Retired LEO .357
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You got that right, I call it the coward state due to the politics deep blue. The forced registration on ARs was despicable
Be moving south shortly won’t miss it at all.
Trends You Simply Can't Stand...Feel Free To Vent Here
- Thread starter OutAtTheEdge
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Be moving south shortly won’t miss it at all.
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Ok, the word “ boolets” started on the castbullets forum many many years ago…..
sousana
Member
50cal Gold Desert Eagle in an iwb holster. Daw that at the range the other day. Asked him about it, and yeah, it's his everyday carry.
If Ruger isn’t, Henry sure is…
maxfam
Member
No rubber recoil pads.
I would have to agree as well. As much as I likesome of the modern accessories out there (they’re actually quite useful at times), I’ve learned that focusing on timeless fundamentals has been far more beneficial to me as a shooter. Learning to shoot without the gadgets has really helped me prioritize what accessories I actually need and when.
I do have to disagree on one thing you said, but it’s more a semantics thing rather than the actual point being made. Concealed carry is far from a mere hobby. Countless families still have their loved ones with them today, because someone made the choice to carry for self-defense. I think I understand the context of what you were saying though and I still agree with the underlying point…casual shooting enthusiasts who conceal but are more concerned with the accessorizing instead of the skills and knowledge. To that I agree 100%.
Bozz10mm
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"Look what followed me home" and "I added this to my stable". Also Bullpups.
rockquarry
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Concealed carry shouldn't be a hobby as it was never intended to be; it's serious business, but there is definitely a "hobbyist" faction of concealed carriers. No one really knows how large that faction is. I would guess it's sizeable, but certainly not a majority.
When concealed carriers become obsessed ("eaten up") with "printing", imaginary gunfighting scripts, daily rotation, jello shooting, bailout kits at every door in their house, carrying extra guns and a lot of ammo on their persons (and increasing all this when they go to a "bad" parts of town), having a nice handgun held for evidence, constantly dreaming of the perfect cartridge and bullet (instead of developing good shooting skills), worrying about adversaries wearing bullet-proof vests, general gadgetry, and many other such factors usually indicates a propensity demonstrated by hobbyists and paranoiacs. This is all far different than being reasonably prepared.
Squib_Load
Member
My peeve is with people's insistence on using expensive, boutique, 20 per box, hollow points as carry ammo.
They are the manufacturers' money makers. Their 20-rd boxes of self defense ammo cost more than their 50-rd boxes of target cowboy plinking ammo. Why? Because they are really good salesmen. And a lot of the 'experts' are sponsored by them.
People, the makers are playing you. They will keep making better and better, more expensive HPs that will magically expand and stop just short of exiting the bad guy. They suck you into their game to sell you the Goldilocks choice of the ones that are 'just right'. New and improved. Sexy. Best. 'Ours dump all the energy into the target.' 'Ours will expand more reliably' But not always.
They also sell velocity, and lie about it right on the box, because HPs depend on velocity. Velocity comes with recoil. That's also unnecessary.
You're simply drilling a hole in somebody. Deep holes work. No expansion is necessary. Exit wounds are ok. But you have been taught to fear it in order to sell hollow points that won't exit.
The 50-rd boxes of LRN, FMJ, WCs, SWCs, RNFPs, target / plinking ammo are all killers.
Believe it or not the bad guys don't just shrug off the wounds from them. Neither would you. Are you more confident, does it give you more courage, knowing that the bad guys are all using 115 FMJ 9mms? Are the BGs somehow tough and immune to non HP ammo? You're not. Don't attribute the BGs with more resistance to being shot than you.
"Using non-HP ammo will get you killed!" Really?
The hole bleeds along its entire depth. Why even take a chance that the high velocity, heavy recoiling, expanding bullet will stop short of damaging EVERYTHING. There are more veins, arteries, organs, bleedable tissue in front of where that bullet stopped.
End of rant.
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You're making my point.
A large part of the spare mag issue is that the vast majority of concealed carry armed citizens who carry multiple spare magazines, as well as people who have the mistaken impression they are best served by carrying the same EDC carry as an LEO, are missing a very important point.
LEOs have jobs that may require them to:
- go into dark and scary places to protect lives or property; and/or
- go into situations where the potential for multiple armed assailants exists; and/or
- go into situations knowing they may have to detain armed and dangerous individuals or groups who do not want to be detained.
As you know, in all of those situations LEOs are almost always going to call for and wait for back up before going in, because they know the level of threat involved. That is in fact why it took so long for policies regarding mass shooters to change to where sound policy now dictates the initial responding officer(s) now immediately enter and engage the assailant, rather than treating it as a barricaded suspect and just controlling the scene, calling for backup, and then letting a SWAT team make an entry after about 90 minutes, long after the situation has resolved itself.
Again as you know, in all of those situations an armed citizen should not be "going into" anything. A self defense handgun is a tool for you to extricate you or your family from a situation that has inserted itself upon you. If that armed citizen is smart they will also be using good situational awareness to keep themselves out of situations like that by recognizing the imminent threat before it develops.
Most armed citizens (and frankly most LEOs) just don't understand the numbers involved.
Even for LEOs, including the "go into" situations outlined above, (that armed citizens should be striving to stay out of) a full 75 percent of officer involved shoots require 6 shots or less fired by an officer. 90 percent of officer involved shootings require no more than 11 rounds, and 97 percent are addressed with 16 rounds or less.
In other words for an officer (or an armed citizen unwisely acting like and LEO), a pistol with a 15 round magazine and 1 round already chambered is going to have 97 percent of LEO officer involved scenarios covered, based on actual national officer involved shoot data.
Now... I'm pretty conservative so I am likely to carry a single spare magazine, but that's because dropping the magazine and inserting a fresh magazine after racking the slide is the fastest way to clear a couple types of less commonly encountered malfunctions.
I am also more inclined to carry a single stack pistol than a double stack pistol due to the thinner profile and greater concealability, which also extends to an easier to conceal spare magazine. For example a Beretta 92 Compact M single stack (8 rounds in the magazine) compared to the double stack 92:
But I am also old enough, wise enough and experienced enough to know that the more you carry the less likely you are to carry it all the time.
In other words, preparing for an extremely unlikely fringe scenario (in the already unlikely event you need to fire a handgun in self defense), just increases the risk you won't have a self defense handgun on you all the time.
https://www.policinginstitute.org/w...9/05/1.-OIS_incident_exec_summary_8.28.19.pdf
https://www.police1.com/officer-sho...-officer-involved-shootings-qc6OkmZJzaJqGXTX/
Markswheels
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Hollywood movies where an actor is using a semiautomatic handgun and when it runs out of ammunition you hear the sound of a revolver clicking multiple times. Just drives insane. Also after that they then look at the gun with an expression like, why did you stop shooting?
That and calling the bullet a "head" or a "projy". Although to be fair I first started seeing the "head" term used by bullet sellers who apparently had issues with morons buying bullets and thinking they were getting the entire cartridge - most often people buying .223" bullets and thinking it was .223 Rem ammunition."casings" - if you know, you know. If you don't, you won't.
Agreed. Although with a caveat.
In the small slice of defensive handgun uses where it progresses to the point an assailant someone actually gets shot (around 5 percent of total), the assailant will surrender or flee about half the time as getting shot with anything sucks and they don't want to get shot again. What they got shot with just isn't an issue. Even in the other half, there is not nearly as much difference as you'd think if you look at the total body of defensive handgun hits and number of shots required.
It's also in an armed citizen's best interests to really work on marksmanship to ensure they shoot far better than the average police officer (who cant hit the broad side of a barn, with hit percentages down around 20 percent). Armed citizens do not enjoy the legal and civil liability protections enjoyed by an LEO when a bystander is shot.
In that regard shooting a cheap FMJ or plated bullet handload and consequently, being able to afford to shoot several times more rounds within a given personal budget, is far more productive, than having boutique rounds you can't afford to shoot.
There's also the reality that a center of mass hit with a cheap FMJ round is far more effective than a miss with a boutique round. Shot placement is still king.
That said...
There is an argument for using hollow points to limit the potential for over penetration, given the above mentioned liability issues for an armed citizen. But there still isn't a need for an expensive boutique round.
In my own ballistic testing I have found many basic factory hollow point loads like the Hornady American Gunner or basic Winchester or Remington hollow points perform just fine, and they are a lot less expensive than the boutique loads.
It does take a little research into velocity and barrel length to ensure you are going to get the required performance in your handgun, but there are a lot of good internet resources out there. But also don't be put off by reported expansion failures in heavy clothing, or worse four layer denim substitutes. Unless you live in the frozen north, heavy clothing isn't all that common. And in the frozen north crime rates go way down in the winter as its just to cold to be out assaulting people. If you throw out those failures many older, and now inexpensive hollow point designs work well.
I've also found that the Xtreme X-Def 9mm bullets, when loaded to the right velocity, are very effective and quite affordable. The Hornady XTPs are widely available as handloading components are are quite effective, even in marginal calibers, when loaded to sufficient velocity. The 124 gr Sig V-Crown in 9mm is also available as a component and has an amazingly wide expansion envelope. Any of the above allow you to affordably shoot your carry ammo as "range ammo", which has a number of benefits.
hallendavis
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Okay, here's my two cents' worth: Any time I hear somebody bitch about a pistol trigger's "reset."
For God's sake, when I was taught to shoot back when Lyndon Johnson was in the White House, we got our fingers completely OFF the trigger as soon as the gun discharged. We didn't even think about what a "reset" was until years and years after the Glock and the rest of the Tupperware crop of pistols came onto the scene. All this crap was come up with to distract everyone from the fact that striker fired pistols have absolutely abominable, crappy, mushy triggers. What we were concerned with was take-up, any creep that might be present, the crispness and lightness of the trigger pull itself, and maybe how much over-travel there was after the sear break was achieved.
I assure you, anyone who shoots a striker fired pistol is not allowed to even pick up my Uzi. On a full-auto weapon, you'll wear the sear out in very short order if you don't make it a habit to GET OFF the trigger quickly and crisply.
I carried a .45 caliber 1911 for a couple of decades until I finally settled on the Browning Hi Power as my main go-to pistol. However, I've gotten awfully fond of my Smith & Wesson Equalizer over the last couple of years. It's a hammer fired pistol and while it's not as clean and crisp as any of my 1911s or Hi Powers, it's good enough and I shoot the gun very well.
Instead of worrying about a trigger's "reset," I think they'd be far better off concentrating on breathing, sight picture and actually squeezing (not "snapping") the trigger.
I can tell off the bat that anyone who whines about "reset" is just a kid as far as I'm concerned and they aren't as knowledgeable as they want everyone to believe.
For God's sake, when I was taught to shoot back when Lyndon Johnson was in the White House, we got our fingers completely OFF the trigger as soon as the gun discharged. We didn't even think about what a "reset" was until years and years after the Glock and the rest of the Tupperware crop of pistols came onto the scene. All this crap was come up with to distract everyone from the fact that striker fired pistols have absolutely abominable, crappy, mushy triggers. What we were concerned with was take-up, any creep that might be present, the crispness and lightness of the trigger pull itself, and maybe how much over-travel there was after the sear break was achieved.
I assure you, anyone who shoots a striker fired pistol is not allowed to even pick up my Uzi. On a full-auto weapon, you'll wear the sear out in very short order if you don't make it a habit to GET OFF the trigger quickly and crisply.
I carried a .45 caliber 1911 for a couple of decades until I finally settled on the Browning Hi Power as my main go-to pistol. However, I've gotten awfully fond of my Smith & Wesson Equalizer over the last couple of years. It's a hammer fired pistol and while it's not as clean and crisp as any of my 1911s or Hi Powers, it's good enough and I shoot the gun very well.
Instead of worrying about a trigger's "reset," I think they'd be far better off concentrating on breathing, sight picture and actually squeezing (not "snapping") the trigger.
I can tell off the bat that anyone who whines about "reset" is just a kid as far as I'm concerned and they aren't as knowledgeable as they want everyone to believe.
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"Trends I simply can't stand"
Extremely opinionated and judgmental posts...
Extremely opinionated and judgmental posts...
rockquarry
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Does that mean they are not valid posts?"Trends I simply can't stand"
Extremely opinionated and judgmental posts...
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