Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Ammunition-Gunsmithing > Reloading

Reloading All Reloading Topics Go Here


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 11-02-2009, 02:19 PM
Gun 4 Fun Gun 4 Fun is offline
SWCA Member
Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles?  
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 5,951
Likes: 1,061
Liked 775 Times in 375 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by canoe on the yukon View Post
I drool over a good double in 577 Nitro Express but it will never be.Way too much for my pocketbook.Care to share the load data you have for the Gibbs?A single in 8 bore would be nice.

I know right where the article is, and I'll dig it out later on today.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 11-02-2009, 03:41 PM
Leonard's Avatar
Leonard Leonard is offline
Member
Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles?  
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 923
Likes: 407
Liked 680 Times in 250 Posts
Default

Don

I am not up to date on what the 458 will do with newer powders. If you can safely get a 500 grain bullet up to about 2150- 2200 fps it would perform well on the largest game animals.

If I were looking for a 458 caliber I would probably go for one based on a full length 375 case as pressure will probably be lower under some African hunting conditions this could be a factor.

It has been my experience if you want to be in control of a situation when things go bad you want something that will penetrate fully and drill as straight of a hole as possible. Bullet construction and design is also critical and experience has shown that a blunt nose will drill straighter hole than a round nose that can more easily be be steered off course.

Len
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 11-02-2009, 05:21 PM
DonD DonD is offline
Member
Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles?  
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Central TX
Posts: 2,080
Likes: 438
Liked 896 Times in 451 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun 4 Fun View Post
Don,
read through this. It's quite eye opening as far as penetration goes.

Linebaugh Seminar Penetration Tests
No surprises, the .500 Linebaugh (which cannot equal the .500 S&W velocity wise) penetrated 57" of paper, an inch more than the .600 NE. The big revolvers can do a lot of damage.

There is an aspect of big revolver penetration that I have never heard an adequate explantion of. Frequently, big heavy slugs will penetrate as much or more at lower velocities even though when hard enough Brinnel wise, the same slugs at higher velocities don't deform much and penetrate less. Strange. Don
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 11-02-2009, 05:24 PM
DonD DonD is offline
Member
Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles?  
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Central TX
Posts: 2,080
Likes: 438
Liked 896 Times in 451 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard View Post
If I were looking for a 458 caliber I would probably go for one based on a full length 375 case as pressure will probably be lower under some African hunting conditions this could be a factor.

Len
Don't doubt that this might be a prudent outlook. Don
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 11-02-2009, 05:56 PM
Gun 4 Fun Gun 4 Fun is offline
SWCA Member
Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles?  
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 5,951
Likes: 1,061
Liked 775 Times in 375 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonD View Post
No surprises, the .500 Linebaugh (which cannot equal the .500 S&W velocity wise) penetrated 57" of paper, an inch more than the .600 NE. The big revolvers can do a lot of damage.

There is an aspect of big revolver penetration that I have never heard an adequate explantion of. Frequently, big heavy slugs will penetrate as much or more at lower velocities even though when hard enough Brinnel wise, the same slugs at higher velocities don't deform much and penetrate less. Strange. Don
Don, I am no ballistician, but I have played around enough over the years to pick up on a few things. I believe that the phenomena you are talking about has something to do with the fact that once a bullet reaches certain speeds, it simply can't push whatever medium it is going through aside quik enough to acheive maximum penetration, before running out of steam.


I posted the above link because in one of your ealier posts you had remarked about a .500 S&W penetrating on buff, but thought the .458 could do as well. It doesn't always work out that way.

The .500 Linebaugh may have just the right balance of bullet weight and velocity to reach maximum penetration in .50 cal.

If you read the whole thing, you'll see that with it's best load, the .475 Linebaugh outpenetrated the .500 Linebaugh even, and by a noticable amount. There's a happy medium in there somewhere. It's too bad we can't all shoot enough ammo, at enough real game, enough times, to be more authoratative in our recomendations to those who ask for advice.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 11-02-2009, 06:04 PM
Gun 4 Fun Gun 4 Fun is offline
SWCA Member
Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles?  
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 5,951
Likes: 1,061
Liked 775 Times in 375 Posts
Default

canoe-
Here is what is listed in the article. I was off on the energy listed in this article as being 10,000 ft lbs. I haven't read it for quite a while and was going off memory. (not a good idea apparently) The 10,000 ft lb figure came from an article by Ross Seyfried on the 585 Nyati that he designed, and wrote up in the G&A, December 1991 issue.

600 grian Barnes soft nose
152 grains of IMR 4831
instrumental velocity=2578 fps.
ft lbs of energy=7500

700 grain Barnes soft nose
132 grains of IMR 4831
instrumental velocity=2260 fps
ft lbs of energy=8400

The above loads are listed on page 100 of the February issue, 1989 Guns and Ammo. The standard factory loading for the Gibbs was a 525 grain bullet at 2300 fps.

Last edited by Gun 4 Fun; 11-02-2009 at 06:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 11-02-2009, 09:55 PM
DonD DonD is offline
Member
Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles?  
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Central TX
Posts: 2,080
Likes: 438
Liked 896 Times in 451 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gun 4 Fun View Post
Don, I am no ballistician, but I have played around enough over the years to pick up on a few things. I believe that the phenomena you are talking about has something to do with the fact that once a bullet reaches certain speeds, it simply can't push whatever medium it is going through aside quik enough to acheive maximum penetration, before running out of steam.
I suspect that is a good explanation.

Regardless of the explanation, one thing is certain, the big revolvers are impressive performers. Don
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 11-02-2009, 09:57 PM
canoe on the yukon canoe on the yukon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 466
Likes: 0
Liked 36 Times in 10 Posts
Default

Gentlemen,

Being a forum that leans very strongly towards handgun use and also where there is a strong affection for 45/70 class rifles,it seems almost inevitable that this would happen.

There is no doubt that Garrett and Linebaugh have a big following and any criticism of them is likely to be received very poorly.I personally have a big issue with their testing methods as well as their agenda.The last thing I want is for this to evolve into a debate/argument over that and so will comment no more about it.

This is not meant to anger anyone.I would simply like to ask that the issue of heavy rifles remain a discussion about heavy rifles.Big handguns are not without merit but should be discussed seperately.I have no control over anything anyone posts but simply ask that you do this out of courtesy to me.Thank you.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 11-02-2009, 10:34 PM
Gun 4 Fun Gun 4 Fun is offline
SWCA Member
Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles?  
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 5,951
Likes: 1,061
Liked 775 Times in 375 Posts
Default

canoe-

Maybe you missed my point with the link. Linebaugh tests a lot of heavy rifles along with the handguns, and they are shown in those tests. He himself, never claimed them to be scientific. Just an interesting comparison between many different rounds, when fired at the exact same medium.

The fact that men I respect particpated in the test goes a long way with me. John Taffin is first to mind.

The tests themselves show what one can expect, at least to some degree, from the heavy rifle. The fact that a similar caliber handgun firing a similar weight bullet, can penetrate as well or better than many heavy rifles, paralells what the .458 can, or might do, when compared to other large bore rifles, when caliber, bullet weight and design etc., are all taken into consideration.

I have no desire to redirect the conversation of this thread, so I will comment no further in it.

I apologize if you feel we may have caused any thread drift.

Last edited by Gun 4 Fun; 11-02-2009 at 10:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 03-04-2021, 03:25 AM
460Guy 460Guy is offline
Member
Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles?  
Join Date: Feb 2021
Posts: 1
Likes: 3
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

I reload .416 Rigby, .458 Lott and just started loading .460 S&W Mag. Big bores should come with a warning about being very addictive.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #61  
Old 03-04-2021, 06:53 AM
Ruger 1,3 Ruger 1,3 is offline
Member
Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles?  
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,103
Likes: 341
Liked 969 Times in 534 Posts
Default

I handload for a Ruger #1 in 600 Nitro Express.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #62  
Old 03-04-2021, 11:22 AM
505Gibbs's Avatar
505Gibbs 505Gibbs is offline
Member
Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles?  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Suburban Deeeetroit
Posts: 2,289
Likes: 82
Liked 1,425 Times in 687 Posts
Default

I've loaded the 458 & the 460.
The 460 with 110g of 4350 & a 500g bullet duplicates the factory trajectory at 100 yds. so I was very satisfied.
I've loaded a 600g Barnes in it - forgot the powder charge but it DEFINITELY gets your attention off hand in the recoil department!
I have the 505 Gibbs but I've stuck with factory ammo bought years ago.
I wasn't quite ready to commit to custom dies at the time.

Last edited by 505Gibbs; 03-04-2021 at 11:25 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #63  
Old 03-04-2021, 01:04 PM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
US Veteran
Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles?  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 13,438
Likes: 3,207
Liked 12,814 Times in 5,709 Posts
Default

c/0 post #8
375 with 134 Grs of powder...............

A pound of powder will give 52 loads if you don't spill any !!

A far cry from my 22-250 at ............ 225 loads, with spills.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #64  
Old 03-04-2021, 03:37 PM
ruggyh's Avatar
ruggyh ruggyh is offline
SWCA Member
Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles?  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: North Texas
Posts: 1,356
Likes: 181
Liked 1,669 Times in 642 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonD View Post
.... The big revolvers can do a lot of damage.

There is an aspect of big revolver penetration that I have never heard an adequate explantion of. Frequently, big heavy slugs will penetrate as much or more at lower velocities even though when hard enough Brinnel wise, the same slugs at higher velocities don't deform much and penetrate less. Strange. Don
Let me say the previous reports mentioned in this thread are flawed because of methodology used.

Penetration is not just about mass but equally or more important is the nose profile and lesser degree construction.
Penetration is also a poor measure of terminal performance.

Where penetration is used Comparing bullets based on weight is off little value if the bullet shape is different and construction allows for a different deformations.

Quote:
(Gun 4 Fun) I believe that the phenomena you are talking about has something to do with the fact that once a bullet reaches certain speeds, it simply can't push whatever medium it is going through aside quik enough to acheive maximum penetration, before running out of steam.
Perception and not fact based.

The surface area of the nose and the profile effect the friction imposed on the bullet. These work to slow the bullet, if there is deformation then the penetration is further impeded by increased friction.

Once the velocity is increased past the bullets construction to with stand deformation penetration is reduced.

This one of the major flaws in tests like those called out in previous test.


I find it interesting there is such a big interest in penetration as a measure of bullet performance, when in fact it is the bullet profile that determines the size of the wound channel along with velocity.

We only require enough penetration to deliver the bullet to the vitals.

Don't get me wrong my preference is to have two holes but it is not a requirement.

On the original topic , I load and use a variety of .458 caliber rifles, 458 SOCOM, 45-70, 458 Lott, 458 Mag, 458 B&M and 458 B&M SS. I only reload one .5 caliber currently the 500 Auto Max.

Although you don't consider the 45-70 a heavy I would say otherwise as would the elephants that have fallen to it.

Bullets are the cheapest part of any hunt, chose a bullet with good terminal performance.
__________________
be safe
Ruggy

Last edited by ruggyh; 03-04-2021 at 03:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #65  
Old 03-05-2021, 01:27 PM
BillBro BillBro is offline
Member
Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles?  
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Communist maryland
Posts: 802
Likes: 228
Liked 1,151 Times in 325 Posts
Default

Havent loaded for it yet but definitely intend to, 500 Nitro Express. I dont have powders or enough brass.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #66  
Old 03-05-2021, 03:47 PM
Cal44 Cal44 is offline
Member
Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles?  
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Northern California
Posts: 3,582
Likes: 5,504
Liked 6,441 Times in 1,870 Posts
Default

I would mention my 375 h&h Winchester, but I won't because it's such a light weight caliber.

And here I thought I was all set if we have an elephant problem here in California.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #67  
Old 03-05-2021, 04:19 PM
Ivan the Butcher Ivan the Butcher is offline
Member
Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles?  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Harlem, Ohio
Posts: 14,589
Likes: 23,937
Liked 26,754 Times in 9,253 Posts
Default

I currently load for my WR double in 450 3 1/4 NE, and a couple of heavy mediums.
In 1982 I bought my WR, the next show that dealer had an H&H 4 bore double (paper cartridge/hull, not brass) cased and complete with loading accessories; IN LIKE NEW CONDITION, only $60,000.00! I bought my farm the next year for $33,000.00 (BTW: 4 bore ammo was only $60 a round back then!) 450 3 1/4 NE Kynok was $25/5 for SP; $28/5 for FMJ.

Ivan
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 03-06-2021, 02:20 AM
Jboutfishn Jboutfishn is offline
Member
Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles?  
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: State Of Jefferson, Ca
Posts: 471
Likes: 93
Liked 153 Times in 93 Posts
Default

No longer load but have all records, 416 Rem Mag, 470 NE.
__________________
State of Jefferson
Jim
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #69  
Old 03-07-2021, 08:10 PM
RussellD RussellD is offline
Member
Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles? Anyone here load for the heavy rifles?  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: America
Posts: 1,562
Likes: 17
Liked 775 Times in 378 Posts
Default

I dont qualify for large rifle, however I did load .375 H&H on my Dillon 550 while living in Alaska.Have the grizzly bear to prove it...LOL
__________________
The American dream is alive
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
Reply

Tags
357 magnum, 44 magnum, brno, bullseye, carbine, cartridge, gunsmith, hornady, remington, ruger, sass, weatherby, wildcat, winchester

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Load data for short barrel rifles Mikeinkaty Reloading 7 03-01-2017 12:47 PM
Prayers for a heavy load DeathGrip The Lounge 57 09-02-2014 10:34 PM
Heavy bullets/load in a M29-10 crackshotsdad Reloading 4 09-21-2013 08:37 AM
Is this load to heavy for a 629-5 HBW1412 Reloading 14 08-19-2012 08:16 PM
Heavy 357 load anchors Ammo 17 05-08-2010 01:33 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:56 PM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)