RDS on revolvers?

We get to a point in life where we either accept we can't shoot as well as we used to or adapt.

Red Dots take decades of the clock.

Shooting is again a skills test and not an eye test.

I don't see that as bad.

It is a different way to shoot though. There are some things to work through. For me it's worth learning how to use the red dot well.

It's either that or consign myself to looking at my guns a lot more than shooting them.

Red Dots are not for me, but I still have very good vision since my Cataract Surgery.
I love the traditional look of a revolver without one but for those who do better with the Dot, who can argue with that. Afterall, the purpose is to hit the target.

moosedog said:

Red Dots are not for me, but I still have very good vision since my Cataract Surgery.
I love the traditional look of a revolver without one but for those who do better with the Dot, who can argue with that. Afterall, the purpose is to hit the target.

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Me either and I've been fiddling with them since the 1980s. I have several handguns with red dots or optics, but they are all half as fast for me than standard Patridge sights at ranges under 15 yards . They aren't necessarily that much more accurate but beyond 15 they might have perhaps a 5% improvement. but the speed penalty could easily be fatal.

Then again, I have passed the Army rifle qual using a stock 1911a1 every time I've tried. There used to be four 300 meter targets in the qual, but they changed it about the time I retired. I never did try it with a red dot sighted pistol, I have done it with an Ampoint equipped M4.

Riposte

Hitting the range later this week to try this out.

When you get old ... the Eye's are the second thing that stops working well ... and they don't make any little Blue Pills to help your vision !
You use a Red Dot or ... stop shooting !
My first was a Millet SP-1 mounted on a Model 64 S&W !
Gary

gwpercle said:

When you get old ... the Eye's are the second thing that stops working well ... and they don't make any little Blue Pills to help your vision !
You use a Red Dot or ... stop shooting !
My first was a Millet SP-1 mounted on a Model 64 S&W !
Gary

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With my eyes, I'd long ago given up on accuracy. I've always shoot both eyes open target focused. Close in, it's not a big deal at even 10 yards provided you're OK with desert plate sized groups. When the fuzzy front sight was near where I wanted, I fired.

The red dot gives me a sharp reference on the target I've never had before and it really helps me tighten things up and lets me hit acceptable groups at 25 and consistently clang metal at 40~50. It's given me a whole new shooting experience and I'm looking forward to working on it.

I like red dots, I am faster and more accurate with them but I shoot both.

In Steel Challenge with the 2 provisional divisions this year there are 16 divisions you can shoot in, 8 with iron sight and 8 with optics. I have shot in all 16.

I have 6 revolvers with red dots, here are the 3 I have pictures of.

Top down:
627 V-Comp for Steel Challenge
617 6” 6 with Ultra dot for Bullseye
This is almost 30 years old and
Ultra Dot was the only thing being
used where I shot.
617 4” 10 shot for Steel Challenge

gwpercle said:

When you get old ... the Eye's are the second thing that stops working well ... and they don't make any little Blue Pills to help your vision !
You use a Red Dot or ... stop shooting !
My first was a Millet SP-1 mounted on a Model 64 S&W !
Gary

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I have had astigmatism since I was a teen - most red dots show up for me as a mishapen blob but some don't (not sure why that is?).

I have not seen a pistol sight in focus for well over 50 years but I can still hit and index card at 25 yards with most of my carry pistols.

I have handguns with red dots, and I have them with scopes (I can see the reticle in most optics which have an adjustable diopter).

I am 75.5 and my glassses perscription has not changed in over 30 years.

This was shot using Winchester Ranger 230 gr. +P at 25 yards - I cannot do any better with a red dot.



I can do slightly better with a 2X Scope but then the ammo is sligthtly more accurate - this was at 50 yards. 200 gr H&G 68 at 1200 fps from that 7" barrel (it only gets 1050 from a 5")





Riposte

Riposte1 said:

I have had astigmatism since I was a teen - most red dots show up for me as a mishapen blob but some don't (not sure why that is?).

I have not seen a pistol sight in focus for well over 50 years but I can still hit and index card at 25 yards with most of my carry pistols.

I have handguns with red dots, and I have them with scopes (I can see the reticle in most optics which have an adjustable diopter).

I am 75.5 and my glassses perscription has not changed in over 30 years.

This was shot using Winchester Ranger 230 gr. +P at 25 yards - I cannot do any better with a red dot.

View attachment 897774

I can do slightly better with a 2X Scope but then the ammo is sligthtly more accurate - this was at 50 yards. 200 gr H&G 68 at 1200 fps from that 7" barrel (it only gets 1050 from a 5")

View attachment 897775

That's some good shooting! I'd be proud of those groups too!

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When it comes to me shooting with irons, I find lighting conditions matter a lot.

If the lighting is just right, this old man (me) can still shoot pretty good at the fifty yard line.

It seems like a stunt though as I cannot count on what the lighting conditions will be.

After putting some effort into it, I am consistently faster and more accurate with a dot. Most people are which is why dot equipped pistols tend to dominate any sport they are allowed in.

I do agree 100% though that revolvers look better with irons. Heck, I still have a soft spot for fixed sight revolvers but I am kidding myself if I think I can consistently shoot them to the level I could when younger.

Riposte1 said:

Riposte

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Oh there is most assuredly an adjustment period to using optics on pistols of any kind. 20 years ago when I retired from L/E service optics were unheard of on revolvers, but they were becoming popular on auto pistols. 20 years ago I didn't have much of a problem with my eyesight, but I did wear glasses to eliminate an astigmatism. Part of the problem for me was needing different lenses for different barrel lengths and it just became a pain in the neck to accommodate many different firearms.

I jerry-rigged an old Aimpoint H-1 on a Glock 17 many years ago and I really liked the results, but the front lens on the optic was taking a beating from ejected cases. I took the optic off that pistol hoping to come up with some other idea and Trijicon came out with their RMR optic which worked very well for me. I have since gravitated to SRO's as I like the big window. I use Holoson enclosed optics on my EDC pistols and they work quite well also, but it never dawned on me to put an optic on a revolver until very recently.

Installing optics on two of my S&W revolvers has brought me back into shooting revolvers and having a ball doing so. I really don't care how strange or weird something looks as I am a more function over form person. I had even thought of using my SRO equipped Model 14-3 for my HR-218 qual last week, but I don't have a decent holster for it, so I stayed with a SRO equipped semi-auto. Maybe next year I will run the Model 14.

Time has shown me to never turn your nose up at what seems like a bad idea. I will be the first one to jump up and say red dots don't look good on a revolver. Most don't look good on a revolver, but that in no way means they don't work well on a revolver. There is a learning curve to using an optic on any firearm, but on a handgun it takes some extra time to get familiar with an optic. IMHO the hardest part of getting used to an optic on a handgun is bringing the optic up to your eye so you can almost instantly locate the DOT. This requires muscle memory which means multiple repetitions of bringing the DOT to your eye. When I say multiple attempts I mean multiple attempts! Immediately locating of the DOT takes some time and work, but when you develop that skill you will have reached optic sight Nirvana! If you notice I said bring the optic UP to your eye, not down to your eye. Keep your head UP so you have full view of the optic window. If you are crouching pulling your head into your shoulders your are doing it wrong.

The other big mistake is to use the DOT as an aiming point like a scope reticle. I try my best to look at the target and let the DOT invade my sight picture to my point of aim and pull the trigger. Doing so is much faster than trying to aim with the DOT.

Any who, if you have never used an optic/red dot on a revolver give it a try. You might just surprise yourself and discover the joy of using one. If you are seriously thinking of using an optic on your revolver head to the store and honestly look at the different optic models that are being sold. Good ones aren't cheap. Image quality is everything in using an optic. I have yet to see a hundred dollar optic that looks good to my eye. Cheap ones have dots that splay or look like an oval or some other weird shape. It would no doubt be a good idea to get an eye exam before you buy an optical sight, to avoid buying one that sucks after you get new glasses.

Sorry for the rant, but I needed to vent a bit on this subject.

Rick H.

FZ1Tom said:

... but what can a red dot do that a LPVO can’t?

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Be small and unobtrusive. Even a "small" LPVO still dominates the top of a handgun. To me, unless it's a bolt action handgun with a 12" - 14" barrel like a Remington XP100, putting a scope on a handgun largely negates the advantages of a handgun over a rifle. To my way of thinking, even some red dots much larger than an RMR make handguns cumbersome.

I never warmed to the idea of red dots on defensive carry guns, mostly because I pocket carry micro compacts. For hunting or range fun, it's a different story. I handgun hunt a little too, and for that I mostly use iron sighted revolvers, as part of the fun and challenge for me is to be in close, much the same appeal as bowhunting. If I shoot at anything much beyond 50 yards, I'm using a rifle.

malph said:

When it comes to me shooting with irons, I find lighting conditions matter a lot.

If the lighting is just right, this old man (me) can still shoot pretty good at the fifty yard line.

It seems like a stunt though as I cannot count on what the lighting conditions will be.

After putting some effort into it, I am consistently faster and more accurate with a dot. Most people are which is why dot equipped pistols tend to dominate any sport they are allowed in.

I do agree 100% though that revolvers look better with irons. Heck, I still have a soft spot for fixed sight revolvers but I am kidding myself if I think I can consistently shoot them to the level I could when younger.

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I can, and have, hit targets on an overcast night with a pistol out to 25 yards - no flashlight (other than the one the instrucor had who only swept the area with it for 1 second to ID the target, while my gun was still in the holster) - we didn't have nite sights back then, but I seldom install them on pistols anyway these days and I only have one pistol with a flashlight - it is for raccoons at night,

Of course it takes a little serious training, but when I was instructing I had the students do the same thing.

One caveat - one has to be able to identify the target but sometimes it "self identifies"

Riposte

Pretty....



Pretty ugly....but I can shoot it more accurately, 1 3/8" group at 25 yds offhand.



I used my M617 in rimfire handgun for a few years. Pigs at 50 yds were fairly easy to hit consistently. I could win matches occasionally with this setup and was the only one shooting a revolver. Turkeys and rams were harder because of the holdover but I could get 4 or 5 often enough.
For me, they are more accurate than iron sights.

I mainly run iron sights on my revolvers but recently added a GDS on my 617-6 for plinking. I can see green better than the red. So far I like it.

I think I'll put a red dot on my K-38 so I can shrink the group..well maybe not

5 shots at 25 yards (1100 fps load).



Riposte

For defensive use I will stay with the gun only no red dot. I am slow finding the red dot and slow is not good for defense. I do own a Red/Green dot however you want to describe it and have it on my 10MM in case I wish to hunt deer with a pistol. But for defense use Nadda. Up close and personal I seldom see my sights as I focus on the target not on the sights. As I have always said, I am a combat shooter not a bullseye shooter. At 77 its hard to teach me many new tricks and I will stay with what works for me.