Forced Reset Triggers

ladder13 · May 17, 2025

I live a sheltered life. First bump stocks then this.

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/05/17/politics/device-allows-rifles-fire-quicker

“President Donald Trump’s administration agreed on Friday to permit the sale of a device that allows for semi-automatic rifles to be fired quicker, a decision that gun control activists say paves the way for more mass shootings.

The Department of Justice announced the agreement as part of a settlement between the federal government and gun manufacturer Rare Breed Triggers, in litigation brought by the Biden administration.”

“Forced-reset triggers (FRT) allow a semi-automatic rifle to be fired at an increased rate by automatically resetting the trigger after each shot. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) classified them as illegal machine guns in 2022 under the National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934. Machine guns have been heavily regulated by Congress since the NFA was passed, and the manufacture for civilian use was banned completely under the Firearms Owners Protection Act of 1986, a bill endorsed by the National Rifle Association”

pasound · May 17, 2025

Are these the same as the double-set triggers? Pull once, fire, let off, fire?
Glad this ruling happened.

Frailer · May 17, 2025

pasound said:
Are these the same as the double-set triggers? Pull once, fire, let off, fire?
Glad this ruling happened.

No, those are “binary triggers.”

A forced reset trigger mechanically forces the trigger back forward as the action cycles.

HardToHandle · May 17, 2025

My limited understanding is these forced triggers are similar to bumpstocks in theory, just a trigger that does similar. Recoil is important.

They aren’t for target work, except for filling the target with lots of holes. Open to being schooled, but not top of my list at this time.

I do like the BATF losing their try to prevent innovation. If Congress wants to change the NFA, they could have done so in last 90 years.

03hemi · May 18, 2025

ATF is being dismantled from the inside as we speak- it's a good thing.

Rodan · May 18, 2025

ATF didn't have the authority to change the definitions with respect to the statute, and had been losing in court on this issue... 'thank you' to the current administration for putting an end to a prosecution that began under the previous admin. The Feds should have to pay Rare Breed's legal costs and pay damages for the lives they ruined out of their existing budgets. No more taxpayer money to illegal and punitive prosecutions. Prosecutors and ATF agents should be sued individually for Civil Rights violations under USC 1983.

The ENTIRE NFA is unconstitutional as a tax on a Constitutionally recognized right, and all of the included restrictions fail under Bruen. It's time for the NFA and the Hughes Amendment to go away for good.

None of this has anything to do with preventing crime or violence... to do that you need to prosecute and imprison actual violent offenders, and/or recognize and deal with violent mentally ill individuals.

WCCPHD · May 18, 2025

Rodan said:
ATF didn't have the authority to change the definitions with respect to the statute, and had been losing in court on this issue... 'thank you' to the current administration for putting an end to a prosecution that began under the previous admin. The Feds should have to pay Rare Breed's legal costs and pay damages for the lives they ruined out of their existing budgets. No more taxpayer money to illegal and punitive prosecutions. Prosecutors and ATF agents should be sued individually for Civil Rights violations under USC 1983.

The ENTIRE NFA is unconstitutional as a tax on a Constitutionally recognized right, and all of the included restrictions fail under Bruen. It's time for the NFA and the Hughes Amendment to go away for good.

None of this has anything to do with preventing crime or violence... to do that you need to prosecute and imprison actual violent offenders, and/or recognize and deal with violent mentally ill individuals.

A tax on a constitutional right is unconstitutional. That was decided when the US Supreme Court ruled against poll taxes in Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections in 1966.

HardToHandle · May 18, 2025

Here’s the Dept. Of Justice announcement.

Department of Justice Announces Settlement of Litigation Between the Federal Government and Rare Breed Triggers

Today, in accordance with President Trump’s Executive Order Protecting Second Amendment Rights, as well as the Attorney General’s Second Amendment Enforcement Task Force, the Department of Justice announced the settlement of litigation between the federal government and Rare Breed Triggers.

www.justice.gov

As I have read between the lines, the BATFE maintains their ability to make interpretations of various NFA issues and dodged a potential ruinous decision in one or more of the three cases. Those celebrating on the gun rights side may want to trim their sails a bit.

venomballistics · May 18, 2025

pasound said:
Are these the same as the double-set triggers? Pull once, fire, let off, fire?
Glad this ruling happened.

no ... the FRT is even cooler.
Step one, pull trigger...
This sets the fun into motion ... pill does it's usual exit and the BCG unlocks and travels rearward as usual.
the hammer gets cocked and a round gets chambered ....
The FRT adds a party trick to this cycle, the hammers usual over travel is used to engage a cam which forces the trigger forward against your finger and will hold the trigger in this position until the BCG locks into battery. at which point, the tension you're holding in your finger is then allowed to fire again.
essentially, your finger is a spring in this system. if it were a mechanical spring, this would be a machinegun, but since it's your finger, it satisfies the one shot per pull definition of semi auto

pasound · May 18, 2025

Thanks for the explanations, members. I was thinking it was a type of binary trigger. Seems it is different. Never heard of one before.

45Smashemflat · May 18, 2025

I wonder where the Super Safety will end up at the end of the day.

venomballistics · May 18, 2025

45Smashemflat said:
I wonder where the Super Safety will end up at the end of the day.

It has an open window now due to precedent.
As I've been told of the permanent injunction pertaining to the rare breed trigger, it has very specific wording.

wood714 · May 18, 2025

As far as I know FRT's, Binary's and the Super Safety are all banned in Florida.

I know no company will ship them to Florida. I could easily have a family member from out of state buy one and mail it to me, but I'd have no where to shoot one, even if I did want one.

LVSteve · May 19, 2025

Similar deal in NV on bump stocks.

ladder13 · May 19, 2025

I believe both are legal in NC, at least for now. We have other issues.

Rocketmedic40 · May 30, 2025

Unpopular opinion here: these are silly devices that have very few legitimate uses and lend themselves to chaotic, unpredictable and dangerous gunplay.

03hemi · May 30, 2025

pasound said:
Are these the same as the double-set triggers? Pull once, fire, let off, fire?
Glad this ruling happened.

Those are binary triggers and way cooler than forced reset triggers once you get them in tune with the correct buffer tube. Plus, truly two functions of the trigger too which is why they've never been targeted..

Eddie Southgate · May 30, 2025

HardToHandle said:
Here’s the Dept. Of Justice announcement.

Department of Justice Announces Settlement of Litigation Between the Federal Government and Rare Breed Triggers

Today, in accordance with President Trump’s Executive Order Protecting Second Amendment Rights, as well as the Attorney General’s Second Amendment Enforcement Task Force, the Department of Justice announced the settlement of litigation between the federal government and Rare Breed Triggers.

www.justice.gov

As I have read between the lines, the BATFE maintains their ability to make interpretations of various NFA issues and dodged a potential ruinous decision in one or more of the three cases. Those celebrating on the gun rights side may want to trim their sails a bit.

I also maintain my ability to interpret various issues my way but as I am no more of a law making branch of the government than the ATF is my interpretation can not be held a law or legally enforced on anyone else.

Eddie Southgate · May 30, 2025

Rocketmedic40 said:
Unpopular opinion here: these are silly devices that have very few legitimate uses and lend themselves to chaotic, unpredictable and dangerous gunplay.

You are correct , it is unpopular. They are fun to play with same as actual full auto and do not lead to anything but fun. Do I have a need for one ? No , not really . Will I get one anyway ? Yes , absolutely if for no other reason than because I can. They need to strike down the NFA completely . You should be able to own whatever you want .

Rocketmedic40 · May 30, 2025

Eddie Southgate said:
You are correct , it is unpopular. They are fun to play with same as actual full auto and do not lead to anything but fun. Do I have a need for one ? No , not really . Will I get one anyway ? Yes , absolutely if for no other reason than because I can. They need to strike down the NFA completely . You should be able to own whatever you want .

Not arguing the concept, but the execution seems premature and image-blind. We only just now in this generation are crawling out of the gun-control hole of the back half of the 20th century; do we really want a bunch of yahoos with de facto machine guns pushing us back in?

Forced Reset Triggers

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