Typical cost to properly cut a 4” down to a 3”?

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Basher42

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So I would love to have a 3” K-frame, but it seems most of them are crazy expensive these days. I could go for one of the newer Model 19 Carry Comps for ~$800-1000 depending on used/new etc., but I’d rather stainless as I sweat a lot and carry IWB/AIWB. Again though, 3” stainless models tend to go for a premium, so my thought is be patient and buy a used 4” for cheap and have it cut. For those who’ve had it done, how much did it run you?

Essentially I’m trying to debate between having a beater 64/65/66/67 cut and refinished or settling for something like an LCRx 3” or maybe an SP101 model. I also have a 4.2” SP101 in .327Mag (because Smith no longer makes a stainless 3” .327…) that I’m considering having cut down as well since the Lipseye 3” models seem rare as hen’s teeth and also expensive.

Sure wish Smith would give 3” models (and the .327Mag) some more love… :(
 
Probably depends on what you consider to be "properly".

The issue arises in that when you cut a barrel down on a 4" Smith & Wesson it will change the location of any markings on the barrel. You end up with the markings being off centered. Not to mention having to replace the front sight with something that has to be dove-tailed in.

You cannot really cut from the thread end because it has to be screwed back into the frame.

I had a couple of 4" Model 64s cut down to 3 inch barrels, along with some other work, and they each cost around $400- $500 to do so. Couple that with shipping and wait time and I would suggest your best bet would be to wait and look for an original un-cut version or one that has already been worked on. I knew when I had the work done on them I would never get back the money invested but truly liked what I had done, so there is that.

I had the barrels flat sided to eliminate the issue with the barrel markings. Had one of the hammers bobbed (one was already done) and had some tune up work done on the actions as well as a bead blast finish and fiber optic sights that were purchased by me separately but installed by the gunsmith. Both of the originals were purchased in the $200 range so at least my starting point wasn't real bad.

These were done 12 to 14 years ago so the cost is probably a tad bit more today.
20200503_150534.webp20200503_150517.webp
 
Considering that most 4" K-frames were square butt and factory K-frames with 3" or shorter barrels were round butt, shortening the barrel solves only 1/2 of the compact K-frame equation. Given the cost of having a good gunsmith shorten or swap a barrel, then round butt the frame, assuming that round-butting does not encroach upon or alter the serial number on the butt, you would be better off buying one of the new production Model 66 Combat Magnums. These have a 2 3/4" barrel, round butt, but also have the redesigned barrel system that eliminates the flat spot on the barrel shank at the forcing cone and the forward cylinder lock is moved to the yoke.
 
It’s going to be pretty expensive.

I have a small machine shop setup in my shop behind the house that I tinker in and work on gun projects for myself. I did it as an occupation for about ten years before getting a different job that would pay the bills. Problem being that to make a living as a gunsmith in this day and age, especially as a one man band, the hourly rate has to be high. It’s hard to charge a guy $400 to work on a $500 pistol but that’s how it pencils out if you’re going to stay out of the red. Many guns aren’t worth much and people rightly don’t want to pay more than they’re worth to fix or modify them in many cases.

As a recent example. A friend had a SAA clone, probably a $500 gun new I’m guessing, the front sight blade popped out of it’s mortise due to a poor solder joint. He wasn’t the original owner, didn’t want to wait around forever to ship it back to the manufacturer, and it had always shot a little to one side anyway. So he sourced a nifty dovetailed front that’s windage adjustable and has interchangeable blades, I think TGW charged him about $75 for it. We had to source a dovetail cutter since I didn’t have one of the proper size, they’ve gotten pretty pricey lately $125 and that wasn’t buying the one TGW recommended but a less expensive one of the same dimension.

With disassembly of the gun, setup and indicating in the mill, final fitting by hand to get the sight to fit perfect, reassembly and test targeting, there was probably 3 hours of labor involved. Maybe not quite 3 hours but you can bet the average shop is going to charge that or maybe more if they have an hourly minimum.

I didn’t charge him a nickel because we’re old friends and he let me keep the dovetail cutter. But if I were to hang out my shingle again there’s no chance my hourly rate is less than $50 per. So another $150 in theoretical labor. Now we’re up to $350 for a pretty simple job on a cheap import revolver. Properly cutting, crowning, and reinstalling a front sight on an S&W revolver is a much more labor intensive job.

I’d keep shopping for a nice 3”. If you absolutely cannot locate one a barrel swap would probably be a better idea if you can round one up on eBay or somewhere
 
I was recently quoted (from an extremely well respected Gunsmith) $ 600 - $ 850 to have a Model 64-5 4" cut to 3" the front sight blade replaced, a correct crown, the hammer bobbed, the action cleaned up & a general tuneup. Estimated lead time for completion 2 - 3 months. I did not request a quote for converting to RB from SB. My financially/health has taken a downturn so this wouldn't happen but I figured I would share what I was quoted.

rick
 
Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I kind of suspected as much, but wanted to be sure.

@326MOD10 yours is actually what I was planning to do to mine. :) I’d seen them elsewhere on the forums and think those came out VERY nicely. Removing the markings w/ flats wouldn’t bother me a bit if I was already using a beat up specimen, and it looks sharp!

But as others have noted, I’d be doubling the cost of the gun. If I was really happy with it and kept it as long as I imagine I would, the cost would be sunk and I’d have a custom revolver made to my specs. I’m not concerned with collector or resale value on a beat up model, but if it really would cost $500+ then I agree that saving up for a newer model makes the most sense.

As for a simple swap, I’m 100% OK with that, but haven’t seen any available yet. I’ll admit I didn’t think to check eBay given their rather anti-2A stance, but parts should be OK to buy on there still so I’ll take a look.

@jumbeaux I appreciate you sharing your recent quote, that’s super helpful info! Sorry to hear of your declining health, hopefully you can get things stabilized and feel better soon.
 
@The Kid and @jumbeaux described the current situation very well. I've heard it explained this way: What do a gunsmith and a medium pizza have in common? Neither one can feed a family of four.

Specialized gunsmithing on only pre-96 (firing pin on hammer) Smith & Wesson revolvers and quality 1911's is going to be my retirement hobby and source of *some* income. I'm arranging my life so that I don't have to depend on the 'smithing for income...it will be all extra fun money. 678 more working days at the regular job until there's a little puff of dust where I used to be. :cool:

My base shop rate is $100 per hour simply so that I can have one. From what I've seen, @jumbeaux's quote is pretty typical for good work. Customers who will pay that are out there and the number of good revolver smiths goes down every day, so there is a market - it's just a limited one.

The way I've been learning the trade is *not* to go out and solicit work from other people. I have an FFL and have been buying guns that need attention...things that I can pick up relatively cheaply. I buy the gun, put it into the business FFL inventory, do the gunsmithing work to bring it back, then sell the gun as one that has already had the work you described done to it. Because I'm not depending on the 'smithing to support my family, I can take as long as I need to get the work done. I'm being "paid" in experience and practice instead of dollars.

It's a mental thing....as you experienced, it's kind of a big jump to spend $400 on a gun and then put another $500-$600 into it. But for someone who is interested in that kind of thing, finding one that is already done (short barrel, restored finish, trigger job, upgraded stocks, etc) in the $800-$900 range seems like a deal.

If you keep an eye on the Smithing forum, I have a pair of 64-5's that I'm going to convert from 4" to 3" barrels in the next few weeks. The description of the work required will be in the "Pre-Symposium Extravaganza" thread. It'll give you a good idea of what exactly is involved to do it the "easy" way by swapping on original 3" barrels instead of cutting existing ones. Cutting, recrowning, and attaching a new front sight will be much more work than the way I'm going to do it. You can buy that beater 64/65/66/67 and do most (if not all) of the work yourself for quite a bit less money - and you'll have some neat tools left over when you're done.

I need to check the inventory at the shop to get an accurate number, but I'm hoping to have 7 or 8 K-frames with 3" barrels on my trade table at the Symposium in Springfield.
 
Using the timestamps on the pictures as a pseudo-stopwatch, it takes me just over 3 hours to do a 4" --> 3" conversion with a mild refinish and a trigger job.

At 3:14pm the 64-5 looked like this:
IMG_1844.webp

And at 6:29pm it looked like this:

IMG_1886.webp

I'll have the write-up posted in the smithing forum after dinner...post #14 in the Symposium Smithing Extravaganza thread is where it starts.
 
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Basher42 said:
So I would love to have a 3” K-frame, but it seems most of them are crazy expensive these days. I could go for one of the newer Model 19 Carry Comps for ~$800-1000 depending on used/new etc., but I’d rather stainless as I sweat a lot and carry IWB/AIWB. Again though, 3” stainless models tend to go for a premium, so my thought is be patient and buy a used 4” for cheap and have it cut. For those who’ve had it done, how much did it run you?

Essentially I’m trying to debate between having a beater 64/65/66/67 cut and refinished or settling for something like an LCRx 3” or maybe an SP101 model. I also have a 4.2” SP101 in .327Mag (because Smith no longer makes a stainless 3” .327…) that I’m considering having cut down as well since the Lipseye 3” models seem rare as hen’s teeth and also expensive.

Sure wish Smith would give 3” models (and the .327Mag) some more love… :(
Click to expand...
Do NOT do it. Why ruin a 4"? It is the perfect barrel length, esp for ccw. Since the barrel goes down your pants it does NOT make it any easier to carry and you give up a LOT of ballistic performance to save only 1.5 ounces in weight.

100 to 150 fps loss in velocity for most full power 357 Magnum loads going from 4" to 3" in my velocity testing experience for NO noticable improvement in carryability. You also gain a LOT of muzzle blast, flash, and noise. Not to mention a shorter sight radius and increased muzzle flip & recoil.

***If you are going to carry a magnum, CARRY A MAGNUM!***

Get the full magnum power with the goldilocks 4" barrel length. If the extra 1.5 ounces in weight between a 4" and a 3" barrel is too much for you, then don't carry a magnum!
 
Welcome to the forum Blain. The barrel length vs velocity discussion is always a fun one, but in this context needs to be balanced against “Will my shirt cover it?” and “Will I be able to sit in my truck?”

I think you’ll find that most of us here embrace the power of “AND” by having a variety of barrel lengths available to cover the task at hand. My personal collection varies from itty-bitty I frame .32’s up through a monster 10” barreled .44 mag for long range silhouette shooting. The 3” K frames feel good….just like a 5” N frame feels good. There’s room for all of them.

And if those conversions bother you, then you’ll love what I did to a 6” model 14-3 recently. :cool:
 
Shirt covering a revolver comes down to the grip size and shape. Barrel length doesn't effect that. Also, it is extremely unlikely that a 1" barrel length difference will keep someone from sitting.

The carriability difference between a 3" and 4" really is negligable. After doing much velocity testing, I really lost interest in having a magnum with a less than 4" barrel. You give up most of what makes a magnum a magnum and gain very little in comparison (mostly a tiny bit of weight) with lots of drawbacks (ballistics performance, blast, noise, flash, sight radius, recoil).

Shorter barrels are great for 38 special though, esp pocket j frames!
 
Blain said:
Do NOT do it. Why ruin a 4"? It is the perfect barrel length, esp for ccw. Since the barrel goes down your pants it does NOT make it any easier to carry and you give up a LOT of ballistic performance to save only 1.5 ounces in weight.

100 to 150 fps loss in velocity for most full power 357 Magnum loads going from 4" to 3" in my velocity testing experience for NO noticable improvement in carryability. You also gain a LOT of muzzle blast, flash, and noise. Not to mention a shorter sight radius and increased muzzle flip & recoil.

***If you are going to carry a magnum, CARRY A MAGNUM!***

Get the full magnum power with the goldilocks 4" barrel length. If the extra 1.5 ounces in weight between a 4" and a 3" barrel is too much for you, then don't carry a magnum!
Click to expand...

IMG_2420.webp

I’ll make you a deal, Blain. You pay for my revolvers, and then you can tell me what to do with ‘em! :LOL:

For real though, I can appreciate where you’re coming from, but like @Shotguncoach says, there’s room in my safe for all kinds of revolvers to suit my fancy! :) And I agree that a 1” barrel difference may not prevent me from sitting down, but that 1” CAN make the difference between all-day comfort and “get this friggin’ thing off of me now” discomfort!

Anyway, I’m primarily interested in 3” .38SPL models as you mention, and agree that I prefer a 4”+ magnum. But hey, if I can find a good deal on a beater .357, I’m not opposed to using a 3” barrel as part of my rehab plans for it. I may mostly shoot .38s through it anyway, but it’s nice to have options. ;)
 
Shotguncoach said:
Using the timestamps on the pictures as a pseudo-stopwatch, it takes me just over 3 hours to do a 4" --> 3" conversion with a mild refinish and a trigger job.

At 3:14pm the 64-5 looked like this:
View attachment 899629

And at 6:29pm it looked like this:

View attachment 899630

I'll have the write-up posted in the smithing forum after dinner...post #14 in the Symposium Smithing Extravaganza thread is where it starts.
Click to expand...

Thanks for all your input, I’ll definitely have to go check that other thread out. Your work looks fantastic by the way! If you ever want to offload any of ‘em… ;)
 
Decades ago I had a 681, 4" fixed sights. Being bored one weekend I turned from a square butt into a round butt, actually came out pretty well.
A few months later I was bored again a decided to make it a 3" barrel.So with a hacksaw and Dremel tool I cut it down. What a mess I made!
I went crying to a friend that was very handy with metal working tools, he cleaned up the front of the gun,crowned the muzzle and drilled and tapped the barrel for a shotgun bead.
It shot dead on at 25 yards with 158 grain ammo!
The 3" barrel said "mith and Wesson" on one side and "357 Magnu" on the other side.
Sorry, no pictures of the revolver.
Another gun I wished I had kept.
 
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This thread is going lots of places....we started with what does it cost to make a 3" K frame, then went to *how* to make a 3" K frame, then to discussing the merits of 3" vs 4" barrels for carry. I'll make sure to include a couple of short barreled K frame magnums in my answer to at least keep us somewhat on a consistent topic....:unsure:

Based on a couple of comments such as "...the barrel goes down your pants..." and barrel length doesn't affect whether or not a shirt will cover a gun, I'm going to assume that Mr. Blain carries IWB and therefore is blessed with a body shape that is skinny and young, his pants stay up, he doesn't worry about throwing out his back when he ties his shoes, he doesn't buy his suspenders from the 'All Gut, No Butt' guy on Etsy (that's real, by the way....I have some), and he doesn't live where the weather forecast looks like this:

Weather.webp

For folks like me who are old and fat, have bad backs and *need* the side bolsters and lumbar support in our trucks, can't keep our pants up because we have no butt and our beer gut gets in the way, and sweat a lot, OWB carry with a loose cover garment is the way to go. In that case, the extra inch *does* matter greatly....as does the design of the holster.

Here are the guns that I actually do carry (I had to unload all of them for the pictures), arranged on a pair of pants to show where the gun sits:

pants.webp

From left to right we have a 4" Security Six in a Bianchi 5B, a 4" 19-2 in a Bianchi 5BHL, a 2 3/4" 19-2 in a Kramer scabbard, a 3" 13-3 in a Desantis scabbard, a 4" Kimber CDP in a Bulman scabbard, a 5" Kimber in an Alessi DOJ, and a 5" Kimber in an Alessi CQCS.

Note that the two 4" guns have to be either significantly higher or lower than the others. You can have either the muzzle *or* the butt in the same place as the others, but you can't have both. The compact 1911 and the pair of *short barreled* magnums are the easiest to conceal when worn OWB, followed by the full size 1911's, and the 4" magnums are dead last for concealability.

If you want to open carry as we frequently do out west, the 4" magnum is excellent....until you have to sit down, and then that extra length has to go somewhere: either into your ribs or into the seat.

Out of all those choices, the 3" magnum and the 4" 1911 offer *both* the lowest butt and highest muzzle. Those two are the guns I carry most frequently, specifically for that reason.


And yes....I really did have to unload all of them:
YesTheyWere.webp
 
326MOD10 said:
Probably depends on what you consider to be "properly".

The issue arises in that when you cut a barrel down on a 4" Smith & Wesson it will change the location of any markings on the barrel. You end up with the markings being off centered. Not to mention having to replace the front sight with something that has to be dove-tailed in.

You cannot really cut from the thread end because it has to be screwed back into the frame.

I had a couple of 4" Model 64s cut down to 3 inch barrels, along with some other work, and they each cost around $400- $500 to do so. Couple that with shipping and wait time and I would suggest your best bet would be to wait and look for an original un-cut version or one that has already been worked on. I knew when I had the work done on them I would never get back the money invested but truly liked what I had done, so there is that.

I had the barrels flat sided to eliminate the issue with the barrel markings. Had one of the hammers bobbed (one was already done) and had some tune up work done on the actions as well as a bead blast finish and fiber optic sights that were purchased by me separately but installed by the gunsmith. Both of the originals were purchased in the $200 range so at least my starting point wasn't real bad.

These were done 12 to 14 years ago so the cost is probably a tad bit more today.
View attachment 899009View attachment 899010
Click to expand...

Those are pretty cool. Did you do it recently? Can I ask who did the work? I have a 8 3/8” 29-3 that I’m wanting to do something with. 4” barrels are hard to find used. Who knew
 
jumbeaux said:
I was recently quoted (from an extremely well respected Gunsmith) $ 600 - $ 850 to have a Model 64-5 4" cut to 3" the front sight blade replaced, a correct crown, the hammer bobbed, the action cleaned up & a general tuneup. Estimated lead time for completion 2 - 3 months. I did not request a quote for converting to RB from SB. My financially/health has taken a downturn so this wouldn't happen but I figured I would share what I was quoted.

rick
Click to expand...
Shotguncoach said:
Using the timestamps on the pictures as a pseudo-stopwatch, it takes me just over 3 hours to do a 4" --> 3" conversion with a mild refinish and a trigger job.

At 3:14pm the 64-5 looked like this:
View attachment 899629

And at 6:29pm it looked like this:

View attachment 899630

I'll have the write-up posted in the smithing forum after dinner...post #14 in the Symposium Smithing Extravaganza thread is where it starts.
Click to expand...
Outstanding !!!!! Takes me 3 hrs to clean one.
 
Bald1 said:
Those are pretty cool. Did you do it recently? Can I ask who did the work? I have a 8 3/8” 29-3 that I’m wanting to do something with. 4” barrels are hard to find used. Who knew
Click to expand...

It has been at least 14 years or so.

Lewis Throne out of Colorado.

He was the Gunsmith at the NRA site in NM or Colorado and decided to set up shop as Throne Arms. Not sure if he is still in business.
 
You know after thinking about this conversion and all of the discussions about 4" to 3" I began to wonder if this might just be another fad albeit a pretty long lasting one. I recall when many nice 4" Model 10s had barrels swapped out for 2" back in the day. Seemed that many novice Pistolsmith had the 2" barrels & all the parts required at a reasonable price. Now I am old & the likelihood that I am going to be in a quick draw gun fight is pretty minimal. Does the 3" really carry or draw that much easier than a 4" ? I have a 3" Model 10, a 2" 64 & a 4" 64. IHMO they don't carry or handle that differently. Just the musing of an old man. What do y'all think ?

rick
 
jumbeaux said:
You know after thinking about this conversion and all of the discussions about 4" to 3" I began to wonder if this might just be another fad albeit a pretty long lasting one. I recall when many nice 4" Model 10s had barrels swapped out for 2" back in the day. Seemed that many novice Pistolsmith had the 2" barrels & all the parts required at a reasonable price. Now I am old & the likelihood that I am going to be in a quick draw gun fight is pretty minimal. Does the 3" really carry or draw that much easier than a 4" ? I have a 3" Model 10, a 2" 64 & a 4" 64. IHMO they don't carry or handle that differently. Just the musing of an old man. What do y'all think ?

rick
Click to expand...
Exactly my point. It's all psycological! By any measurable metric (weight, length), there is a negligable positive difference at best for 3". Like I said, barrel goes down your side and 1" isn't going to be the difference between being able to sit or not.

On the other hand, aside for being a hair handier to carry (more of a pyscological impact) there are serious major measurable performance downsides to go from 4" to 3" (already mentioned).

But people will continue to do what they like and rationalize it to themselves.
 
Thankfully, nobody’s constrained by either popular opinion or verified test results. Yes, a 4” barrel will produce more velocity than a 3” barrel. But if the 3” and your chosen load still meet FBI penetration standards, are accurate, and precise, then it doesn’t matter. I’d wager there are a LOT of dead bad guys who got put down by 3” barrels.

Consider this. The so-called 4” barrel on a Glock 19 is actually closer to a 3” barrel as the chamber area absorbs nearly 1” of the 4” total. Your 3” revolver barrel is effectively the same length of usable barrel since the cylinder is the chamber. Do we want to take bets on how many people have died at the hands of one of the most carried guns in modern history, which, for all intents and purposes, has a 3” long barrel shooting 9x19?

Carry what you like, gentlemen. I have plenty of 4” barreled guns. I now want a 3” or two to go with them for times when that one inch difference is measurable or simply because I choose to. :) This thread is not about the virtues of a 4” over a 3”, so please go start a separate thread if you’d like to sully the good and capable name of the Goldilocks 3” barrel revolver lol!
 
I know it would equally cost a chunk of change, but what about acquiring an aftermarket barrel cut to 3 inches with a dive tail for a front sight? Add in barrel contouring to lighten it up.
 
walkin' trails said:
I know it would equally cost a chunk of change, but what about acquiring an aftermarket barrel cut to 3 inches with a dive tail for a front sight? Add in barrel contouring to lighten it up.
Click to expand...

That’s another good option to explore that I hadn’t considered, thank you! :)
 
Basher42 said:
So I would love to have a 3” K-frame, but it seems most of them are crazy expensive these days.
Click to expand...

Be patient in your search, but also be persistent ... I lucked out earlier this month & won a Model 65-3 3" revolver, at a local NC firearms auction, with a winning bid of just $450.00 (buyer's premium, tax & transfer fee brought the OTD total to $577.43)

Gun is an honest 98% piece, that came complete with the original matching box and S&W paperwork. The Pachmayr Gripper grip was the factory OEM supplied grip on this gun, as per the end label on the box. Deals can be had, even in today's marketplace, but sometime you have to hunt for them...

1785290751013.webp
 
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