load data S&W #3 Target 32-44 S&W

There is a difference between those bullets and a 32 HBWC. The hollow base is very deep and very thin. They do come off and can destroy guns. Not worth the risk and not needed to provide a proper loads for a valuable antique.

As for a ballistic cannon and a strain gauge, who has one of those handy?

Hi There,

Well, you were the one that condemned all hollow base bullets.
I understand you had a very bad experience with this type of
projectile and you are now very anti-hollow base. This is under-
standable.

Cheers!
Webb

Webb

The problem with the R&S sights is that it's one of those little, goofy, beehive sites. Much like a shotgun bead. Some of those goofy sights are held in by only 1 or 2 threads on those thin barrels but most are riveted in. They drill a hole and then bell out the bottom with a special dovetail burr and then physically hammer the bead into place and the bottom squashes outward and grips the belled area just like the gold and silver letters and inlays that engravers place in steel. They hold well when they are near flush mounted, but if I make a 7/16ths inch high post (which is what is needed going from my measurements) even slight finger pressure will break it off.

I graduated from the Colorado School of Trades Gunsmithing about 42 years ago and have made my living at it ever since. But something that this really helps me with is having access to the school alumni via the internet. According to those in the know, the Rogers & Spencer's were actually regulated at 75 yards. In today's combat thinking, trying to make a sidearm into a snipers weapon is akin to putting wheels on your grandmother and entering her into the Soap Box Derby. But that was the way they thought back then.

All I'll do is cut out an extra high, half moon sight on the mill with a wide, flat base that I can low temp silver solder on to the flat on the barrel. I'll drill a hole in the underside to encompass and hide the existing bead sight, solder it on, clean it up and then file it down to the correct height at the range. My latest retirement project is to make a bunch of monoblocks, screw in Shilen barrels, solder in ribs and fit them to the Browning BSS 20 gauge SXS and make double rifles. I was initially going to cut my own receivers, but after I'm dead there will be no source for parts so I decided to just use an existing good quality, modern receiver. So making a front sight is not really a lot of work to my way of thinking. LOL

I have one of those silly, little, Garmin C1 Pro Chronographs but I too Daniels advice and bought that book, "Siguns of the Old West" by Chicoine. As promised the load data for the 32-44 Smith & Wesson was to be found there. I don't remember the exact numbers, but they cited a load of 14 grains of FFFG under a 100 grain bullet so I figured 8.7 grains would be a fairly safe place to start. I was more concerned with getting a bullet stuck in the barrel and the first 12 rounds were fired single shot and I checked each time to be certain that the bullet had cleared the bore. I'll check the velocity next time I go out but I expect what I find will be very low as recoil is sort of close to a 22 magnum.

As far as I know I am the only person in North America that has built a high pressure, bullet press for pushing stuck bullets out of rifles and pistols. Since building it over 10 years ago I have pressed out close to 500 bullets. The most bullets I have ever pushed out at once was 12 in a 44 Redhawk. Just to settle curiosity, the hardest bullet I have pressed pressed out to date was a 7MM 180 grain Lapua and I have never damaged any barrel when pressing bullets out. Nor have I ever encountered a barrel that was damaged from lodging the bullet there in the first place after I pressed them out. I have pressed over a dozen revolvers that have had the barrels filled to the point that the cylinder would no longer turn and none were damaged by the squibbs. I expect that to actually bulge the barrel in a revolver a low pressure load must be used to plug the bore and then a full power load must be shot behind it. A continuous diet of squibbs doesn't seem to damage them. But it's a practice I don't recommend because I charge $160.00 CAD to get them out.

The first video only shows half the job. The bullet pressed out fine. But then I had to drive an aluminum plug into the barrel to press out the sticks the guy had jammed in the barrel when he tried to get the bullet out himself. My way of thinking is that if I need 30,000 PSI of grease to push out a bullet. You won't soon be doing it with a cleaning rod or a stick of bamboo.

Hi There,

That is a neat set-up! You need a heavy lathe to take the pressure.

Cheers!
Webb

Webb

You actually don't need as much machine as one would think. Even at 30,000 psi once you reduce it to say a .308 diameter piston the pressure sort of gets reduced a lot. 4 ton or less I expect and it gets even less when you consider that the delivery plug goes into the barrel 3/4 inch and expands with the pressure to take up a lot of the force. I think it would be quite hard on one of the old South Bend or Boxford flat bed machines and a lot of the small bench lathes with no belly under the ways are just to light. But anything like a Colchester Student model and up would be just fine.

As far as the Speer, Hollow Base Wad Cutters skirts breaking off.
Considering the probable billions of them that have been shot over the years. I think if it was really a serious problem I would have heard about it or at least seen a few guns damaged by them after 42 years of professional gunsmithing. But, I haven't. Every once in a while you will hear of someone through the grapevine blaming a bulged barrel on them. But we do get the odd Bigfoot sighting around these parts every so often and a friend of mine swore he saw a chupacabra while coming home late in Ciudad Juarez too. I can understand how bullets which are cast to this configuration might have some cold shunts (shuts for the Mercans) or other casting flaws which could cause parts to bust off. But these Speer bullets are cold swaged from pellets so they shouldn't be subject to faults like that so I think I'll take my chances and keep shooting them. I'm not saying that it's impossible or hasn't ever happened. But I think as long as the pressures are kept to those which are generally associated with black powder, the odds of it happening are probably insignificant enough to warrant worry.

I have been shooting black powder for over 60 years and seen many configurations and theories over the years.
Yes, hollow based bullets have been around for a long time. I do not recall them ever being used for accuracy

Most black powder handguns were designed for portability and convenience. If you wanted accuracy you brought a rifle. Although I shoot flintlock rifles by choice. I also have black powder cartridge hand guns and a 45/110 Shiloh Sharps.

Experimenting with handgun loads I alway started with a round ball, even in cartridge guns. I always shoot pure lead bullets or no less than 95 lead 5 tin and NO antimony

Work from light to heavy in powder charges and bullets. And if you are using bullets you really need a chronometer. I am guessing by "ballistic cannon" you meant ballistic pendulum? I saw one of those used once.

Also, bear in mind 19th century guns were not designed for high pressure 20th century loads. I have seen two revolvers blown up, a S&W and a Colt. both cartridge guns. I do not know what they did to the S&W top break, The Colt Lighting 38 was loaded with a heavy, hard bullet and a highly compressed load of 3F, loaded with a drop tube. I suspect there was a half grain of bullseye in there for a "starter." He always loaded that way in his Sharps.

Hi There,

I take your point on the pressure reduction. A Colchester
Student lathe is a very nice lathe. I'm using a Clausing 5914
these days but I keep my SBL Heavy Ten on standby. Atlas
made a flat bed ways lathe but SBL never did.

Cheers!
Webb

I have a Colchester/Clausing clone made by Yangzhou Super Machine Tool Co. It's been a good machine and I don't know how many hours I've put on it in the last 8 years but I've never been a Colchester/Clausing fan. With gunwork you never cut the same thread twice in the same day so I prefer the old style Southbend gearbox. So I have a 30 year old heavy Dia-Fong back gear lathe with a Southbend gear box as well. The Taiwanese machines are a little heavy for gunsmith work. But anything that can be done on light machines can be done better on heavy ones, but better. I had a Colchester Mascot clone, but that 80 inch bed just took up to much real-estate. 41 inch centers is just enough for gun work and 40 is not enough.

Hi There,

A ballistic cannon is also called a 'universal receiver.'

Cheers!
Webb