Is there a down side to Federal primers?

[1sailor]

I was talking with a couple of other shooters I know and one of them mentioned that he needed to pick up some more Federal primers because that's all he used for SD loads. It made sense considering that they are supposed to require a lighter strike to ignite. I have even seen spring manufacturers recommend only Federal primers when using their lightest springs. The question was raised however that if softer primers are easier to ignite then why doesn't everyone else do the same. Gotta be a reason right. None of us were sure what the real reason would be (some pretty good guesses but no real answers). Anyone here that can factually answer that question. Or is there no reason for it and it's just the way things turned out.

[growr]

I will never own a firearm that is primer specific. It must ignite anything I seat in the primer pocket.
As to your original question...don't know the answer to that one.......

Randy

[Nevada Ed]

M49 38 spl snub nose with 110gr Win. SJHP

Red Dot with 4.8 grs.......... oal 1.155" per ( Can.)
Federal primer........... 798-861 @ 840fps
CCI std primer........... 826-911 @ 866fps.

686 6"
red dot 5.2grs win 110gr
Federal.......... 1044fps
cci std ........... 1060fps

I loose fps with the federal primer ..........
it depends on the weapon on which primer gets the bets accuracy.

I liked them until they came out with the "Tripple Size" box, that takes up
all the room in my loading bench!

Win/CCI for me right now for 98% of my loading.

It is a good primer, though, if you can find them.

[Fishslayer]

I won't touch Federal primers because of the PITA packaging. Pain to store, pain to load into a primer tray.

[1sailor]

Yeah, the shoebox size of the packaging is kind of a PITA.

[TomkinsSP]

Is there a down side to Federal primers?

Why yes. There is an "up" side and a "down" side. What's more, they tend to go bang only when loaded up side up.;-) I will go sit in the corner now.

[yeti]

The packaging is um large, but other than that I really like FED primers. QC has been very good & they are consistent. Not the highest brisance (pistol primers) but low SD.

[Eddietruett]

I use only Federal Pistol Primers. I keep an emergency supply of Winchester and CCI just in case the supply dries up. A few of my revolvers have light springs and will only ignite Federal. Also Federal are a little more forgiving if the primer does not seat all the way in.

[SMSgt]

I've never had a problem with any brand of primer with one exception--two duds in the same pack of CCIs about 1975. Could have been a rookie loading problem. Nary a problem since. CCI is my preferred brand for no particular reason. WIN, REM, Fed--never a problem.

I hear the stories that CCIs are "too hard." If I had a gun that wouldn't fire CCIs, I'd take that gun and get it fixed, as the problem is not the primers. You want to put weaker springs in a gun, you get what you get.

Back in my revolver days I'd have high primers that dragged on the frame, but they still all fired. Never had round that needed a second strike. And I know the primers were high because my Lee hand primer was worn out and wouldn't seat fully. I finally replaced it with an RCBS model.

[M29since14]

In shotgun loads I prefer Winchester primers. For everything else, I use only Federal, and not because of the belief that some highly-tuned revolvers require them. None of my guns are setup that way. I prefer them because I always have had good luck with them.

In certain small cartridges (generally the .32s) I use Remington 1-1/2s, but everything else gets Federals only - unless I can’t get them. The 1-1/2s probably aren’t really necessary, but old habits are hard to break.

If there is a drawback, it’s sure the enormous packaging. I’ve never seen any actual test results that document that Federal primer cups are softer than others.

[pittpa]

Originally Posted by Fishslayer

I won't touch Federal primers because of the PITA packaging. Pain to store, pain to load into a primer tray.

I've used them for 20+ years, have not experienced any of these problems. They're reliable in guns that have trigger jobs. My Pythons, my 625 with Miculek spring kit.
EDIT, I don't require formal testing. My Pythons and 625 are unreliable with other primers. The Federal are 100%.

[BigMuddy]

Only downside for me is they are often hard to find.

Dan

[pittpa]

Originally Posted by growr

I will never own a firearm that is primer specific. It must ignite anything I seat in the primer pocket.
As to your original question...don't know the answer to that one.......

Randy

I own 3. They are for competition. That is the nature of revolvers with light triggers that are shot in double action mode.

[reddog81]

The downsides for me are the packaging is huge, they are typically more expensive and they can be hard to find. Even with those downsides I still prefer to use them in most revolver loads.

[ArchAngelCD]

In my area it's difficult to find Federal primers, add in the huge packaging and they're not for me.

I mostly use CCI and Winchester primers. I don't use Remington because they are usually priced very high, much more than the others.

I have used Federal primers and they performed as well as others I've used so no complaints about the primers themselves, it's availability and shelf space that's the problem.

[Westie1]

With one exception, never really worried about what primer I was using. Had a 1911 built when i was shooting USPSA. Smith that built the gun gave me a load to use, and it called for WLP's. And when your smith, who went to the IPSC World Shoot and has shot Bianchi Cup, says to use WLP you use WLP.

Lately, since I've gotten a 6.5Creedmoor, and the range I shoot at has a 1000yd range, I find myself experimenting with different primers.

[6string]

One HUGE problem....
Many (most?) priming tools come with a warning not to use Federal primers.
The price of that ease of ignition is accidental detonation.
A Dillon tube stacked with primers has more than once turned into a powerful explosive through chain detonation.
My brother in law also had an unpleasant Federal primer discharge. Fortunately, it was only a single primer. But, it scared the tar out of him!
Conversely, CCI primers can be tough to seat with the handheld tools.

Jim

[growr]

Originally Posted by pittpa

I own 3. They are for competition. That is the nature of revolvers with light triggers that are shot in double action mode.

I also have three revolvers that I use in USPSA/IDPA and they will run with ANY primer and are still very smooth in Double Action as well.

Randy

[rockquarry]

Originally Posted by 6string

One HUGE problem....
Many (most?) priming tools come with a warning not to use Federal primers.
The price of that ease of ignition is accidental detonation.
A Dillon tube stacked with primers has more than once turned into a powerful explosive through chain detonation.
My brother in law also had an unpleasant Federal primer discharge. Fortunately, it was only a single primer. But, it scared the tar out of him!
Conversely, CCI primers can be tough to seat with the handheld tools.

Jim

I was unaware of this warning. Which primer tool manufacturers issue such a warning?

Some years ago, Lee advised against the use of Federal primers and another one (don't recall the brand) in their original Auto Prime tool with the round plastic primer magazine.

Any primer should work just fine in any out-of-the-box, unmolested firearm. About the only difference will be in accuracy and it takes a pretty accurate gun and a skilled shooter with good bench technique to determine this. Even then, the difference is often slight.

[DWalt]

I can't imagine any of the Lee-type primer pans being subject to mass detonation. That is much more likely with the vertical brass primer tubes, but I have never personally known of that happening to them either. Nor have I ever seen a warning regarding use of Federal primers. In fact, I recently bought a new Lee Auto Bench Prime tool, no warnings about primers anywhere on the box or instructions. If someone can document such a warning concerning Federal primers, I'd like to see a copy of it.

While I have seen and heard many anecdotal tales about which primer brands and types are most impact sensitive, I have yet to see anything resembling quantitative scientific laboratory test results establishing that any primer brand is more or less sensitive than any other brand of the same type primer. And it's a subject that none of the primer manufacturers will talk about. Therefore I continue believe that all those tall tales are in the same category as "fake news" until I see proof that there are significant differences.

[dutch686]

I have to Contenders that will only set off Federal and Wolf primers reliably. For me I have never had a problem with Federal, and it's cheaper to use Federal primers exclusively with my contenders than a few hundred bucks for a shim job.

[Westie1]

Originally Posted by dutch686

I have to Contenders that will only set off Federal and Wolf primers reliably. For me I have never had a problem with Federal, and it's cheaper to use Federal primers exclusively with my contenders than a few hundred bucks for a shim job.

Strange, I also have Contenders and have never had any issue with them as to primers. In fact, with them all I ever used were either CCI 400's or WSR's.

With my 6.5 T/C Compass, I'm starting to play with GM210M's and GM215M's. So those are the first Federals I've bought, and I'm finding they're not all that more expensive than normal CCI or Winchester primers. Plus, the Fed's are a lot cheaper then the CCI BR's.

[rockquarry]

Originally Posted by DWalt

I can't imagine any of the Lee-type primer pans being subject to mass detonation. That is much more likely with the vertical brass primer tubes, but I have never personally known of that happening to them either. Nor have I ever seen a warning regarding use of Federal primers. In fact, I recently bought a new Lee Auto Bench Prime tool, no warnings about primers anywhere on the box or instructions. If someone can document such a warning concerning Federal primers, I'd like to see a copy of it.

While I have seen and heard many anecdotal tales about which primer brands and types are most impact sensitive, I have yet to see anything resembling quantitative scientific laboratory test results establishing that any primer brand is more or less sensitive than any other brand of the same type primer. And it's a subject that none of the primer manufacturers will talk about. Therefore I continue believe that all those tall tales are in the same category as "fake news" until I see proof that there are significant differences.

Lee "explosion testing" or whatever they called was pretty well documented about twenty-five or thirty years ago. I recall one magazine write-up (where I first read about it), but don't recall the magazine. Others may. There is also mention of it in the Lee manual if you want to read about it. I don't remember how much detail they go into, but it may be the complete story.

This was with the first model Lee Auto-Prime with the clear plastic round trays. I always referred to it as the "dangerous model" that worked well to differentiate it from the "safe model" that didn't work well. I think every version made since the dangerous model has a been a variation of the original safe model tool.

I used a few of the original model tools for a long time; they eventually wore out and I tried a couple of the newer versions that can only be described as poor tools. I finally bought a 21st Century priming tool, the best I've found to date, though a Sinclair is about as good.

[df06]

I use Fed primers exclusively for all my handguns, and all my large rifle loads. For small rifle, I use Remington, and shotguns, Winchester.
Nothing scientific about my choices. Those were available when there was a shortage. I bought some, developed many loads for them and have plenty on the shelf these days.

[DWalt]

I have used a Lee hand priming tool (with the round primer tray) for a long time without incident, unfortunately I can't recall just how long, but definitely at least 20 years. It was pretty much worn out which prompted me to buy one of the newer Lee Auto Bench tools last week. To date I have not used the latter very much so I really don't have a good feel as to whether I like it better than the hand tool. At least it uses the same shell holders but it also takes up more room. I am planning to load several hundred .44 Specials tomorrow, so I should know more by this time tomorrow.

My attitude on primers is to buy whatever I can get the best deal on regardless of brand. I already have enough stockpiled to probably last me the rest of my life.

[johngalt]

I prefer Federal. They run through my press with the fewest hiccups. The last batch of Winchester LPP seated much harder for some reason.

[saber58]

I use Federal 215 primers for black powder rifle loads and they work just fine. For all other other loads I generally use Winchester primers. I use an RCBS hand priming tool, and Federal primers definitely have a softer feel and seem to deform more readily. They work, but honestly they're not my first choice.


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[kbm6893]

I handlrime with a Hornady hand priming tool. I slide the package open so two rows are exposed and dump 20 primers into the round tray. Shake one at a time into the feeder, check to make sure it’s rightside up, and seat with a firm squeeze. I’ve used almost exclusively CCI since that’s what’s available. I have had one time that the primer was seated sideways when I didn’t check. It was squashed in but did not detonate. Now I check every time. Not a big deal, I do it while watching tv.

But I have had light strikes several times. Generally one or two in 100 rounds fired. With all of my revolvers but a Ruger Service Six. I figure the heavier hammer and heavier trigger pull negates them from happening.

It might have happened with Federal. I have only bought one brick of those since I never see them. I just reload range ammo so it’s not a big deal. I know I give a firm squeeze on that handle and look at the primer after it’s seated. They appear to be slightly below flush. And it only happens on revolver rounds. I have never once had it happen on my reloaded 9MM or .380.

[Ivan the Butcher]

I rifle shooting, you get enough velocity that accuracy is of paramount importance. (If you really "need" more velocity, you would use a different cartridge, not a different load!)

Some powders don't react consistently with CCI standard primers! But CCI also makes the BR-2 & BR-4 primers.

Remington makes the 7 1/2 primer, considered the best competition primer. But in low pressure loads (and some medium pressure loads) you are much better served with 6 1/2 primers. Remington doesn't make a good Large competition primer!

Winchester make a very good primer, it has a relatively long burning flash, but their consistency is average at best!

Federal Primers: Lapua Ammunition, for boxer primed ammo, only uses Federal Primers! That is an endorsement that cannot be bought or beat!
ALSO, If you load a huge smokeless cartridge, you use a Federal 215 or you don't get complete ignition and you do get lower and inconsistent velocity! My Lapua 338 Mag uses 94 to 104 grains of slow burning powder. CCI LR Mag primers are hot, but not enough duration!

Ivan

[diyj98]

Originally Posted by growr

I will never own a firearm that is primer specific. It must ignite anything I seat in the primer pocket

I agree.

Over the years I’ve mostly bought whatever was available or priced best. I’ve used plenty of Federal primers with no issues.

[SMSgt]

Originally Posted by Westie1

Strange, I also have Contenders and have never had any issue with them as to primers. In fact, with them all I ever used were either CCI 400's or WSR's.

Likewise, my .223 and .30 Herrett barrels never seemed to care what primer was in them.

[Forrest r]

Originally Posted by SMSgt

Likewise, my .223 and .30 Herrett barrels never seemed to care what primer was in them.

If that contender in question is having issues igniting primers, something is wrong with it. They have sledgehammer fp hits!!!!

I use my contender for target work & silhouettes so the trigger is down to 14oz. The contender setup to practice freepistol.


Same contender setup for standing rimfire silhouettes

[Forrest r]

Originally Posted by diyj98

I agree.

Over the years I’ve mostly bought whatever was available or priced best. I’ve used plenty of Federal primers with no issues.

Not me, love my "tuned" ppc revolver built by Schneider gets a steady diet of federal primers.

[jim lock]

I have a S@W 625 (45acp) which has a light double action, the hammer spur was removed. I use federal primers exclusively which are seated .008 to .010 deep. The 625 runs flawlessly. I use the same set up in all my 1911's and have no issues. CCI and Winchester's will not ignite in the 625.I believe this is pretty much the norm in revolvers when DAO triggers get to being that light. This is a competition gun, I would not recommend this on CCW. Jim

[mike campbell]

I run S&B and Win in all my handguns except the two revolvers that get Fed for DAO competition. I don't need a scientifical, laboratorical, statistically significant, triple blind evaluation by a world-reknown scientist to tell me which primers won't work in my competition revolvers.

But my '68 Firebird 400 won't run on 87 octane so I'm gonna get it fixed so it runs just like my Prius.

Oh, and I won't buy a box of nails that my hammer won't drive...

[nachogrande]

Older than the 270 VS 30-06 or BEST bear caliber??? It shows no sign of ending. Of course (in minutia) no 2 primers will be EXACTLY the same. As mentioned a well working gun should ignite them all, IMO.

[fredj338]

No real downside other than availability with some pistol.

[Johnrh]

No downside at all IMO. But I must use softer primers, federal or win., in my revolvers as CCI and Wolf will not be reliable.

[Duckford]

Light primers can be potentially dangerous in certain firearms with floating firing pins. When I bought a new M1a several years ago it came with two or three extra documents reading you the riot act on light primers, especially with match rifles. Said it was a possibility with all rifles, but that match rifles with tighter tolerances were of the highest concern. If the bolt goes forward hard and the firing pin travels with it fast enough and the forward travel of the pin is hard enough as the case starts to enter the chamber and resist it could cause a "soft" primer with high brisancy to go off before it fully enters the chamber, or as it chambers. The result, at best, is an unwanted slamfire misfire that wastes a round and surprises you, at worse a round not fully chambered can blow up a gun and you, catostrophic failure.

Also discussed an NRA test from back in the day where they attempted to cause a safe slamfire by inserting a cartridge directly into the chamber of an M1a and then letting the bolt go forward from all the way back, managed to get 3 out of 1,000 to slamfire. Lesson on that is just put the cartridge into the top of the magazine and let the bolt go forward, i guess. It does illustrate the problems and possibilities. A reloader with sensitive primers and a very tight spec gun, or a very loose and sloppy one, could run into a problem one day.

The recommendation listed was to use military or CCI primers to avoid problems. Didn't say much about civilian market rounds that might be more sensitive, but cautioned the reloader on the issue. As for me, I may not enjoy the benefits of custom guns, all mine are GI or have swapped out with other GI parts, but I also never worry about primer issues, wither they fail to fire from light strikes or blow up for some reason. When I start getting into my 308/7.62 cast loading that I asked about on this board I'm going to have to read up on the issue again myself, no sense in saving money on reloading if you pay it out on a new rifle or hospital bills.

[Jeff423]

Originally Posted by 6string

One HUGE problem....
Many (most?) priming tools come with a warning not to use Federal primers.
The price of that ease of ignition is accidental detonation.
A Dillon tube stacked with primers has more than once turned into a powerful explosive through chain detonation.
My brother in law also had an unpleasant Federal primer discharge. Fortunately, it was only a single primer. But, it scared the tar out of him!
Conversely, CCI primers can be tough to seat with the handheld tools.

Jim

When I had a detonation it was with Federal primers. When I called Dillon for some replacement parts their only question was whether I was using Federal primers.

[DCC]

Yup - Due to light springs I use Federal in some of my revolvers. My Webley's don't care what I use...they whack 'em so hard they're not fussy.
Downside is cost.
Never, they say never say never, had any problems using Lee kit.
Did some crude testing a few year ago crushing various primers in a vice and nothing went bang.
Maybe someone here can in the trade can confirm that there is a ball bearing drop test carried out by manufacturers and the military to ensure that primers are not overly sensitive.

[Eddietruett]

Originally Posted by reddog81

The downsides for me are the packaging is huge, they are typically more expensive and they can be hard to find. Even with those downsides I still prefer to use them in most revolver loads.

RCBS has a large square primer tray/flipper that fits the Federal perfect. They are a PITA with the round style trays