New 617 for use in Steel Challenge

On my 617 4" and 6", If I back out the strain, I will get a mis-fire under 9-1/4 lbs.. I shot 150 rds each of CCI & Rem SV the other day, The CCI run a little cleaner, I have tried around 25 types of ammo, The CCI shorts, CPRN, 1080 FPS, 29 gr., runs the cleanest, and works great at 15 yds.. clean the cylinders very well after shooting shorts, trying a couple more types later, after shooting 60-70 rds, eject the empty cases, clean the cylinder out well with a toothbrush, you will have less sticky problems, just my 2 cents, good luck..

DesmoDog said:

I did clean under the extractor... but now I can't recall if it was before or after I shot it last week. That's something I'll have to keep an eye on. I clean the cylinder after every range trip, I should add cleaning under the star to that too.

I shot about 150 rounds of CCI Clean through this and it was nothing but trouble to extract. CCI SV has been no problem to extract but it misfires about 2% of the time.

I ordered a trigger gauge this afternoon so I can keep track of settings. After I replace the firing pin I'll start tightening the set screw to see what it takes to get SVs to fire more reliably.

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I've been using the TK Custom spring kits and they suggest you can get down to 8.5 lbs DA trigger pull. I started at about 9 lbs or so and then backed the strain screw down 1/2 turn until I got misfires. Then I increased the strain screw about 1/4 until it stopped misfiring. Sometimes I give it another 1/4 turn to make sure.

I put in the Apex Mass Driver Hammer and was able to get it down a little more.

When I use my trigger pull gauge I try to put the gauge where the middle of my finger presses the trigger and make sure I pull straight back the same way every time.

Just a thought. I've been listening to Nelson Ford's You Tube channel, and one of the things he had mentioned was the need for the cartridge to be seated firmly into the chambers. If there not, then the hammer, thru the spring loaded firing pin, uses some of its energy to push the cartridge in the rest of the way before it can then dimple the primer rim and ignite the cartridge.

My 617 extracted hard and I also had to force cartridges into the chamber as it got a little dirty. Once I got ahold of a Manson finishing reamer and ran that thru my cylinders, all the cartridges drop in on a clean chamber and drop out after firing.

I too had a lot of misfires and have the TK custom extended firing pin in my gun. Reaming the chamber made the gun run very well and satisfied me on its extraction/loading and firing.

I was surprised how much metal was removed when I reamed the cylinder. Why this is necessary and not done at the factory is beyond me, but it made a world of difference.

DaveS48 said:

I think most of the failures to fire issues have been talked about in this thread, just make sure it is clean around and under the extractor star.

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I checked out that area and it didn't look bad but it wasn't spotless either. I cleaned it up and shot another 110 rounds of Golden Bullets and got 1 failure vs the 7 I got last time. But the other ammo I shot after didn't seem affected? I don't know. In any case, better performance from the same box of ammo today.




When I got home from the range the new extended firing pin was here. This one measures 0.508" vs the 0.500" that was in there (and a 0.490" stock IIRC). I installed it this afternoon so can shoot it in the next couple of days to see if it makes a difference. A trigger gauge was shipped today, which will help me know what sort of baseline I have before I play around with trigger pull more.

The chamber was reamed a while back, rounds fall into place by gravity (at first), and I run my thumb over all of them before closing the cylinder so for the most part they are all seated well. The right ammo will eject easily even after 200-300 rounds.

I tried out the new firing pin a couple days ago and saw pretty much zero change. Or not enough improvement to be happy with. The trigger gauge hasn't shown up yet so I can't get a decent baseline number, but I turned the strain screw in another 1/2 turn and tried that today. I brought tools with this time so I could adjust it as needed.

I'll skip the small details, the gist of it is I shot 365 rounds of various ammo and got 1 failure to fire. I didn't clean anything along the way. The trigger is still manageable, so I'm calling it good to go for now.

I do have a question though - I said one failure but there were two, maybe? Here's what happened. I got to the 10th round and had a failure. I pulled the trigger again to go around and get it the second time, but that 11th pull fired. I ejected the casings and there were no unfired rounds so it's not like I lost count. So my question is -

Is it possible to reset the trigger without advancing the cylinder? Maybe by not releasing the trigger all the way or something? I've suspected this was happening before but wrote it off that I had lost count of rounds fired or something. But this time I'm almost positive my count was right? More research to do.

Over all I'm tentatively happy with things. I'll have to repeat that performance to be sure but so far it looks good. I had to withdraw from the match this weekend but the following week I'll take it out for it's debut. I was shooting... maybe "fast" is an overstatement but I wasn't going slow today and my accuracy was good enough for steel challenge. I won't be matching my time with a semi-auto any time soon but I think I'll be alright for a first time with a revolver.


EDIT: I really need to start googling questions before posting them. Yes it seems it is possible to reset the trigger without advancing the cylinder. So now I have to wonder how many "failures" have actually been user error? Ya learn something new every day...

DesmoDog said:

I tried out the new firing pin a couple days ago and saw pretty much zero change. Or not enough improvement to be happy with. The trigger gauge hasn't shown up yet so I can't get a decent baseline number, but I turned the strain screw in another 1/2 turn and tried that today. I brought tools with this time so I could adjust it as needed.

I'll skip the small details, the gist of it is I shot 365 rounds of various ammo and got 1 failure to fire. I didn't clean anything along the way. The trigger is still manageable, so I'm calling it good to go for now.

I do have a question though - I said one failure but there were two, maybe? Here's what happened. I got to the 10th round and had a failure. I pulled the trigger again to go around and get it the second time, but that 11th pull fired. I ejected the casings and there were no unfired rounds so it's not like I lost count. So my question is -

Is it possible to reset the trigger without advancing the cylinder? Maybe by not releasing the trigger all the way or something? I've suspected this was happening before but wrote it off that I had lost count of rounds fired or something. But this time I'm almost positive my count was right? More research to do.

Over all I'm tentatively happy with things. I'll have to repeat that performance to be sure but so far it looks good. I had to withdraw from the match this weekend but the following week I'll take it out for it's debut. I was shooting... maybe "fast" is an overstatement but I wasn't going slow today and my accuracy was good enough for steel challenge. I won't be matching my time with a semi-auto any time soon but I think I'll be alright for a first time with a revolver.


EDIT: I really need to start googling questions before posting them. Yes it seems it is possible to reset the trigger without advancing the cylinder. So now I have to wonder how many "failures" have actually been user error? Ya learn something new every day...

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I’m not sure what you mean by reset the trigger.

With the 617 you can shoot Single Action or Double Action.

When shooting single action the cylinder rotates when you cock the hammer. You can then pull the trigger to fire or pull the trigger and lowering the hammer without firing. In either case the next time you cock the hammer the cylinder will rotate.

When shooting double action the cylinder rotates early on in the trigger pull and at the end of the pull it releases the hammer. If you start the trigger pull the cylinder will rotate and if you release the trigger without firing you will have bypassed that cylinder because the cylinder will rotate again the next time you pull the trigger. You can partially pull the trigger and the cylinder will keep rotating and not fire.

Hope that makes sense.

I’ve been anxiously awaiting the trigger pull weight results, hope you get the gauge soon.

Have fun at Steel Challenge, I’m shooting both Rimfire revolvers again this Saturday.

DesmoDog said:

I am a relatively new shooter (started a little over a year ago) who started going to Steel Challenge events last fall. At first I used a Taurus TX22 Competition in the RFPO. After two events with that I added a 10/22 to the mix and am now shooting in RFRO also.

Add to this a general interest in revolvers and I started casually looking at inexpensive .22LR revolvers. One thing led to another and I ended up ordering an S&W 617 so I could use it in Steel Challenge. I picked that up yesterday so here's a thread on how that goes.

If you're going to use a revolver in steel challenge you have to have a speed loader too, right? Obviously I also got a SpeedBeez set up - the loader along with a block/box for 100 rounds. I plan on going to the range tomorrow to try out a few different types of ammo.

A little more background - I'm a retired development engineer with a couple 3D printers, so of course I started playing around with printing ammo trays instead of buying more. Yes, I could reload the box I bought every other stage, but where's the fun in that? I put together a 50 round tray, and am currently printing a 100 round version of it. I will likely over complicate it and print out some system to have multiple trays for the entire event but for now it's simple trays. Here's the 50 round tray with a test part to make sure the settings were good.

It will be getting a dot. I got a Weigand mount, but haven't decided on the optic I'll use yet. I did get an Osight XR but I think I'll put that on a different gun, and take the Holosun 507 I have on that one and put it on the 617? The first one or two range trips will likely be with the stock sights.

I plan on putting about 500 rounds through it before deciding on changing any springs, but I suspect I'll be going that route to get a lighter trigger pull. I also suspect I'll be reaming the cylinder. I'm registered for another Steel Challenge event this weekend, but it's going to be a while before I get that stuff worked out, so I doubt I'll be shooting this in SC for at least another month or so. I will probably use it at the local league at the end of the month though. The last week is always limited to 10 rounds to even things up - I usually only need 9 anyway but the TX holds up to 20, which gives me an advantage over the Ruger guys. If I can only use 10 rounds I may as well use the 617!

So... the adventure begins. More on the story as it develops.

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Love mine shot it in optic and iron sighted rim fire revolver.

The trigger gauge was waiting for me when I got home last night. I don't have the numbers in front of me so this is from memory - but this morning I found the trigger was at a little over 7lbs according the new gauge, MUCH lower than I thought it was. So I turned it up to closer to 9 lbs and found that at that setting the spring was interfering with the boss for the screw that holds the grip on.

Time to mod the grip. I shaved off a little of the boss and removed material so I could I'd have access to the strain screw without removing the grip. In the ongoing discussion of using the screw to adjust spring tension - my take is, if the factory didn't forsee this they wouldn't have put a feature in the mold to indicate what to remove to do this.

Anyway, with the trigger set to around 9lbs I went back the range. Shot 300 rounds with zero failures. 200 Golden Bullets and then 50 CCI SVs before I backed the screw off half a turn and shot 50 rounds more. The CCIs were more troublesome than the GBs earlier so I figure they are worst case for what I'm going to be shooting. I'm not interested in setting it up to shoot everything I can find, if it works with this ammo I'm good.

To sum it up, the gun now shoots 300 rounds of the top two ammo types I wanted to use with zero failures. A couple of the cylinders were hard to eject after about 160 rounds but nothing major. It's ready for Steel Challenge. I'm probably going to experiment with backing it off more but not before the match this weekend. The 7lb pull sure was nice but the misfires weren't. ;-)

I didn't take a photo of the boss mods but the grip looks like this now. I probably could have gone smaller on the hole but this is a tool, not a showpiece... and a new grip is $30 so whatever.

DesmoDog said:

The trigger gauge was waiting for me when I got home last night. I don't have the numbers in front of me so this is from memory - but this morning I found the trigger was at a little over 7lbs according the new gauge, MUCH lower than I thought it was. So I turned it up to closer to 9 lbs and found that at that setting the spring was interfering with the boss for the screw that holds the grip on.

Time to mod the grip. I shaved off a little of the boss and removed material so I could I'd have access to the strain screw without removing the grip. In the ongoing discussion of using the screw to adjust spring tension - my take is, if the factory didn't forsee this they wouldn't have put a feature in the mold to indicate what to remove to do this.

Anyway, with the trigger set to around 9lbs I went back the range. Shot 300 rounds with zero failures. 200 Golden Bullets and then 50 CCI SVs before I backed the screw off half a turn and shot 50 rounds more. The CCIs were more troublesome than the GBs earlier so I figure they are worst case for what I'm going to be shooting. I'm not interested in setting it up to shoot everything I can find, if it works with this ammo I'm good.

To sum it up, the gun now shoots 300 rounds of the top two ammo types I wanted to use with zero failures. A couple of the cylinders were hard to eject after about 160 rounds but nothing major. It's ready for Steel Challenge. I'm probably going to experiment with backing it off more but not before the match this weekend. The 7lb pull sure was nice but the misfires weren't. ;-)

I didn't take a photo of the boss mods but the grip looks like this now. I probably could have gone smaller on the hole but this is a tool, not a showpiece... and a new grip is $30 so whatever. View attachment 875467

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I’ve been waiting to hear the results of the trigger pull gauge.

7 lbs is a little light. TK Custom says 8 1/2 lbs with their kit. I’ve been ably to get down a little less than that. I have also added the Apex Mass Driver Hammer which got it down a n little more.

The grips I have been using for the 617 round butt slide on from the bottom have a screw that comes up through the bottom of the grip that goes into a stirrup on the bottom of the grip frame to hold the it on. I don’t have a screw through the grips that would get in the way.

I’m not sure what feature is in the mold that indicates what to remove, none of my grips have anything.
I did look at an older 617 square butt with rubber grips my lady friend has that uses a screw through the grip panels. I did see a spot that looks like where they injected the rubber into the mold but would have never thought it marked where the strain screw was. Smith and Wesson tells you to keep the strain screw tight.

I do have some old grips that I modified to access the strain screw when I set it but take them off when I am finished. I should also mention that I have no revolvers with the original grips still on them.

I shot Steel Challenge for the second time last Saturday with the two 617’s.
Last month I had extraction issues using CCI Mini-Mags so this month I used CCI Clean HV and had no extraction issues and again no failures to fire in the 300 rounds plus a few make-up shots.

I have gotten the trigger pull on centerfire revolvers down under 6lbs but that requires fully seated Federal primers. They won’t shoot factory ammunition.

DaveS48 said:

I’m not sure what feature is in the mold that indicates what to remove, none of my grips have anything.
I did look at an older 617 square butt with rubber grips my lady friend has that uses a screw through the grip panels. I did see a spot that looks like where they injected the rubber into the mold but would have never thought it marked where the strain screw was. Smith and Wesson tells you to keep the strain screw tight.

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I ordered a stock replacement grip for it and will take a picture when it shows up. However, it occured to me this morning that the feature in the grip may be to provide clearance for the head of the stock screw.

And I think I mentioned it but yeah, if the screw has a feature to tighten down to then sure, keep it tight, but changing to a set screw means the "tight" concept no longer applies and loctite is your friend.

I hope to get the trigger pull measured again today and do a second round of testing at the range... maybe even back it off a bit more before loctiting it in place for this weekend's match.

Well that didn't go as expected.

Before heading to the range I thought I'd take a reading with the trigger gauge. Long story short, strange thigns were happening, I'd turn the screw in and the readings would drop. Finally the trigger failed, it would cock but pressure from the mainspring wasn't there.

I thought maybe it had broken but instead found that the slotted top of it had slipped out from under the post doohickey on the trigger gizmo. (I'm pretty sure those are the official terms anyway). The spring was also not the same shape as it was when new. I'm guessing it got bent pressing up agains the boss I eventually removed?

Out with the new and in with the old, the original mainspring was reinstalled. I left the 13lb rebound spring in, took it to the range, and backed the set screw off until it started to misfire, then wound it back in again until it didn't misfire. It shot 100+ rounds at the setting it is now with no issues, so I'm going to loctite it in place and run it like this. I was shooting as fast if not faster than I expect to in a match and everything worked fine. Of course my accuracy dropped when I sped up but that's not the gun's fault.

I have no idea where the trigger pull is now. The readings I was getting before the spring failed were so inconsistent I didn't trust them anyway. The first pull would be 8lbs something and the next would be 5 something. I tried to keep everything the same with each pull (angle of gun, angle of pull, position on trigger) but still. With the stock spring in it got better, the number I started at was around 8 IIRC.

I'm done screwing with it. Time to try it out and see how it works. The pull is what it is, the ammo will be Golden Bullets, and it shouldn't need to be cleaned during the match though I did get a few cylinders that were hard to eject along the way. By that I mean I needed two hands to eject them rather than the single hand fast reload type stuff the instructor showed me.

I’m not good with technical terms but I guessing the post doohickey and trigger gizmo is the hammer stirrup that attaches the top of the mainspring to the hammer. Pic below.

Measuring the trigger pull on a double action revolver is not my favorite thing. I try to make sure nothing interferes with the cylinder rotating during the measurement because that can definitely add to the trigger pull. Also excessive over-travel, or a trigger that hits the frame abruptly, can make it difficult to get consistent measurement. I “try” to stop when the hammer falls. The 3lb swing in trigger pull is kind of high, I’m usually well under 1lb. I take a couple for practice and then average of 5-10 and throw out any I may have screwed up.

In my earlier post I said “Smith and Wesson tells you to keep the strain screw tight.”, that’s what they say, not necessarily what I do. Been playing with strain/set screws for over 25 years and have plenty of LOCTITE.

As I mentioned in an earlier post:
“The grips I have been using for the 617 round butt slide on from the bottom have a screw that comes up through the bottom of the grip that goes into a stirrup on the bottom of the grip frame to hold the it on. I don’t have a screw through the grips that would get in the way.”
Below are a few pictures.

Annnnddddd.... the first Steel Challenge match has been completed.

I should be classified as a "C" when they run the numbers on Wednesday. I barely made it to a C, but I made it. I've been a "C" my first time out in RFPO, RFRO, and now RRO. Apparently I've made it a tradition.

The first stage was Pendulum and I screwed that up in a huge way, with both the revolver and my TX22. I started with the 617 and when I stepped up to the line it was like I had never done this before. I've put 3000+ rounds through this thing already and it still felt like I had never shot it before. My grip felt wrong, the trigger felt wrong, I missed numerous times. I may not be all that fast, but I usually don't miss much. The timer jokingly told me he was afraid I'd have to reload. I shared his concerns. Pretty sure I went through 9 rounds, may have even been all 10.

Anyway, 11.88 seconds my first time through. First time as in first run. One run, 11.88 seconds. For reference, my cumulative time for four runs is 12 something with the TX22. Yikes. Ok, settle down, you know how to do this. I got down to a 6.39 second run which is still slow but better. Cumulative score was in the "D" range. Ouch. I then had a couple misses on the stage with the TX22 and ended up with an 18.58 second score which is also pretty horrible. I typically pooch the first run of these things which is why I chose this as my first stage. I already have an "A" score on Pendulum for my classifier with the TX22 so no big worry but dang, not a great start to the day. The guy running the timer told me he is a Master in RFPO (92%) but is only a "B" in RRO so I shouldn't feel bad for my first time with the 617. (He wasn't shooting it today because "I've fixed it so much it doesn't work anymore"... a cautionary tale I presume)

Things got better after that. I settled down, my hands stopped shaking so much. Second stage was Accelerator and with the TX I was getting the first shot off in 0.4something so the timer realized I actually had done this before. With the revolver I did have two misfires in the first three stages so I cranked the strain screw in another half turn and made the next two stages with no failures. Putting a hole in the grip for screw access was a good choice, it took me maybe 30 seconds to make the adjustment.

FWIW - I shot about as well as expected with the TX22. I got two more "A" times, one in Roundabout which I expected and one in Smoke & Hope, which I didn't expect. Showtime did not go as well as I expected so that tempered my excitement. Typical day, I was slightly disappointed when I left but felt better when I saw the final scores.

The Michigan State Championship is in two weeks, I'm shooting in the RFPO and RRO divisions. I have zero chances of winning anything, but I'm hoping to be in the top 4 in the RRO class. My chances are good since there are only 4 of us registered so far. Two of them are GMs in RFPO I think, so best case I'll be shooting for 3rd place. When we registered we were all Unclassified but I just checked and the two GMs are now classed as Bs in RRO... the bastages have been practicing!

Good luck. I know all too well how all your practice and muscle memory goes out the window when the beeper goes off

I shot another Steel Challenge match yesterday. All 8 stages, no mid-match cleaning, no malfunctions, and on a couple stages I even got the sense that maybe I was starting to get a feel for this thing. My times were still not great but were at a mid-C level instead of a "Geeez I hope I get into the Cs " level. I even managed to go faster than a couple people with semi-autos.

The State Championship match is next Saturday. There are now 5 people registered in the RRO division so my desired top 3 finish is in jeopardy. I'll have to beat twice as many people to get there!

DesmoDog said:

The State Championship match is next Saturday. There are now 5 people registered in the RRO division so my desired top 3 finish is in jeopardy. I'll have to beat twice as many people to get there!

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I shot this match yesterday and a top 3 isn't going to happen. The one guy I am closest two in times for RFPO beat me by a few seconds and the three guys shooting today are all GMs in other divisions so it looks like I'll be 5th. I can be happy that I shot one stage at a "B" level though, got to take the victories where you can.

Once again I got through the entire match with no cleaning or malfunctions. Inconsistancy is my main issue still, on the first stage I had a horrible first run of 11 something seconds, by the time I got to the last run of that stage I was in the 3s.

Now that this match is over I'll be backing off of shooting. I'll still shoot a match once or twice a month but there are other things I need to start putting more time into.

The only issue to report with the gun is, I ran more Remington SVs through it and got horrible keyholing, turns out that ammo (unplated bullets) leads up the barrel something fierce. I could barely get the cleaning rod through it afterward and spent a lot of time trying to de-lead it. I did a quick check of the barrel after the match yesterday (Golden Bullets) and didn't see any leading, but it's something I'll have to keep my eye on.

The match itself didn't go as well as I had hoped with the TX22 either. My only real victory there is I shot well enough to get bumped to "A" class overall which was my main goal for the day. I thought I'd have it nailed by the 4th stage or so, but it came down to the last stage. I knew that I'd have to average 3.1 seconds per run to make it. First came in at 3.3. Second at 2.8. Third 3.3 again. Fourth 2.something. I did the math in my head on what I needed for the 5th run, didn't get it, and thought I had missed out, but when I went to authorize the final time I saw I had done the math wrong and I had made it by 0.3 seconds. Small victories. I may have also won the B class (two more left to shoot today) so I suppose there's that too.

Oh, I also won 250 rounds of 9mm ammo when I registered, which is nice! I may shoot a match with my PCC with it, seems fitting somehow and would give me another classfication to start chasing...

EDIT: All scores are in. I took 4th in RRO because one of the GMs didn't shoot. I placed 9th overall in RFPO which is a surprise, and won the B class for RFPO which is a good swan song I guess, considering I'll be an "A" after they do the reclassifications next week.

I shot another match over the weekend and felt like I was starting to get the hang of this thing. I improved my times on 5 of the 6 stages we shot, cutting just shy of 12.5 seconds off my total time. I'm flirting with an overall "B" classification now.

However... not sure if I've mentioned it but I'm having an issue with the barrel leading up. It's bad, if I use bare lead bullets the range day will end with keyholing. Even after 150-175 rounds in a match I get a lot of lead when I clean the barrel afterwards. I contacted S&W about it after hours today so will hopefully hear something from them soon. I envision sending it back for whatever it is they can do, then getting serious about progressing with it.

I also found out my RFPO results placed me 3rd overall in the "B" class in the state tourney, so I'll be getting some sort of award. Probably also contracts with various companies, TV appearances, those sorts of things... I'm sure the calls will start rolling in any day now.

DesmoDog said:

I shot another match over the weekend and felt like I was starting to get the hang of this thing. I improved my times on 5 of the 6 stages we shot, cutting just shy of 12.5 seconds off my total time. I'm flirting with an overall "B" classification now.

However... not sure if I've mentioned it but I'm having an issue with the barrel leading up. It's bad, if I use bare lead bullets the range day will end with keyholing. Even after 150-175 rounds in a match I get a lot of lead when I clean the barrel afterwards. I contacted S&W about it after hours today so will hopefully hear something from them soon. I envision sending it back for whatever it is they can do, then getting serious about progressing with it.

I also found out my RFPO results placed me 3rd overall in the "B" class in the state tourney, so I'll be getting some sort of award. Probably also contracts with various companies, TV appearances, those sorts of things... I'm sure the calls will start rolling in any day now.

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Try running a bore snake through the barrel after every stage (or even after 2 stages). while everyone is standing around waiting anyway. I wouod do this as well as a brush stroke or two in each cylinder hole and a quick toothbrush under the extractor star. The whole process takes less than five minutes and keeps the gun clean and functioning 100% through the match. Also makes clean up easier.

My goal has been to avoid doing any of that during a match. Some of the places I shoot don't have safe tables near each stage but it doesn't need it after each stage either I suppose. Extraction hasn't been an issue overall (I have an occassional hard extraction but it doesn't stay that way), and with the right ammo it doesn't seem that the leading becomes a problem during a match, that's more a training thing when I may shoot 300+ rounds in one outing. I think it's worse than it should/could be. Still waiting to hear back from S&W about it.

My next match will shoot all 8 stages, but I'm shooting the 10/22 instead of the 617. I have yet to shoot Speed Option with the rifle and want to get a time for that so my overall time is "complete" or whatever. I'll be back to the revolver after that though. Don't tell my wife but I've seen where guys have a 6" 617 for RRI and that has a certain appeal to me... my local shop had a used one in stock but I think it's gone now, may have to check next time I'm there.

Try shooting Federal Bulk Pack Copper plated 36 gr. HP 22LR. I’ve been shooting them for 20+ years because they shoot great and reliably in all my rifles and pistols of various manufacturers. I have several S&W revolvers in 22LR, models 617, 17, 18 and 63 and they shoot great in all of them. I setup two 617-6 revolvers with Alchin mounts and Holosun 507Comps in Red & Green. I let my shooting buddy’s try them out, now they all own one. Yes, I’m an enabeler…. We never go to the Range without them.

I've never known what the difference is between those and the Golden Bullet 36 gr, but I can try them out some time. I just got another 1000 rounds of Golden Bullets, plus the 400 I had already, so I'm good for the next few days anyway.

I shot a 6 stage match on Saturday and on the last run of the last stage missed 3 shots in a row. Not to blow my own horn but that never happens. When I got home I cleaned the barrel and got a few 1/4" long strips of lead out of it plus a lot of smaller stuff. So basically it went from as clean as I could get it, to (I suspect) keyholing and a leaded barrel in just over 150 rounds. This with Remington Golden Bullets which are not bare lead bullets. A guy on my squad also has a 617 and said his never does that. I called S&W today and they sent me a return label. I shipped it out this afternoon so we'll see what they find when they get it.

Before I sent it back I returned it to stock condition. Stock firing pin, stock springs, stock strain screw, pulled the dot, reinstalled the rear sight, and replaced the grip with an unmolested one. I decided not to try shooting it in the stock configuration though, what would be the point? Obviously I'll try it in stock form when I get it back though.

Other news from the weekend -aside from the state championship, I've never seen another rimfire revolver at a match. On Saturday there were three of us, one was even on my squad so we had two. A lot of guys have also shown interest in the division, with many of them commenting they are considering getting something to shoot in it. Popularity might be growing?

I'm also still improving in RRO, as opposed to RFPO where I seem to be struggling to maintain the level I'm at. In RRO I shot two more stages at a "B" level time so I'm getting close to a B overall. It was a lot easier getting there with RFPO and RFRO...

I haven't got the gun here anymore but I've been adding parts to the collection. A TK Custom trigger showed up a couple days ago, and today I got an email notification that Apex hammers were back in stock. I hope they're worth it because I ordered one about five minutes after opening the e-mail.

When it gets back hopefully the leading won't be an issue. I'll have a trigger, a longer firing pin, lighter springs, and an Apex hammer waiting. As far as I can tell that's about it for what I can do to it myself. It's got almost 6000 rounds through it at this point so I'm not going to bother with polishing/stoning anything, other than to make the aftermarket parts fit if needed.

Fingers crossed that it doesn't stay at the mothership too long, I've got a revolver match in October that I need it for!

DesmoDog said:

I haven't got the gun here anymore but I've been adding parts to the collection. A TK Custom trigger showed up a couple days ago, and today I got an email notification that Apex hammers were back in stock. I hope they're worth it because I ordered one about five minutes after opening the e-mail.

When it gets back hopefully the leading won't be an issue. I'll have a trigger, a longer firing pin, lighter springs, and an Apex hammer waiting. As far as I can tell that's about it for what I can do to it myself. It's got almost 6000 rounds through it at this point so I'm not going to bother with polishing/stoning anything, other than to make the aftermarket parts fit if needed.

Fingers crossed that it doesn't stay at the mothership too long, I've got a revolver match in October that I need it for!

Click to expand...

I also got the e-mail that the Apex was back in stock, but while I was waiting to get one I read a post somewhere that the hammer upgrade didn't work out for that person, he still had to use the stock spring to prevent misfires. Let us know how it works out before I order one.

DS-10-SPEED said:

Your cost is great but the time it takes is too long to make them in large quantities. Over the past 20 years I've probably made 1000's of them in 5,6,8,9 and 10 shot versions in various configurations. I made master plates from steel and drilled them with a drill press, very fast but I got tired of making them. I have a CNC machine now but it still wasn't as fast as my old method.

My grandson wants a 3D printer, I heard Bambo Labs makes a good one.

View attachment 863474

Click to expand...

Bamboo labs makes some amazing printers with heated enclosures to eliminate warping and sensors that compensate for movement caused by the machine itself on surfaces that wobble a little, like a wood table, making them extremely fast.

DesmoDog said:

I am a relatively new shooter (started a little over a year ago) who started going to Steel Challenge events last fall. At first I used a Taurus TX22 Competition in the RFPO. After two events with that I added a 10/22 to the mix and am now shooting in RFRO also.

Add to this a general interest in revolvers and I started casually looking at inexpensive .22LR revolvers. One thing led to another and I ended up ordering an S&W 617 so I could use it in Steel Challenge. I picked that up yesterday so here's a thread on how that goes.

If you're going to use a revolver in steel challenge you have to have a speed loader too, right? Obviously I also got a SpeedBeez set up - the loader along with a block/box for 100 rounds. I plan on going to the range tomorrow to try out a few different types of ammo.

A little more background - I'm a retired development engineer with a couple 3D printers, so of course I started playing around with printing ammo trays instead of buying more. Yes, I could reload the box I bought every other stage, but where's the fun in that? I put together a 50 round tray, and am currently printing a 100 round version of it. I will likely over complicate it and print out some system to have multiple trays for the entire event but for now it's simple trays. Here's the 50 round tray with a test part to make sure the settings were good.

It will be getting a dot. I got a Weigand mount, but haven't decided on the optic I'll use yet. I did get an Osight XR but I think I'll put that on a different gun, and take the Holosun 507 I have on that one and put it on the 617? The first one or two range trips will likely be with the stock sights.

I plan on putting about 500 rounds through it before deciding on changing any springs, but I suspect I'll be going that route to get a lighter trigger pull. I also suspect I'll be reaming the cylinder. I'm registered for another Steel Challenge event this weekend, but it's going to be a while before I get that stuff worked out, so I doubt I'll be shooting this in SC for at least another month or so. I will probably use it at the local league at the end of the month though. The last week is always limited to 10 rounds to even things up - I usually only need 9 anyway but the TX holds up to 20, which gives me an advantage over the Ruger guys. If I can only use 10 rounds I may as well use the 617!

So... the adventure begins. More on the story as it develops.

Click to expand...

I have a 10/22 but recently bought a Tippmann (AR style .22 LR). what a blast on plates and Texas star, dueling tree etc. And they have a mag loader that is amazing. Dump in a box of 50, shake it and then turn the crank and it loads a 25 round mag in seconds. Anyway, I like your holders and there are a ton of engineering grade materials out there now as I'm sure you know. PLA is cheap but there are so many choices. Thanks for making your designs available online.

John_M52 said:

Bamboo labs makes some amazing printers with heated enclosures to eliminate warping and sensors that compensate for movement caused by the machine itself on surfaces that wobble a little, like a wood table, making them extremely fast.

Click to expand...

Nothing against Bamboo printers, but neither of those features are unique to Bamboo. Input shaping/resonance compensation is used in pretty much every modern printer above entry level. There's no need to print an ammo tray out of ABS or nylon or whatever and there's little issue with warping on more typical filaments. I've had a printer with a heated enclosure for a couple years now, print using some of the more exotic materials on occassion, and I've never used that feature. I should have a few times, and probably will if I start printing large ASA parts again, but it's not a game changer for the typical home user.

In any case, 3D printers still aren't fast enough to make manufacturing something like an ammo tray feasible in a production setting. They are great for the home use guy. Amazing even. But there's a reason print farms have rows and rows of printers running at all times. They're freaking slow in the world of mass production.

For a while I sold some custom 3d printed battery holders for certain model Ducatis with a specific mod. Not exactly a large market for them. Anyway... I used ASA and was very careful about the conditions and set up when printing them. It got tedious pretty quickly (and both of the guys in the world who wanted one had already ordered one) so I stopped. Now I'm the lazy guy who doesn't do calibrations for each new filament material (Guess your best, it'll be fine) and takes shortcuts when printing stuff out for himself. I have more failures but it's more fun too. ;-)

DesmoDog said:

Nothing against Bamboo printers, but neither of those features are unique to Bamboo. Input shaping/resonance compensation is used in pretty much every modern printer above entry level. There's no need to print an ammo tray out of ABS or nylon or whatever and there's little issue with warping on more typical filaments. I've had a printer with a heated enclosure for a couple years now, print using some of the more exotic materials on occassion, and I've never used that feature. I should have a few times, and probably will if I start printing large ASA parts again, but it's not a game changer for the typical home user.

In any case, 3D printers still aren't fast enough to make manufacturing something like an ammo tray feasible in a production setting. They are great for the home use guy. Amazing even. But there's a reason print farms have rows and rows of printers running at all times. They're freaking slow in the world of mass production.

For a while I sold some custom 3d printed battery holders for certain model Ducatis with a specific mod. Not exactly a large market for them. Anyway... I used ASA and was very careful about the conditions and set up when printing them. It got tedious pretty quickly (and both of the guys in the world who wanted one had already ordered one) so I stopped. Now I'm the lazy guy who doesn't do calibrations for each new filament material (Guess your best, it'll be fine) and takes shortcuts when printing stuff out for himself. I have more failures but it's more fun too. ;-)

Click to expand...

We probably ran through more than a dozen printers. Had multiple SLA’s for prototypes and making masters for molds. The 3D improvements eventually made those obsolete they got so good. The last few we bought were bamboo with multiple reels. They were very fast and accurate for masters and molds for cast urethane parts and we could also use production quality materials for small quantities. For us the heated chamber was critical. We would outsource other additive printing like nylon sintering. Hard to justify a $25,000 tool to injection mold a dozen parts.

I just grabbed a 617 Mountain Gun for Steel Challenge. I had fun doing it with my 43C and needed something a bit more competitive. I'd like to keep the Mountain Gun completely stock. I've done one range session so far and shot about 100 rounds, mostly cheapo Winchester Wildcat. Two of those didn't fire on the first hit. Then I tried a cylinder of Aguila and one of those didn't go the first time. I finished up with some Federal bare lead solids and all of those fired. Next time will be "better" ammo, actually older ammo with a better track record. My 43C really loves my 40 year old Remington Thunderbolt. Between match preparation and the actual match I probably fired 400 rounds without cleaning and didn't have any problems. The cylinder did not bind and there was no keyholing. I can only hope that the Mountain Gun will perform as well.

DesmoDog said:

I am a relatively new shooter (started a little over a year ago) who started going to Steel Challenge events last fall. At first I used a Taurus TX22 Competition in the RFPO. After two events with that I added a 10/22 to the mix and am now shooting in RFRO also.

Add to this a general interest in revolvers and I started casually looking at inexpensive .22LR revolvers. One thing led to another and I ended up ordering an S&W 617 so I could use it in Steel Challenge. I picked that up yesterday so here's a thread on how that goes.

If you're going to use a revolver in steel challenge you have to have a speed loader too, right? Obviously I also got a SpeedBeez set up - the loader along with a block/box for 100 rounds. I plan on going to the range tomorrow to try out a few different types of ammo.

A little more background - I'm a retired development engineer with a couple 3D printers, so of course I started playing around with printing ammo trays instead of buying more. Yes, I could reload the box I bought every other stage, but where's the fun in that? I put together a 50 round tray, and am currently printing a 100 round version of it. I will likely over complicate it and print out some system to have multiple trays for the entire event but for now it's simple trays. Here's the 50 round tray with a test part to make sure the settings were good.

It will be getting a dot. I got a Weigand mount, but haven't decided on the optic I'll use yet. I did get an Osight XR but I think I'll put that on a different gun, and take the Holosun 507 I have on that one and put it on the 617? The first one or two range trips will likely be with the stock sights.

I plan on putting about 500 rounds through it before deciding on changing any springs, but I suspect I'll be going that route to get a lighter trigger pull. I also suspect I'll be reaming the cylinder. I'm registered for another Steel Challenge event this weekend, but it's going to be a while before I get that stuff worked out, so I doubt I'll be shooting this in SC for at least another month or so. I will probably use it at the local league at the end of the month though. The last week is always limited to 10 rounds to even things up - I usually only need 9 anyway but the TX holds up to 20, which gives me an advantage over the Ruger guys. If I can only use 10 rounds I may as well use the 617!

So... the adventure begins. More on the story as it develops.

Click to expand...

The new smith plates give a lot of choices for red dots.

https://www.smith-wesson.com/product/c-o-r-e-revolver-red-dot-mount

I user LPA WXT rear site with an ACRO and love it.