A couple of questions about a Baby Chiefs Special…

wart-hog · Jul 3, 2025

This one is #30434. It has the short frame, round trigger guard, flat latch, serrated ramp sight and trigger. Matching frame and cylinder, grips numbered to a different gun.

I am curious as to when this Baby Chiefs Special was made (month/year), SCSW 4th seems to indicate early 1953 (number made, 28916, starting at 21343?).

Are these correct mini-Magna stocks? (besides being mis-matched, they do fit the short frame)

Are there any differences in stocks between Baby Chiefs and Terriers of that period?

Does this have a 2nd type flat latch?

Is this the “fine knurled early hammer”?

Any/all information would be appreciated… I can provide more info/pics if needed.

Wiregrassguy · Jul 3, 2025

I think it is probably best to wait for two-bit cowboy to comment with authority. However, I'm seeing 2" guns with serials near yours that shipped in April-June 1953 with 1st Style flat latch.

wart-hog · Jul 4, 2025

Thanks Wiregrassguy, that date would make sense by extrapolation. I would assume the Model 1953 (starting around 462XX from what I've researched) came out later in the year. So this one has a type 1 latch? Also curious about the grips (could they be Terriers) and hammer...

two-bit cowboy · Jul 4, 2025

Thank you for sharing the complete serial number of your five-screw Chiefs Special. It helps build the database.

Based on one other in the database, serial number 30445, I'd estimate yours shipped in or around April 1953.

Yes, you are correct that yours has the second style flat thumbpiece (Guy didn't study my Chiefs Special thumbpiece display in Concord closely enough last month.)

And, yes, the Terrier stocks of that era interchange with the 5-screw Chiefs Special. If your different-numbered stocks came from a Chiefs Special, their serial number would be in the 1 - 46000 range. If your stocks number 60000 or around there, they are from a Terrier.

The "1953" name is one Smith & Wesson assigned to the .22/32 Kit Gun, and it does not apply to Chiefs Specials. The last known five-screw Chiefs Special with a 2" barrel is serial number 45963. It shipped on April 30, 1954. The first known ship date for a carbon steel four-screw Chiefs Special (long oval trigger guard and ⅛" longer grip frame) is June 4, 1954.

Smith & Wesson used the small hammer on Chiefs Specials from the first one in October 1950 through at least May 1956.

Malysh · Jul 4, 2025

I have baby Chief's Special s.n. 38953. 5 screw, serrated and ramped front sight, 3rd pattern flat latch, and original stocks.

It came with a later replacement hammer. I was able to find an excellent small hammer, strut and spring, which I changed out.
Mine is in exc. mechanical condition, but shooter grade cosmetically.

Malysh · Jul 4, 2025

I have both the 1st and
2nd pattern flat latches (not for
sale), but I have kept the one on, that came with the gun.

two-bit cowboy · Jul 4, 2025

Malysh said:
I have baby Chief's Special s.n. 38953. 5 screw, serrated and ramped front sight, 3rd pattern flat latch, and original stocks.

It came with a later replacement hammer. I was able to find an excellent small hammer, strut and spring, which I changed out.

I've had yours in the database for quite a long time. The third flat thumbpiece is the correct one for your vintage Chiefs Special.

Malysh · Jul 4, 2025

two-bit cowboy said:
I've had yours in the database for quite a long time. The third flat thumbpiece is the correct one for your vintage Chiefs Special.

Yeah, I figured you did.

I think mine is probably from sometime in 1954.

Malysh · Jul 4, 2025

You're right about the flat latch. That's why I didn't change
it. I probably shouldn't have mentioned I have the two earlier pattern latches; it only lends itself to confusion.

wart-hog · Jul 5, 2025

two-bit cowboy said:
Thank you for sharing the complete serial number of your five-screw Chiefs Special. It helps build the database.

Based on one other in the database, serial number 30445, I'd estimate yours shipped in or around April 1953.

Yes, you are correct that yours has the second style flat thumbpiece (Guy didn't study my Chiefs Special thumbpiece display in Concord closely enough last month.)

And, yes, the Terrier stocks of that era interchange with the 5-screw Chiefs Special. If your different-numbered stocks came from a Chiefs Special, their serial number would be in the 1 - 46000 range. If your stocks number 60000 or around there, they are from a Terrier.

The "1953" name is one Smith & Wesson assigned to the .22/32 Kit Gun, and it does not apply to Chiefs Specials. The last known five-screw Chiefs Special with a 2" barrel is serial number 45963. It shipped on April 30, 1954. The first known ship date for a carbon steel four-screw Chiefs Special (long oval trigger guard and ⅛" longer grip frame) is June 4, 1954.

Smith & Wesson used the small hammer on Chiefs Specials from the first one in October 1950 through at least May 1956.

Thank you for the info, two-bit. One stock is numbered in the 12xxx range, so apparently a Chiefs Special set of grips. A little confused about the Model of 1953 nomenclature, it is mentioned in the SCSW 4th edition page 177 "1953:Introduction of Model of 1953 Chiefs Special (pre-model 36)".
I do have a .22/32 Kit Gun that I may post with some questions, is there a running database for those also? Thanks again...

two-bit cowboy · Jul 5, 2025

Smith & Wesson stamped the serial number on the inside of the right stock. Your stocks probably shipped on a Chiefs Special in the late summer of 1952.

Smith & Wesson never identified a "Model of 1953 Chiefs Special."

Green Frog · Jul 5, 2025

Bob,
I saw your display of Chiefs @ Concord but didn’t make the connection with your screen name here. I wish I had so I could have chatted with you on some specifics. Maybe I can catch up with you next September in Springfield(?)
Regards,
Froggie

two-bit cowboy · Jul 5, 2025

Green Frog said:
Bob,
I saw your display of Chiefs @ Concord but didn’t make the connection with your screen name here. I wish I had so I could have chatted with you on some specifics. Maybe I can catch up with you next September in Springfield(?)
Regards,
Froggie

"Lord willin' and the creek don't rise," I'll be in Springfield next year.

I sure enjoyed meeting you this year, and I look forward to talking more with you.

DRankin · Jul 5, 2025

I have two Baby Chiefs. Serial numbers 8067 and 9588. Does that put them in the first year of production?

JH1951 · Jul 5, 2025

DRankin said:
I have two Baby Chiefs. Serial numbers 8067 and 9588. Does that put them in the first year of production?

Although the "first year of production" can be defined several ways, numbers 8067 and 9588 in my estimation wouldn't fall in a first year realm no matter how we define it. Conventional wisdom tells us that the Chiefs Special came upon the scene in 1950. I have a very early three digit that shipped August, 1951, and #63XX that shipped February, 1952. Although it would take a letter to peg down when yours truly shipped, yours likely shipped after my later one that went out in 1952.......
Bob's extensive database can give a very good estimation. I'm sure he will be along soon with better information.

two-bit cowboy · Jul 6, 2025

DRankin said:
I have two Baby Chiefs. Serial numbers 8067 and 9588. Does that put them in the first year of production?

I am one who believes "first year" equates to a calendar year. Only 19 Chiefs Specials shipped between October and December 1950; the highest serial number was X59, an experimental model with a 3" barrel and square butt.

The highest serial number we know of that shipped in 1951 is 1825.

Smith & Wesson did not ship in serial number order, and 1952 Chiefs Special shipments prove that adage very well. Heck, we even see seven with 2xx serial numbers that didn't ship till January 1953.

I would suggest your two Chiefs Specials shipped between May and September 1952. I'd almost be willing to bet money both of your Chiefs have this oval-shaped thumbpiece and smooth ramp (not serrated) front sights, too.

20. June '52 Baby Chiefs Special (2).jpg

Since you have already shared the serial numbers with us, how 'bout giving us the specifics about each of your Chiefs to fill in details in the database (i.e., finish (blue/nickel), stocks (probably magna, and does the right one have the serial number stamped on the inside?)?

We like pictures, too!

Green Frog · Jul 6, 2025

Bob,
PM inbound. Please remind me where you posted (once upon a time, IIRC) a set of images of the variations of the various flat latches. Or was it in SCS&W? Never mind on the flat latch question… it was a thread you replied to in April, of 2023.

two-bit cowboy · Jul 6, 2025

Froggie,

That post is far out of date. I believe I'd seen four flat thumbpieces at that time. Now the count is at seven.

You'll see an updated article in the Journal at some point in the future.

Green Frog · Jul 7, 2025

No, this one showed all seven, Bob.

Post in thread '"Flat Latch" history'

Apr 27, 2023

With the exceptional help of two-bit cowboy, I have identified the flat latches on three of my J Frames- a Centennial from 1953 (3rd. style); an Airweight Chiefs Special from 1957 (5th. style); and a Baby Chiefs Special from 1951 (1st. style).

Your post #9 showed pictures of all 7 variants with detailed explanations.
Good job, too!

two-bit cowboy · Jul 7, 2025

Well, thanks, Froggie, but two things:

1) I'd forgotten I made that pdf, and more importantly ...

2) It's out of date!

Time marches on, new information appears, and history gets rewritten.

As my display in Concord showed the 1st and 2nd flat thumbpieces have now swapped positions. We now know serial number 32 shipped on December 26, 1950, and it wears the new 1st style flat thumbpiece, along with serial numbers 16, 54, 99, and 101. Between oldsmithcollector and me, we own three of the five, and I know who has the other two.

News Flash! Hot off the press! And all that other journalism rot ...

Last week a friend sent a photo of Chiefs Special serial number 10 to me. It has a flat thumbpiece, and it shipped on December 6, 1950--the second Chiefs Special to ship! I'm still digging so stay tuned to this station for news as it develops.

A couple of questions about a Baby Chiefs Special…

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