I think that makes you an exemplary officer of the law. Too many drawing when there is no need.
How many of you have actually needed to draw your ccw in public?
- Thread starter ms
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Multiple times as a cop and once as a civilian. I had just gotten out of the Marines and gotten married. We lived in a poorer section as that was all we could afford then. I would jog at night about 7 miles around a local park. One night I had 4 young gentlemen jump out of a car with Bats and tire tools screaming where you running white boy. I had a Rossi 3" .38 as that is all I could afford for my wife. I pulled it and held it to my side. The Young men decided that they no longer cared where I was running and left. I re-holstered and finished my run.
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You clearly have no understanding of the profession.
jscott
Member
No doubt.
jscott
Member
You mean that you policed in the burbs and lived in Detroit? When I was there and Residency ruled, many guys risked their job by sneaking to the burbs. As regarding your worthless partner, many of us have had the same experience. Slugs.
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Yes, we have all worked with "that guy", who miraculously always seems to find himself somewhere else when the action goes down. Yes, I have worked with guys who might as well had their guns JB Welded into their holsters. They were cowards; individuals who wanted to wear the costume, drive the car and get the half-price meal. But when it's time to do law enforcement things, they are somewhere else. If you worked anywhere but Mayberry for three decades and didn't once draw your gun, you are nothing more than a piece of meat in uniform. To protect, and serve, means you must meet the wolf at the door with appropriate action. Failure to do so betrays your oath.
Trust me...you don't have to go looking for trouble. If you are doing your job, it will find you.
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A case study....
I was sub-District commander in Raton, NM, just 110 miles north of our District office in Las Vegas, NM. I had to 'cover' supervisory calls in Las Vegas when both the lt and cpt there were gone.
Dispatch calls me at dark-thirty to tell me two LV NMSP junior patrolman were chasing a vehicle whose occupants had shot at one of them north on I-25. I told her I'd be 10-8 in 5 minutes (that was the rule). She also said Officer Casados requested permission to head south to assist from "...south of Raton"; permission granted.
Got kitted up, jumped in my unit, and headed south. About 10 minutes later dispatch told me the chase was terminated north of Watrous. She also said Ofc Casados was on-scene. I later asked him how he made 75 miles in 15-20 minutes; he admitted he had headed south as soon as he heard the pursuit start (before he had permission) - told I figured that out and appreciated him heading south to help the much younger officers.
At the same time, our officer in Springer, 40 miles closer to action, promptly drove the other direction then checked out for coffee.
You either believe in the job or you're just wasting tax dollars.
I was sub-District commander in Raton, NM, just 110 miles north of our District office in Las Vegas, NM. I had to 'cover' supervisory calls in Las Vegas when both the lt and cpt there were gone.
Dispatch calls me at dark-thirty to tell me two LV NMSP junior patrolman were chasing a vehicle whose occupants had shot at one of them north on I-25. I told her I'd be 10-8 in 5 minutes (that was the rule). She also said Officer Casados requested permission to head south to assist from "...south of Raton"; permission granted.
Got kitted up, jumped in my unit, and headed south. About 10 minutes later dispatch told me the chase was terminated north of Watrous. She also said Ofc Casados was on-scene. I later asked him how he made 75 miles in 15-20 minutes; he admitted he had headed south as soon as he heard the pursuit start (before he had permission) - told I figured that out and appreciated him heading south to help the much younger officers.
At the same time, our officer in Springer, 40 miles closer to action, promptly drove the other direction then checked out for coffee.
You either believe in the job or you're just wasting tax dollars.
Motown_Ron
Member
But did you call the cops to report the incident? A patrol officer would have LOVED to know what he'd been up to. What you didn't know was that after you passed him up later, he was involved in harassing other innocent people and that time, someone called the cops and the responding cop made contact with the person but decided NOT to arrest him. I made all that up to illustrate my point.
Motown_Ron
Member
Yeah, I pretty much agree with you. But then again, I'm old school.
SchemaEnigma
Member
W1arrior
Member
My Google search of where did Google get this information and their estimate is strictly anecdotal meaning unscientific rather than hard facts.
I don’t know if this would be in public but I had to defend myself from a pit bullattack in my yard around 5:00 in the afternoon. Two loose ones came at me and I tried to yell at them to get them out of my yard. When the alpha male came in for a bite I drew my 9mm Shield and one shot of a 147 HST stopped the attack. I was just glad iI had security cameras that caught everything from different angles. I emailed the video to my attorney and then got the ok to file a report.
I was a dog trainer in my younger days mostly wearing bite sleeves and catching bites, so I knew the attack was for real.
I often wonder about if I didn’t have my gun on me that day.
On a silly side note, for some reason that S&W Shield became a special gun to me after that
.
I was a dog trainer in my younger days mostly wearing bite sleeves and catching bites, so I knew the attack was for real.
I often wonder about if I didn’t have my gun on me that day.
On a silly side note, for some reason that S&W Shield became a special gun to me after that
.ks farmer
Member
Drunk came to my door at 2:15 wanted me to send his GF out. I told him he had the wrong house and pulled 36 from mama, backed out of drive into a tree.
InTheBlack
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skipping over 3 pages of ancient history. To me the question is how were you treated by the police when they responded to a "man brandishing a gun" call? These days its hard to just walk away without being caught on camera, or having the person you had to draw on call once they get away. And if you are in a jurisidiction where the liberal DA is on the hunt for a gun crime to prosecute...
IMO every time your gun shows, you need to collect the evidence you might need to avoid prosecution. So what exactly should that encompass? Taking a video of the area around you? A time stamp of some sort? Calling the police yourself to report the assault?
IMO every time your gun shows, you need to collect the evidence you might need to avoid prosecution. So what exactly should that encompass? Taking a video of the area around you? A time stamp of some sort? Calling the police yourself to report the assault?
elm_creek_smith
US Veteran
I seem to remember Mas Ayoob saying if you have to draw your gun to prevent or stop an assault/robbery/whatever, you should call the police and report it because the bad guy might call the police and accuse you of brandishing a gun and threatening to shoot said bad guy. In my situation above, the large, hostile drunk never saw a weapon, he just heard two clicks.
Oh please. I have no doubt that policing is emotionally exhausting and occasionally physically demanding, but it is hardly a black box of arcane wizardry and other secret arts.
There are a lot of great cops out there. Some of them occasionally have to shoot someone. But there are also a lot of subpar cops out there. Those are the ones more likely to shoot someone unnecessarily.
Let's take cops out of the equation. Can we at least agree that ANYONE with a loaded weapon pointed at another person is more likely to shoot them than someone with a holstered weapon?
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Then you actually know nothing about policing.
Sure buddy. And I can't have an opinion on when it is necessary to draw a firearm because I've never written a speeding ticket.
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Not true - you can actually content yourself with your opinion regardless of whether it has any factual basis. So many do.
Misinterpretation seems to be the word of the day, I'm afraid. Namely, the difference between 'drawing' and 'discharging.' It's obvious that one must draw to discharge a gun, the odd P320 story notwithstanding. Another thing is that a lot of people seem to conflate the fact that almost every law enforcement officer has to draw his or her sidearm in the course of their duties for many reasons, usually related to searching. Would any sensible officer search a dwelling whereby a burglary or crime was reported with their gun holstered? I surely think not. Maybe some of the aforementioned slugs, but then again they just might call the premises clear without even bothering to check if they're that worthless.
Another observation, this one related to AI. I think that by now most all of us are aware that AI can be manipulated into giving different answers based on how you word your question. I've done this all that time, it's not hard. Don't fall for it. If you choose to argue something, do so in your own words with your own knowledge and memory if at all possible, otherwise you do so at your peril.
As to the original topic: I've never had to actually draw my gun. I HAVE had to put my hand on my gun once back in 2014, a Ruger LCP in this particular case, when I was driving my late grandfather around at the Lawrenceville, Georgia Home Depot. We had parked in the pickup bay to load something or other and a rather skeevy looking couple in a ratty Chevy pickup parked behind us. For reasons unknown - meth or LSD perhaps - the driver went beserk because he thought we either didn't pull up far enough or something. Kept lurching his truck as close as possible to the back of my grandfather's car. My grandfather, then 93 years old and very frail with a cane, was standing to the side of the right rear door and I was standing just outside the driver's door after parking and exiting the car. Beserko kept beserking and jerking the truck and yelling. I pointed to the side and firmly commanded him to "DRIVE AROUND" but he might as well have heard the wind. Kept raging and raging. I think his GF/wife was getting scared as well. It was at about this point I reached in my back pocket where I had my LCP and decided that if he exited his truck I would draw my gun. Fortunately, about this time my grandfather had very slowly gotten in the car and I did the same while watching wild man rage on and we drove off without further incident. It was shortly afterwards I decided to upgrade my EDC to a S&W M&P40 Compact in a KL Null OWB holster, which served me well for years afterwards.
I spent over 3 years in and around every sort of place you could possibly imagine in metropolitan Atlanta whether on foot, car, motorcycle, subway and yet somehow that was the only run-in I ever had. Sure got a lot of dirty looks though.
Tom
Another observation, this one related to AI. I think that by now most all of us are aware that AI can be manipulated into giving different answers based on how you word your question. I've done this all that time, it's not hard. Don't fall for it. If you choose to argue something, do so in your own words with your own knowledge and memory if at all possible, otherwise you do so at your peril.
As to the original topic: I've never had to actually draw my gun. I HAVE had to put my hand on my gun once back in 2014, a Ruger LCP in this particular case, when I was driving my late grandfather around at the Lawrenceville, Georgia Home Depot. We had parked in the pickup bay to load something or other and a rather skeevy looking couple in a ratty Chevy pickup parked behind us. For reasons unknown - meth or LSD perhaps - the driver went beserk because he thought we either didn't pull up far enough or something. Kept lurching his truck as close as possible to the back of my grandfather's car. My grandfather, then 93 years old and very frail with a cane, was standing to the side of the right rear door and I was standing just outside the driver's door after parking and exiting the car. Beserko kept beserking and jerking the truck and yelling. I pointed to the side and firmly commanded him to "DRIVE AROUND" but he might as well have heard the wind. Kept raging and raging. I think his GF/wife was getting scared as well. It was at about this point I reached in my back pocket where I had my LCP and decided that if he exited his truck I would draw my gun. Fortunately, about this time my grandfather had very slowly gotten in the car and I did the same while watching wild man rage on and we drove off without further incident. It was shortly afterwards I decided to upgrade my EDC to a S&W M&P40 Compact in a KL Null OWB holster, which served me well for years afterwards.
I spent over 3 years in and around every sort of place you could possibly imagine in metropolitan Atlanta whether on foot, car, motorcycle, subway and yet somehow that was the only run-in I ever had. Sure got a lot of dirty looks though.
Tom
TaxPhd
Member
It was a quick and dirty search for easily accessible information on the thread topic. Given the context, a deep dive into researching the topic wasn’t merited.
But it’s cute that you’ve concluded that I have some sort of foolish belief in AI.
TaxPhd
Member
What I posted was an exact copy/paste of the search result. I didn’t delve into the source documents.
Yes. Tuesday morning. Driving back from the range and stopped to get gas.
Went in to pay my cash (I don’t gas up with a CC,too many card skimmers on our area).
The guy in front of me, early twenties maybe 6’2” and all of a hundred pounds turned and walked right into me. Didn’t hesitate. Just walked and I had to move to the side. VERY rude. Now I’m late 70’s and clearly old…
If If I weren’t carrying I would have told him what a jerk he was.
But…you don’t start or unnecessarily continue something if you are armed. So I said nothing…
I mentioned it to an elderly friend who lives in downtown Philly . She said nowadays young people never give her space on the sidewalk. “They just don’t care” was her comment.
As for the thread topic….
Not drawn…hand on the gun .
1. Years ago when driving my wife the visiting nurse on night call. It was in the most violent neighborhood of the county seat at 2:00am. The hospice patient had just died and per state law the hospice nurse was called to pronounce.
Big crowd of local “youths”
Outside.
The smallest guy thought I was an off duty cop and proceeded to break into a car in front of me while dissing the local cops.
I went to the adjoining houses porch which the owner had surrounded with a concrete wall, and just looked at the creep with my Glock 19 hidden but in hand..
2. Last August -on church volunteer work at 56th and Chancellor in West Philly. We were helping unload a car. I looked up and here is this dude coming towards us wearing a zipped up hoodie with the hood up and his hands in the handwarmer pockets! Folks it was 92 degrees.
My right hand went to my G43 immediately . He caught that movement and shifted direction right then.
Not drawn…hand on the gun .
1. Years ago when driving my wife the visiting nurse on night call. It was in the most violent neighborhood of the county seat at 2:00am. The hospice patient had just died and per state law the hospice nurse was called to pronounce.
Big crowd of local “youths”
Outside.
The smallest guy thought I was an off duty cop and proceeded to break into a car in front of me while dissing the local cops.
I went to the adjoining houses porch which the owner had surrounded with a concrete wall, and just looked at the creep with my Glock 19 hidden but in hand..
2. Last August -on church volunteer work at 56th and Chancellor in West Philly. We were helping unload a car. I looked up and here is this dude coming towards us wearing a zipped up hoodie with the hood up and his hands in the handwarmer pockets! Folks it was 92 degrees.
My right hand went to my G43 immediately . He caught that movement and shifted direction right then.
Law-dog
Member
Interesting discussion but not based on facts. I worked 4 law enforcement jobs, military, then local, then federal, then state. Arrested lots of people without backup. Two places were the highest incident areas in the state. Lots of fights in progress and lots of DUIs. Both had a high presence of motorcycle clubs. One was a 1% club.
Then went to law school and became a prosecutor. And got a masters in criminal justice along the way. I have read lots of statistics and created a few.
That said, there is no tracking mechanism for guns drawn, never. I recall drawing and sticking a model 65 into the ear of a very large biker, he reached for a handgun under a jean jacket to shoot my partner. That report would have indicated that I arrested him at gunpoint. When I worked in that city there would have been dozens of reports of guns drawn but none would so indicate, unless shots were fired or it was relevant to the prosecutor.
As a state ranger I worked in the boonies around a large lake, I was about 20 miles from backup daily. When you arrest without backup, and there are multiple felons, you often pull the gun and just let it point at the ground, it is faster if you need it. I once arrested 3 guys, after one of them tried to stab me in the neck with a boot knife. Turns out he was on the national 10 most wanted list.
In one case an illegal tried to evade arrest and when I tried to cuff him, he dragged me into the lake and tried to drown me. It was an easy case to shoot the fool but I did not. My report indicated that I arrested him with gun drawn. Actually. It was pushed inside his ear at one point.
Many times we went on manhunts and in buildings and the brush the gun is usually in hand or a long gun was in hand, just common sense.
Point is there is no reason or reporting of how often a gun is drawn, only when shots are fired as it should be.
I successfully ended a hostage situation once after the perp looked at the front of my Mini 14 for about 20 minutes. That report would have so indicated.
That said, I taught CCW classes for years. There is no reason a citizen should go to high risk areas at night unless it is an emergency. When you do you increase your odds of attack. That statistic has nothing to do with millions of people who live in the, quiet burbs and do not go to risky areas.
Statistics are meaningless in gun carry for the most part. Odds are most people will never be raped or robbed or the victim of attack. So, statistically gun carry is a foolish notion. If a person plays the odds then there is no reason for carrying a gun.
If however, you do go where there is a known risk or just want to carry a spare tire in you car for the rare blowout. It is a matter of choice. A CCW is like a spare tire, you never really need it, until you really need it. Duh? Also like insurance on your car, you never expect an accident. But they do happen. ....
Then went to law school and became a prosecutor. And got a masters in criminal justice along the way. I have read lots of statistics and created a few.
That said, there is no tracking mechanism for guns drawn, never. I recall drawing and sticking a model 65 into the ear of a very large biker, he reached for a handgun under a jean jacket to shoot my partner. That report would have indicated that I arrested him at gunpoint. When I worked in that city there would have been dozens of reports of guns drawn but none would so indicate, unless shots were fired or it was relevant to the prosecutor.
As a state ranger I worked in the boonies around a large lake, I was about 20 miles from backup daily. When you arrest without backup, and there are multiple felons, you often pull the gun and just let it point at the ground, it is faster if you need it. I once arrested 3 guys, after one of them tried to stab me in the neck with a boot knife. Turns out he was on the national 10 most wanted list.
In one case an illegal tried to evade arrest and when I tried to cuff him, he dragged me into the lake and tried to drown me. It was an easy case to shoot the fool but I did not. My report indicated that I arrested him with gun drawn. Actually. It was pushed inside his ear at one point.
Many times we went on manhunts and in buildings and the brush the gun is usually in hand or a long gun was in hand, just common sense.
Point is there is no reason or reporting of how often a gun is drawn, only when shots are fired as it should be.
I successfully ended a hostage situation once after the perp looked at the front of my Mini 14 for about 20 minutes. That report would have so indicated.
That said, I taught CCW classes for years. There is no reason a citizen should go to high risk areas at night unless it is an emergency. When you do you increase your odds of attack. That statistic has nothing to do with millions of people who live in the, quiet burbs and do not go to risky areas.
Statistics are meaningless in gun carry for the most part. Odds are most people will never be raped or robbed or the victim of attack. So, statistically gun carry is a foolish notion. If a person plays the odds then there is no reason for carrying a gun.
If however, you do go where there is a known risk or just want to carry a spare tire in you car for the rare blowout. It is a matter of choice. A CCW is like a spare tire, you never really need it, until you really need it. Duh? Also like insurance on your car, you never expect an accident. But they do happen. ....
SchemaEnigma
Member
I don't doubt that. It was just interesting (to me, at least), that the AI response I got was different.
I'm sure there are many officers that worked in cities where drawing their handgun was never needed. I worked in a city where it could happen multiple times in a single shift and many of the guys had been in multiple shootings. I was involved in 4 on duty and one off duty. I worked a a robbery detail so some of that was expected. There were dozens of car stops where my sidearm was in my hand, down by my leg on the initial approach and this was not uncommon in my city. I guess not EVER having to pull your sidearm in a career is a good thing but hard for me to imagine. Like Dirty Harry said. "A man's got to know his limitations".
There may be a disconnect on how many actually did and how many reported it. There still may be agencies that require "paper" if a sidearm is drawn. Stupid idea.
I think we all had one of those guys. We had one that would have a mandatory car stop every time he was in route to a hot call or as your backup on a hot call. Coward.
Good point! Should have mentioned that midway through my career my job’s procedures changed.
We no longer had to document “routine” display of a gun. It was “Code XX, display only.” (Not really XX; used that to protect procedural stuff.)
Sure did save a lot of writing for just about everyone.
Yep, we had a “house mouse” or two who never got involved in anything.
Must add this. I was criminal investigations commander. Call for a “shots fired” at a prominent location. Everyone was rolling except my boss who I passed as he was going in the opposite direction.
Said his radio was off which is almost as bad as his intentionally avoiding a big situation. Be safe.
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