300 gr. Gold Dot in .45 Auto Rim?

[David Sinko]

Has anybody tried loading the 300 gr. Gold Dot in the .45 Auto Rim? Or even a 300 gr. cast bullet? What powders would be suitable? I have both Power Pistol and 2400. I'm wondering what kind of velocity is attainable or if this would be a waste of time. I can not find any 250 gr. Gold Dot so out of desperation I bought a box of 300 gr. for the .45 Colt, but I can't help but wonder how it would perform in the shorter case.

Dave Sinko

[Erich]

I have never gone higher than 255-gr with the .45 AR. I'm not the world's expert on this subject or anything, but it seems to me that you want a .45 Colt for heavier bullets than that, if you intend to get any velocity out of them. New powders are great, and everything, but case capacity and operating pressures pretty much preclude moving a 300-grainer out at any kind of useful velocity from a S&W N-frame in .45 AR/ACP.

[Paul5388]

David,

The heaviest bullet I've used has been a 270 gr LSWC. I used 13.0 gr of 2400 and got right at 960 fps out of ACP brass. I was using a M625-4, so strength wasn't too much of an issue for me. However, I worked that load specifically for a M1917 at the request of an experienced reloader.

We shot that load in his M1917 without incident, but he ended up getting a M625 just for that load.

[Skip Sackett]

David,
Sounds like a fun endeavor even if a tad impractical. How much longer is the 300gr over the 250gr? Will you be able to seat them out at a longer OAL than the 250gr?

The thing that would concern me the most is seating depth. If you seat the bullets to the same OAL and the 300gr is much longer than the 250gr, with faster powders you could end up in trouble. Slower powders aren't going to allow you to get enough in a case to do much good.

I know what I would do if I were faced with the same set of circumstances, shoot them and see what I could develop!

If I could offer a suggestion, here it is: "Use a powder with a burn rate over AA#7 that has as little case fill as possible. Reduce a 250gr starting load by 10% and try that. If you can use a longer OAL I would "up" the charge to start at 5% reduction depending on a few other factors."

The bullet Paul speaks of is a perfect example of a heavy bullet with a minimal amount of seating depth. I don't have any of them right now but maybe Paul can measure some up for us. The greatest amount of his bullet is outside the case. Kind of like an Elmer Keith design gone wild!

[2sigs]

Great topic

I did not see what you are shooting this out of but I have a 1917 and here are my thoughts on it.

The 1917 S&W DA has light rifling and over size throats so if I was working up a extra heavy load(over 250) for it I would use a soft cast of say .452-.454 dia.

I realize a soft bullet may not engage the rifling at higher velocity. However I think at the likely lower velocity of starting load this would not be an issue. It may though as pressure/Velocity is increased, at which point a harder bullet or change in dia. may be desired.

I agree most importantly when working this weight class load up to seat as far out as possible without tying up the cylinder upon firing.

These are just my thoughts and nothing more I have never loaded heavier than 230 LRN or Jacketed in mine.

Like I said this is a great topic and I'm very interested in the outcome

Best Wishes
-2sigs

[Paul5388]

Skip brings up an important topic is seating depth. The bullet I use has very little bullet seated in the case in comparison to some lighter bullets. Here's a comparison of 4 bullets where you can see how the seating depth changes.



The Ohaus bullet is the 270 gr I use most, but the RCBS .45-255-KT (or SWC) is very usable too and it weights close to 270 gr in my alloy.

This is what the Ohaus bullet looks like in .45 Super brass and a normal taper crimp.



I suppose the RCBS .45-270 SAA would be acceptable for a heavier bullet, but I haven't actually loaded it to know for sure.

The Oregon Trails 255 gr seats very deep in the case and developes more velocity, probably from increased pressure with the same 13.0 gr of 2400 load.

The Ohaus I use comes from a Lee mold group buy at castboolits, but the mold is also available from NEI (.45-255 Jon Campbell is the designation for ordering). Jerry (GLL ) has one of the two molds from the original NEI order and I think he bought two molds in the group buy.

I have some bullets from the original Ohaus mold, but I prefer the larger lube groove that's on the mold I have.

[David Sinko]

I have three 625-4s, all with different barrel configurations and it seems the chambers are all slightly different too. I recall loading the 255 gr. SWC slightly long and it would fit into the cylinders of two of the revolvers but not the third. It seems nothing can be taken for granted.

Another concern is that .45 Super brass with its thicker web would lack case capacity. I have loaded .45 Super equivalent loads with 255 gr. bullets and ACP brass and do not see any evidence of excessive pressure. I believe Super brass is best left to the autos with their unsupported chambers. It seems the 625 cylinder walls are strong enough to safely fire heavy loads without the thicker brass.

I guess the first thing I'll do is load up some dummy rounds with ACP brass and the 300 gr. GDHP. I'll see how long I can load them before I have chambering difficulties. I think 2400 would be the best (safest?) starting powder. If I can manage, say... 830 FPS, could it be considered a success? Even if the bullet doesn't expand, could I expect through and through penetration of a whitetail at close range?

Dave Sinko

[Paul5388]

David, I don't know if you're familiar with this article by Marshall Stanton Beartooth Bullets > Tech Notes, but it may help figure out what to expect from various bullet weights and configurations.

My use of Super brass is mainly due to having it and to help me identify the load so I don't try to use it in a 1911 (they might need some spring changes before using the load).

I've shot up to 1100 fps out of ACP brass, so I think the regular brass is plenty strong.

[CW3PA]

There's an article from "Handloader" magazine # 240 dealing with 300 grain bullets loaded in .45 acp. The author used rebaited 300 gr bullets from Northwest Custom Bullets in order to avoid bulging his brass when seating long, heavy "normal" bullets. Granted he was loading for a .45 acp semi-auto. The .45 Auto Rim in a revolver might give you more room to lengthen the cartridge OAL, so you could use Gold Dots.

These are 265gr, but the 300gr look similar.
Hope this helpful.

[David Sinko]

I don't think this will work with the 300 gr. GDHP. The bullets are seated too deeply into the case, which causes bulging and small powder capacity. And for reasons I do not understand, these bullets are kind of "pointy" as if designed to feed in a semiauto. Most of the other Gold Dot revolver bullets I have seen have a wide, sharp hollow "point" which appears to be a much better approach. So I guess these will be reserved for my short Redhawk .45 Colt. I don't have any other 300 gr. bullets and don't want to buy any just for this purpose, only to find that they don't work. I'll just stick with the 255 gr. max weight and maybe try other heavier bullets as I acquire them.

Dave Sinko

[fredj338]

Originally Posted by Paul5388

I suppose the RCBS .45-270 SAA would be acceptable for a heavier bullet, but I haven't actually loaded it to know for sure.
I have some bullets from the original Ohaus mold, but I prefer the larger lube groove that's on the mold I have.

I have loaded the RCBS in my 45AR, works fine. Cast from 50/50 ww/lead, they come in about 285gr. I can push them along safely @ 825fps using Unique. Just an experiment, I don't see the point of that much bullet wt. at that low a vel. The same bullet w/ a large HP comes in at 250gr & can get to 900fps, seems more readonable.