure I understand the straight walled cartridge thing. What states are these?

Just looking for 1 state that doesn't allow a 30-30.

Does that preclude all of the other necked cartridges like 270, 30-06, 308, 300 WM, 7mm Mag and all of the many, many other necked cartridge. What you are saying doesn't make sense.

Countrycuz · Feb 14, 2023

For over half my life, Iowa was shotgun slug only for deer. At the time, most farms were small and many farmsteads dotted the land. For years, hunters lobbied for rifles, and the compromise was straight wall cartridge only. This ruled out most rifle cartridges, but was better than nothing.

sigp220.45 · Feb 14, 2023

IAM Rand said:
Not sure I understand the straight walled cartridge thing. What states are these? Just looking for 1 state that doesn't allow a 30-30.

Does that preclude all of the other necked cartridges like 270, 30-06, 308, 300 WM, 7mm Mag and all of the many, many other necked cartridge. What you are saying doesn't make sense.

Here are four.

twodog max · Feb 14, 2023

I have been playing with the 38-55 lately. An ancient cartridge that is very accurate and a proven hunting round with mild recoil. There is a place for these types of cartridges but it is not a real big place. The 360 is a niche cartridge and if it and Henry are not able to pull off the Creedmore hype miracle then it will most likely be MIA in a few short years. The 38-55 sticks around due to thousands of old rifles for it, some fewer new rifles and cowboy shooting interests. For an old traditional guy like me it lets me lob cast bullets with less recoil and expense than in my 45/70 rifles.

DWalt · Feb 14, 2023

I do not know all of them, but Ohio is one, for deer hunting. For many years Ohio allowed only shotgun slugs. Not too long ago, they changed the regs to allow nearly any rifle using any cartridge having a non-bottlenecked case, .38 Special or larger, up to .50-110. There is a list of approved cartridges. An opportunity to take a long shot at deer in Ohio is uncommon. Why the change? I am not sure. The reason why Ohio allowed slugs only for deer hunting in the past was to limit extreme ranges in populated areas. I have no idea what the extreme range of a .50-110 is, but likely a lot further than a 12 gauge slug.

IAM Rand · Feb 15, 2023

sigp220.45 said:
Here are four.

Okay, maybe I missed something on one of your previous posts. I thought you said that the 30-30 was not allowed is some states. What you posted was that straight walled cartridges are now allowed in some states that weren't previously.

If the 30-30 is allowed in all 50 for hunting then it leads me back to my original point, the 360 is saying that it is comparable to the 30-30 leads me to the point that why? Do we really need the 360 or is it a new boutique cartridge that will fade with time.

Countrycuz · Feb 15, 2023

The 30/30 is not allowed in Iowa for deer hunting. It is not considered a straight wall cartridge.

murf205 · Feb 15, 2023

"I bet a few guys will never even put a round of jacketed or factory ammo through theirs! Just buy a new set of dies, reform some 30-30 brass, and rummage through your mold collection to find a nice .358" cast bullet in the 180-225 gr range." 6string, you have one of those guys waiting for the right chance to buy one of those guns, preferably a CVA Scout if they make one. Hoping the twist rate is tight enough to use this mold from Accurate. I have been contemplating a 35/30-30 for a while but it would have to be a rebore and custom dies so the 360 would be more cost effective for me IF...I can use this bunch of 30-30 brass I have.

Countrycuz · Feb 15, 2023

It appears I have to correct my self. I haven't hunted last few years so haven't kept up. Iowa hunting regulations now say bottle neck cartridges.35 caliber and above allowed like 35 Whelen , 358 Win., And 444 Marlin.

Nevada Ed · Feb 15, 2023

I did notice that the "New" 360 case was 1.8" long and the 200gr did 2,200fps.

Please not that the old Winchester .375, 200gr Ammo case was 2.02" long,
that was discontinued in the 1990's and also did a real 2,200fps.

I am wondering if the 360 ammo might work in the old 375, since ammo is hard to find and high in cost?

sigp220.45 · Feb 15, 2023

IAM Rand said:
Okay, maybe I missed something on one of your previous posts. I thought you said that the 30-30 was not allowed is some states. What you posted was that straight walled cartridges are now allowed in some states that weren't previously.

If the 30-30 is allowed in all 50 for hunting then it leads me back to my original point, the 360 is saying that it is comparable to the 30-30 leads me to the point that why? Do we really need the 360 or is it a new boutique cartridge that will fade with time.

The 30/30 is not allowed in some large deer hunting states, as noted above. Those states previously didn’t allow any rifles, only shotguns. Those states now also allow straight-walled rifle cartridges. No 30/30s. Hence these new cartridges.

Iowa, for example:

IAM Rand · Feb 15, 2023

So what I am getting is that the 30-30 is too powerful for those states. From what I am gathering is that they don't trust hunters with powerful cartridges because they are not careful to make sure of their target and what is beyond?!?!?! Sounds like a hunter safety course issue.

It still doesn't justify the 360 in anyway. As for the list you have presented above, there are a plethora of "Straight Walled" cartridges. Some of them I might say, are more powerful than the 30-30 especially if they are in a carbine format. I have a 14' 460 Mag that I could easily take out to 300 yards. I am not sure why those states are so ignorant of hunting rounds.

New Remington 360 Buckhammer - missed opportunity

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