glock 380

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Kahr P380s are a funny thing to me. I consider myself a Kahr fan- there's a PM9 in the pocket at the moment I've had for a dozen years and has never malfunctioned in any way and is an extraordinarily good-shooting gun. I always surprise myself how well it shoots for me.
Plus I had an MK40 Elite back in the day, but not being a .40 guy- I didn't own any .40 dies or components back then- I let it go. It, too, was a perfect runner.
And we also had our hands on a couple of other 9mm Kahrs via our classes, a K9 (really liked that one) and a CW9 and they, too, were fine.
So I won't agree that Kahr has quality issues, with the possible exception of the .380. Since I don't have much more evidence one way or the other on them, I hesitate to generalize.
But a nephew picked up a P380 and it didn't run well for him at all. I forget his final solution; I think it was to restrict it to only a couple of ammunitions that it did run well with.
Then again, we did see a P380 go by in the rental rack that ran well in our hands, so who knows. Maybe Kahr has a dog in the house.
 
Phenix said:
Not THAT much difference in real life.
Especially if multiple hits can be obtained.
The more hits, the less caliber matters. I doubt if a coroner or surgeon could look at a wound channel without a recovered bullet and tell if it was made by a 380 or 9mm. Or a .38 Special. Or a .32 of any kind.
Nobody wants to be shot with anything.
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Its not about what the coroner or surgeon can tell. A bullet with more energy does more damage and penetrates deeper.
 
I haven't bought anything from Sig since the fiasco started with their P320. Trust in any firearm is critical and it affects the entire product line. I trust the Glocks I have owned and carried while I was an active LEO and after. I am content at my stage in life with a G-42 and a G-48 depending on the situation.

I owned a couple of LCP's thinking they might be better than the Glocks I had, but they fell woefully short of my expectations in all regards. Same for the BG-2.0. Not my cup-o-tea. Others may like them, but not me. I don't carry any type of fancy, expensive pistol for EDC work. They are normally pretty stock items that I have no real attachment to and can be easily replaced if necessary. If you are involved in a shooting situation you are going to lose your firearm for what could be a long time. I don't care to have an expensive pistol tied up sitting in an evidence locker for years. The only notable changes I made to my EDC pistols is that they both have Dot optics on them which can be easily justified in a court of law.

I have two primary missions when carrying an EDC. One is absolutely no one must see that I am carrying a firearm. Concealment is of utmost concern. Surprise is lost if someone sees you have a firearm especially a bad guy. Second, I will not take random shots at anyone to avoid hitting an innocent person. It does absolutely no good to take out a perp only to also take out an innocent bystander. Target identification and isolation is paramount and must be adhered to.

I try to keep things simple in my mind and I like to think I would react as I should based on my past training and experience. There was a time many years ago that I never thought I needed to carry a firearm unless I went into the big city. That isn't the case anymore as experience has shown otherwise.

Rick H.
 
I've hip pocket carried every day for the last 25 years...Every day. Comfort matters. Proficiency matters . Glock 42 , Ruger lcp, Lcp max, keltec p3at, sig 238, bg 2.0 have all been carried. For me, the 238 works best. I can shoot it more accurate than any of the others. I wish it were lighter than 15 ounces unloaded, but the extra weight may be why I shoot it well? Everyone should carry what they're comfortable and proficient with IMHO.
 
Phenix said:
Caliber is not that important.
Having a functioning gun you can hit with at short range, and the will to use it if necessary is all that matters.
The barrel does not even need rifling to hit a human torso at defensive use distances.
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Ya know what they say about opinions, Just like armpits, everyone has one and they all stink. Sorry, but your statement about caliber is not important is your opinion. I do respect that it is your opinion but there are folks who are MUCH smarter than I who beg to differ. Some say my 9mm EDC is not big enough. I will follow what FBI has said. Here is one of many guntuber who asked an expert this question.



That said, I agree, at short range (What do you call short range?) of 10 yards or less you do not need a match quality handgun. Plus, anything is better than nothing.
 
chief38 said:
I was and am still very surprised Glock has never countered Sig's P365. IMHO what Sig did with that pistol is amazing and after owning and shooting a Micro for almost 7 years & 9,000 rounds, Glock has been bested as far as I am concerned. In 9K rounds I can not ever remember any failures.

I see Glock's specialty as a uniformed LEO's pistol. IMO the Glocks are just too thick, heavy and large for civilian EDC. Their reliability however as a LEO's piece or a civi's house gun is excellent - can't take that way from them!
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That’s what sets the brand apart, it’s the go to choice of those in the know….
 
justwippet2006 said:
I bought a Kahr P380 with the very same thought. It ended up being one of the worst guns I've ever owned for several reasons:
-It would never reliably cycle any type of ammo. Kahr claimed it needed to be broken in but, once I hit the 500 round mark? I gave up. Even my gunsmith said, "Kahrs are a roll of the dice. You got snake eyes."
-The slides are ridiculously difficult to rack. The design of the gun requires a really stout recoil spring. I ended up buying a Handi Racker just to help me lock the slide back.
-The rear Trijicon night sight that came on the P380 was very sharp and sliced up my hands (every P380 that I've seen is the same way). Because the slide is so small and so hard to rack you pretty much can't avoid hitting the rear sight.
-With that said, it was a great pistol when it worked. It was accurate and easy to shoot. It just wasn't worth the downsides to keep it.

Now I carry either a Bodyguard 2.0 or P365 depending on the weather (I'm in Florida) and both have been 100% reliable. I have a Glock 25 in .380, by the way. What a fun range toy!
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My best friend of over 40-years (ex-military) owns a Kahr 9mm concealed carry sized pistol. It has been back to Kahr twice for the "fluff and buff" and still won't feed anything but FMJ 9mms. A worst choice with the exception of the Sig P320, ask ICE and USAF, and others. He refuses to carry it for CCW, and I believe it is a "worst buy" with very poor Kahr Customer Service. A bit off track for a S&W Forum, but my two cents in answer to justwippet. He is looking at HK presently.
 
I don’t have a G42, and it’s been a while since I shot one. They were good shooters as I recall, for .380. I think in many regards, it was sized just about right to retain shooting and handling characteristics for a majority of shooters without becoming too small to adequately offer reasonable recoil impulse. Are they that much larger in profile than a S&W Bodyguard 2.0? They don’t hold a lot of rounds, but Glock single stacks are reliable. Personally I’d like to see Glock offer something small in .32ACP, size-wise similar to Secamp but with sights for those of us who still prefer to aim.
 
Rob613 said:
Your post didn’t say anything about caliber, you said “Glocks”…the Glock 42 is made by Glock.

This thread is also about Glock 380’s.
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Yes you are correct that in my original post I did not mention caliber. The entire genius of the P365 upon its release was it was the first pistol of it's kind in 9mm and I had temporarily forgotten it is also available in 380 acp. Wether or not you were aware the .380 version did not come out until 4 years after the original 9mm I do not know, so I guess I can give you the benefit of the doubt. Be that as it may, I doubt many actually buy the P365 in .380 when a much more powerful cartridge is available for the pistol. IMHO one of the best carry guns in .380 is the new improved 2025 version of the Ruger LCP Max. It weighs 40% less, it's much smaller, thinner and concealable while still holding the same round count in a flush magazine.

I was never a fan of .380 acp for self defense purposes unless one is just not able to handle a 9mm pistol or has a hard time concealing a Micro 9. IMO the 10.5 oz. Ruger only recoils slightly less than the 9mm in the Sig P365 - obviously a result of the difference in weight and size.
 
I had s .380 Glock a few years back. I can't even recall why I let it go, because it was outstanding!
As for the 9mm vs. 380 debate, I did a bit if research at the time, mostly hunting for good carry ammo ( ended up going with some factory Fiocchi loaded with premium Hornady projectiles).
One YouTube video i found showed a guy shooting a .380 at a car windshield, from a very oblique angle, ultimately trying to hit a melon.
Well, to my surprise, it ripped right through the windshield, wasn't at all deflected, then hit the melon, and blew it to smithereens!!!
That completely changed my long-held view that the .380 was unworthy of serious consideration for a self-defense EDC.
 
Phenix said:
As much as I love my G42 and BG 2.0, I have to admit the Kel-Tec P32 tempts me sometimes as a third option for special carry situations.
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P32-Though it shoots 2 " low at 7 yards, it will shoot 1.5 in group slow fire. 150 rounds with no issues.
 
chief38 said:
Yes you are correct that in my original post I did not mention caliber. The entire genius of the P365 upon its release was it was the first pistol of it's kind in 9mm and I had temporarily forgotten it is also available in 380 acp. Wether or not you were aware the .380 version did not come out until 4 years after the original 9mm I do not know, so I guess I can give you the benefit of the doubt. Be that as it may, I doubt many actually buy the P365 in .380 when a much more powerful cartridge is available for the pistol. IMHO one of the best carry guns in .380 is the new improved 2025 version of the Ruger LCP Max. It weighs 40% less, it's much smaller, thinner and concealable while still holding the same round count in a flush magazine.

I was never a fan of .380 acp for self defense purposes unless one is just not able to handle a 9mm pistol or has a hard time concealing a Micro 9. IMO the 10.5 oz. Ruger only recoils slightly less than the 9mm in the Sig P365 - obviously a result of the difference in weight and size.
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I personally don't put the LCP Max in the same class as the G42 or BG 2.0 since it’s not rated for +p ammo, which…to me…is a must for carrying a .380. Nice guns, just not for me.

I’ve owned and shot all 3, and had a P365 or two at one point. I’m a Glock guy though.
 
Deadeye Dick said:
Have to agree with this. Why opt for a lesser caliber in the same sized package? If recoil is the problem (and I don't believe their is that much difference) you need to practice more and/or do some exercises to improve grip and wrist strength.
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My reply was to the guy who said the P365 is 9mm. I said it is also available in 380. As to choice ... to each their own. We had a lady recently shoot the 9mm and 380 versions of the P365. She liked and bought the 380. And she passed on the Glock 42 and the S&W Bodyguard 2.0. Like I said ... to each their own.
 
Rob613 said:
I personally don't put the LCP Max in the same class as the G42 or BG 2.0 since it’s not rated for +p ammo, which…to me…is a must for carrying a .380. Nice guns, just not for me.

I’ve owned and shot all 3, and had a P365 or two at one point. I’m a Glock guy though.
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I understand you like the +P for the extra velocity however even that does not reliably expand out of a 3" barrel at the marginal extra velocity. IMHO with a .380 short barrel pistol the key is to use FMJ ammo. Since expansion in a 380 is not truly a reality, you might as well get good penetration which is more important anyway.

It's been quite a few years since I have personally chronographed .380 acp ammo so please correct me if things have vastly improved. Please don't quote the info printed on the ammo boxes as they are usually tested in test barrels, not 3" barrels and of course "wishful thinking" at best.
 
I have both .380 and 9mm in S&W and Glock. the main difference to me is the cost of the Ammo. I have found that the 9mm is so inexpensive vs the .380 it's not worth it to reload it. Where as the .380 cost much more to buy it is worth the reload price.
 
chief38 said:
I understand you like the +P for the extra velocity however even that does not reliably expand out of a 3" barrel at the marginal extra velocity. IMHO with a .380 short barrel pistol the key is to use FMJ ammo. Since expansion in a 380 is not truly a reality, you might as well get good penetration which is more important anyway.

It's been quite a few years since I have personally chronographed .380 acp ammo so please correct me if things have vastly improved. Please don't quote the info printed on the ammo boxes as they are usually tested in test barrels, not 3" barrels and of course "wishful thinking" at best.
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You’re assuming I carry JHP, I don’t carry JHP in .380 or round nose FMJ.

I carry, flat nose Buffalo Bore Hardcast +p, Tim Sundles takes a lot of flack but the guy knows ballistics.
 
Arik said:
Its not about what the coroner or surgeon can tell. A bullet with more energy does more damage and penetrates deeper.
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I think my Winchester .380 95 grain FMJ Flat Points will penetrate far enough, and at least potentially do more damage and have a straighter wound channel than a Round Nose FMJ in the same caliber. They typically penetrate over 20 inches in ballistic gel for what that’s worth.
 
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chief38 said:
Yes Sir, I am aware. I don't quite get why someone would be in the market for a P365 in .380acp when the 9mm is available for the exact same sized gun. Not to hi-jack the thread, but IMO the .380 is not even in the ballpark of the 9mm cartridge (and yes, I am aware it can still be effective IF shot placement is good enough). The 9mm P365 is very controllable even for most women I have let shoot my pistol. One of the students I taught is exactly 5' 0", around 105-110 pounds and shoots the P365 like her .380 10.5 ounce Ruger LCP Max. She bought the Ruger first and then after letting her try my P365 she went out and purchased one too.
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I have 2 of those Rugers, and tried to like them.
They are okay in most respects, but the BG 2.0 is almost as thin, sits lower in the hand, and has the thumb safety that I think is necessary for a defensive gun with such a light trigger pull.
It is just an all-around better gun than the Ruger.
 
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I have both the G42 and the P365-380. I also have the 9mm variants. When my dominant shoulder acts up, I break out the 380s because they don't aggravate the bone spur or the torn bicep. When I got the G42, it was on the used shelf, because as a rental, it just wasn't generating income. That little G42 was the best $200 I spent, since it's the only Glock I own that's won me a performance prize Glock in GSSF matches.

Generally, I pocket carry the G42 and the P365. However, the G42 magazines are now 8+1, since they have a Pearce +1 along with a Magguts. The super nice benefit to the 380 is that I can really place my shots!
 
chief38 said:
I understand you like the +P for the extra velocity however even that does not reliably expand out of a 3" barrel at the marginal extra velocity. IMHO with a .380 short barrel pistol the key is to use FMJ ammo. Since expansion in a 380 is not truly a reality, you might as well get good penetration which is more important anyway.

It's been quite a few years since I have personally chronographed .380 acp ammo so please correct me if things have vastly improved. Please don't quote the info printed on the ammo boxes as they are usually tested in test barrels, not 3" barrels and of course "wishful thinking" at best.
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I carry Black Hills Honeybadger in my 380.
 
I'm in the p365 camp. Very compact and with the manual safety its hard to beat.

If I feel the need for a really small 380 I'll bring along the Seecamp.

Never owned a Karr. Had a few Glocks. Had a lot of J frames and Colts (of varying sizes).
 
chief38 said:
Yes Sir, I am aware. I don't quite get why someone would be in the market for a P365 in .380acp when the 9mm is available for the exact same sized gun. Not to hi-jack the thread, but IMO the .380 is not even in the ballpark of the 9mm cartridge (and yes, I am aware it can still be effective IF shot placement is good enough). The 9mm P365 is very controllable even for most women I have let shoot my pistol. One of the students I taught is exactly 5' 0", around 105-110 pounds and shoots the P365 like her .380 10.5 ounce Ruger LCP Max. She bought the Ruger first and then after letting her try my P365 she went out and purchased one too.
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In most people’s hands a .380 is easier to make rapid, repeat good hits with than with more powerful calibers.
 
Phenix said:
I think my Winchester .380 95 grain FMJ Flat Points will penetrate far enough, and at least potentially do more damage and have a straighter wound channel than a Round Nose FMJ in the same caliber. They typically penetrate over 20 inches in ballistic gel for what that’s worth.
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Ballistic gel or the clear stuff? There's a difference. The clear stuff typically exhibits better penetration and expansion.
 
Phenix said:
The clear stuff that is frequently referred to as ballistic gel.
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The (yellow) FBI-calibrated organic gel requires a 0.177” BB to penetrate 3.5 inches (85 mm ± 5 mm) at 181 m/s and it has a specific formula. But it is organic and temperature can effect performance if youre doing youtube tests.

The clear ballistics gel is synthetic and can sit out but is inconsistent and often shows deeper penetration (and if i remember correctly better expansion) than the calibrated organic gel
 
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