I have an even better word for vermin like them, but I don't what to get dinged. Again.
The True Distance of a Typical Gunfight
- Thread starter SGT ROCK 11B
- Start date
I have an even better word for vermin like them, but I don't what to get dinged. Again.
This subject of close encounters is why I have become so enamored with a Colt Pony Pocketlite lately. Termed Colt’s answer to the Seecamp, it is a DAO version of the Mustang. Neat little pistol and apparently not too popular.
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I think the main goal is to ensure that the applicants can shoot, to wit, they understand gun handling, etc. IMHO, the most important part of the test, well, in Texas, anyway, was the beginning, when you shot targets that were up close and personal - and you had to do it quickly. THAT was as close as we got to simulating a real event.
Additionally, except for those of us who were very proficient, it's a test with a score so hitting the target when it's close adds points that a shooter might need if s/he cannot successfully hit a target at a distance.
And speaking of distances, there is a scenario one should consider. If you think that 22 yards is too far, and I often make remarks that if there is a lot of distance I can run and hide, but it's really not true. I should not be so cavalier about it.
Picture this - you're on the street, and someone comes towards you in a way that appears menacing but the person is at least 20 yards away, or more. You draw your weapon - and at that moment you have entered a gunfight. If the person is not a threat they'll be scared and back off and call 911 to report you - and then you should be calling 911 yourself. Never draw your weapon without reporting the incident. But let's get back to the scenario.
The perp continues to come towards you, and now it's clear the person is a perp because he's closing the distance despite your gun. You're out of your mind if you wait for spitting distance, he's only 2 seconds away.
What if it's 2 or 3 or more? When do YOU think it's time to shoot?
Rhetorical question methinks..........
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I had personal dealings with a miscreant who filed enough frivolous civil actions while relaxing in USP Terre Haute that a federal judge in the Southern District of Indiana fined him $5,000 for contempt of court and barred him from any further civil filings . . .
Time includes draw from concealment. I can do it but not quite if I must unsnap the holster strap and disengage the slide mounted safety lever. With an open top leather holster and a jean jacket I can do it all day long and twice on Sundays. With a Hawaiian shirt however it is never so good.
Look at my comment #66 on this and correct me?
Your statement here is a little too subtle for types such as me.
But then I am quite the atypical type y'know
Best to you.
Great thread.
BrianD
That is not universally true. In my state, Minnesota, there is absolutely no legal obligation to report drawing your gun, or even effectively using it to stop an attacker.
Jjrr:
No offense intended !!
If you had stated all the facts up front, I would not have responded.
By the way, my driveway is 1 tenth of a mile long. By the time I got to the end, the Police would have arrived. The main road which is heavily trafficked is only 50 feet from the end of my driveway.
I am fortunate to live in township where the response time is 5 to 10 minutes and there is heavy tall brush and trees covering my retreat where I can’t be seen from the house.
Thank you for your kind response.
No offense intended !!
If you had stated all the facts up front, I would not have responded.
By the way, my driveway is 1 tenth of a mile long. By the time I got to the end, the Police would have arrived. The main road which is heavily trafficked is only 50 feet from the end of my driveway.
I am fortunate to live in township where the response time is 5 to 10 minutes and there is heavy tall brush and trees covering my retreat where I can’t be seen from the house.
Thank you for your kind response.
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I didn't say there was a legal obligation. It's a smart move to report the fact that you drew your gun because the miscreant that you scared away can easily call 911 and say that the "XYZ guy in the red "whatever" threatened me with a gun". But if you call 911 and say "Hello, I'm XYZ and I just pulled my gun on a threat and I wanted you to know. Nothing happened but, still, I was threatened enough to take out my gun...."
See the difference?
Protected One
Member
For civilian purposes I believe it was determined (based upon the data) that 3-5 yards is the most likely distance for a self-defense shooting.
Protected One
Member
Legal obligation or not, if you have drawn your gun on someone it is wise to call 911. Otherwise the odds go up that YOU will be treated as the offender if the other party DOES call them.
This discussion has been good but if you finally determine that yes it is 3 yards or 7 yards or what have you, it may not be helpful.
The reason we say average is because we have averaged out the incidents.
What makes these things so close?
Why are the longer ones so long? What made the difference?
There are two reasons for this.
One is automobiles. This is not profound and you may not accept this but people come into more conflict when they come into more contact. Violent people are a certain percentage of the population. The fewer of them you meet the less violence you will encounter. When you come into contact with them, it will be in the way and under the circumstances in which you come into contact. In other words, we might be clearer if we said the typical distance is a car's length or less, walking to it, or getting in it or before you can get out, surprise!
Two is masking behavior. These people pretend to be innocent and blend in, "Hey I'm minding my own business..." and then at the last instant they turn and move in. You will let them get close because of y'know, laws and stuff, never mind social rules and your own social habits.
Errors we will make and we are making in this discussion:
Classification errors. We have included fights based on the weapons used and the result of the fight. Careful that your terminology does not help you prepare or defend. Ex. If your purse is snatched and the guy gets away, is that the same as when the open carry guy gets his handgun snatched? Yes both same...and different, yes but what difference does the difference make for your preparation and response? The presence of the gun does not matter. Similarly there is a big difference between attempted murder and murder, but while it is happening you do not know which class of violence you are experiencing. Please help me make this clearer.
Statistical errors. Confirmation bias is when we see what we want to see. Survivorship bias is when we do not realize that we are only including the data that we can include. Ex. We accept authorities who have experienced violent combat and won. That is fine, but we never would accept an authority whose credentials were that it never even came close to happening. Kinda like studying suicide by only talking to the ones who succeeded. Ya can't do it. I am not invalidating Givens' teaching. He knows these things and he does a good job in his classes and writing of keeping an honest perspective.
Still a good thread. Shall we keep going? I am enjoying everybody's comments.
Briand
SnidelyWhiplash
Member
I think this thread has gone into the 9mm vs. .45 type of argument.
Obviously, this is too complicated for Joe Average to understand, so I'm buying a sword cane.
That certainly was a lot of words
Yes.
It is probably not the length but the number of vocabulary words and special terminology I am using. I can make it simpler by making it longer. I can make it shorter using buzz words or by leaving something out.
Please correct me with my thanks!
Kind Regards!
BrianD
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Yes, not only too many words, but words indicative of being wholly consumed by abstract trivialities and eaten up with gunfighting theory. On my part, that's more of an observance than a criticism.
Upon what do you base this assertion?
Because quite a few reputable trainers recommend doing exactly that
Seriously?
1. Threatening someone with a firearm is a felony everywhere - 'self defense' is the affirmative defense one who pointed a firearm at someone would use to negate criminal liability. You want to be the one reporting the incident, not the one 'felony stopped' by police because John or Jane citizen saw part of the incident, believed you were the aggressor, then called in your description.
2. Video, video, video. If it happened in a public place, it is more likely than not there is cellphone, private security, or public video. Again, do you want to be a reporting party or a possible suspect?
3. If a miscreant threatened you, chances are he will try the same (or has succeeded in the same) against someone else. You are at the very least a witness, more likely a specifically targeted potential victim, and you took action (drew a firearm), so the American Bystander Rule does not apply to you. Do you care if the person who threatened you goes ahead with his criminality unimpeded by being reported to police by law-abiding citizenry?
Reporting promptly is a no-brainer even if your state doesn't require it. Do the right thing and save yourself a boatload of unnecessary trouble. Don't violate the 'don't be stupid' rule of American jurisprudence.
None of the above applies if you are an EDC flasher with a history of promiscuously exposing your weapon.
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