WTK S&W M&P 4th change over pistol’s manufacture date.

Hello,
I have an M&P 4th change over, .38 S&W Special, 4 inch barrel revolver and I believe the manufacture date is 1934. Serial number 636717. Is that correct?

Thanks in advance.

Our resident K frame expert JP@AK should be along shortly, but 1934 is in the ballpark. Shipping (sales) were not normal during the Great Depression so age estimates are difficult.

The first thing to know is that S&W did not ship guns in serial number order. The factory would build certain models in large lots and place them in inventory. So often is was first guns into the vault were near the last ones out. Sales slowed through most of the 1930s, but it is likely yours shipped in the early 1930s, maybe 1931.

Or it could have remained in factory inventory for years after assembly before it shipped. Not unusual during the Great Depression. But the SN would place it as shipping sometime in the 1930s. Manufacturing dates cannot be determined with any precision. Shipping dates can if you want to pay the price for a historical letter.

murphydog said:

Shipping (sales) were not normal during the Great Depression so age estimates are difficult.

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Alan is absolutely correct. If forced to guess, I'd put it in the first half of the 1930s, but only a letter from the S&W Historical Foundation can tell you for certain.

DWalt said:

Manufacturing dates cannot be determined with any precision. Shipping dates can if you want to pay the price for a historical letter.

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And a small price it is considering the value received......Ben

Actually, the Depression shipping anomalies are somewhat exaggerated. Sales actually slowed starting in the late 1920s and some guns made in 1928 and 1929 showed a group that did not ship until the mid-1930s in serial number range 610,000 to 625,000. On the other hand, almost all guns shipped in 1931 fell between 630,000 and 640,000, so best guess is still 1931 for the OP's gun.

By 1931, some semblance of order started to return, likely due to lowered production while sales appeared to be boosted at the same time. Perhaps by the uncertainty of the future and maybe personal protection fears. Outliers still existed, but far less than in the late 1920s. Moving into the 1930s, the majority of ship dates had returned to S&W's normal hit and miss shipping order.

Here are a few known ship dates that bracket yours:


K-22 Outdoorsman serial 635964 shipped in July 1931.
K-22 Outdoorsman serial 636020 shipped in July 1931.
.38 M&P serial 637169 shipped in September 1933.

DWalt said:

Or it could have remained in factory inventory for years after assembly before it shipped. Not unusual during the Great Depression. But the SN would place it as shipping sometime in the 1930s. Manufacturing dates cannot be determined with any precision. Shipping dates can if you want to pay the price for a historical letter.

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All true!

Then again, letters tell you more than ship dates. They tell you to whom the item was shipped. Being just a bit over the top, and around the bend, I lettered every single gun in my collection---thought of the letters as the frosting on the cake.

Then there was this one very spiffy 22/40. Now I already had a 22/40, but this one was better-----A LOT better---and it was going home with me---no matter what---and it did---for $3700----a damn good price by the way---never mind anything else.

Along comes the letter. It said the usual stuff, right up until it got down to telling you about the shipping. This one was different---A LOT different!!

"We have researched your Smith & Wesson K-22 Masterpiece Model of 1940 or K-22 Second Model, caliber .22 Long Rifle in company records which indicate that your handgun--------------------was shipped from our factory on March 21, 1940, and delivered to Mr. Philip B. Sharpe, South Portland, ME----------This revolver was shipped on an advertising account at no charge to Mr. Sharpe. This is a very important revolver."

Then it said, "We trust that the information furnished will be helpful and of interest." Well, yeah---sort of----mostly it almost caused me to wet my pants!! The bad news here, more sad than bad, is the fellow I bought this gun from had owned it for TEN YEARS---and never lettered it.

Time passed, and I got old--even older---and decided it'd be best to leave behind a pile of money instead of a pile of guns. Then I called David Carroll, and asked him to "Come get this stuff and dump it." He did and he did. He dumped this one with one phone call---a rather brief phone call. Then he sent a check to me. It was a BIG one!

"Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes the bear eats you!" This was one of those times when you had bear steak for supper----with ALL the trimmings!

I am always amused, more like irritated when I see folks asking if such and such gun is worth lettering. The answer to that question goes like this: You won't know the answer until AFTER you get the letter!

The real answer is ALL the guns are worth lettering--and some of them are worth more than others---and some of them are worth A LOT more than others!!

S&W gave away A LOT of guns---some as thanks-----some to curry favor----some because it seemed like a good idea at the time. Quite possibly the very first gun they gave to Sharpe was a 38-44 Outdoorsman---to use as a test bed during his development of the 357 Magnum cartridge. What may have been the second one was Registered Magnum #2. Who knows how many others went there, and to myriad other folks along the way---before and after-------and to this day. The factory records know. Letters tell you what the factory records know----and those letters are the only game in town!!

Ralph Tremaine

Add my K22 Outdoorsman's revolver, #637,506 shipped July 1931 and 38 M&P Target, 645,174, shipped to Ed McGivern on October 31, 1933.

If you do order a letter, keep in mind that the probability of getting a big surprise as described is very low, especially so for a common revolver model made in large volume. Chances are it will letter as having been shipped to some S&W distributor, sporting goods store, etc. Shipments made to a specific individual are unusual and approach rarity. And even if shipped to an individual, it is unlikely to be anyone famous or notorious. And the letter will not provide any information at all about the gun's later travels or ownership after it shipped.

There is nothing wrong about lettering a S&W ($100). It will tell you the date of its shipment from the factory, the destination of its shipment, and possibly details about it such as whether it was blued or plated, barrel length, type of grips, etc. But if there is something highly unusual about it, such as being a special order, that might show up also.

Just do not have high expectations that you have lucked into a treasure, because that will very probably not happen. Sort of comparable to buying a lottery ticket. If the gun letters to have been shipped to Clyde Barrow or Alphonse Capone, then you can cheer.

Dr. Jinks told me to letter a M41 I had asked for a ship, date on. Turns out, it was for Barry Barringer, Special Treasury Agent in Charge, Intelligence Division at the Treasury Bldg. Also shipped in the order was a M19 for another agent on 4-13-1967. The gun for Mr. Barringer was a M41 with EFS. The pistol, as I received it, was minty, in its original box with papers and tools. Wonder why he never fired it. I got the letter and the invoice that went with it. Big Larry

One big advantage of being a SWCA member is that Roy will often tell you if the gun was important when asked for a ship date. Referencing the 38 M&P Target that I mentioned above, when I asked Roy for a ship date, he complied and added that the gun is a must letter M&P. I bought it as a nice 1930s Target revolver, but when lettered, found it was delivered to Ed McGivern, Lewiston, Montana! If there was ever a worthwhile letter, it was that one. Without the heads-up from requesting a ship date, I would have probably not ever got the gun lettered. Worth the money indeed!!

Yep, pretty interesting information to have.

I'm not a S&W collector, but a German firearms collector. I try to go as far back as I can with the guns in my collection, so this will add to the interest.

Why this particular gun? I've been looking around for one of these for a VERY long time. I never could find this particular model with the 4 inch barrel and serial number range that I needed for my "German firearms collection". I've come close, but not this close.

So, it's sorta close in serial number to the Hermann Goring S&W at West Point, and the correct model. My pistol came with the purple box and wax paper, so that's a neat addition to this. I bought it from an S&W collector at a very small gun show that I never thought I would really find much at. He also had a sales receipt from a prior owner from 2014, I guess before he received it.

It's just interesting that Goring carried and surrendered with a S&W revolver of all things. I can now show that this is the type he had, and not a German handgun. It's just a neat and interesting part of the collection now.

Tiger2Tank said:

Yep, pretty interesting information to have.

I'm not a S&W collector, but a German firearms collector. I try to go as far back as I can with the guns in my collection, so this will add to the interest.

Why this particular gun? I've been looking around for one of these for a VERY long time. I never could find this particular model with the 4 inch barrel and serial number range that I needed for my "German firearms collection". I've come close, but not this close.

So, it's sorta close in serial number to the Hermann Goring S&W at West Point, and the correct model. My pistol came with the purple box and wax paper, so that's a neat addition to this. I bought it from an S&W collector at a very small gun show that I never thought I would really find much at. He also had a sales receipt from a prior owner from 2014, I guess before he received it.

It's just interesting that Goring carried and surrendered with a S&W revolver of all things. I can now show that this is the type he had, and not a German handgun. It's just a neat and interesting part of the collection now.

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Hermann the German appreciated good firearms!

Sure looks like he did.

Speaking of the advantages of SWCA membership (which are too numerous to count), there's another one that has to do with letters:

I forget the exact numbers, but SWCA members get a discount on those $100 letters----10% maybe? Then there's that other organization----the S&W Historical Foundation---that's where the letters come from. Their members get a discount too---whatever it is.

The number I remember is the letter cost for folks who are members of BOTH outfits-----$75.

That, as they say, is not too shabby!!

Ralph Tremaine