356 TSW Reloads

Anyone reloading 356 TSW? I need experience on dies and load data before purchasing dies and powder. My reloading experience is limited to 45 ACP target loads. Thanks for any experience or advice.

You can use regular 9x19 dies and 9mm componts. Look at some of the ISPC/USPSA 9x21 major loads for some load suggestions.

handgunner356 said:

You can use regular 9x19 dies and 9mm componts. Look at some of the ISPC/USPSA 9x21 major loads for some load suggestions.

Click to expand...

I agree with Handgunner in that its not much more than a 'hot' 9mm. Case length 2.5mm longer than the 'standard' 9x19 i.e. 9mm luger etc.

Here's more from an article by Massad Ayoob :
the .356 TSW round that Smith & Wesson and distributor Lew Horton debuted in 1995. It failed at the time because it was sold as an IPSC combo and was unnecessarily hot for that application. However, with the Cor-Bon 124 grain jacketed hollowpoint at a true 1,450 feet per second, the .356 now equaled the best .357 SIG and .357 Magnum of identical ballistics!

The .356 TSW (formerly: "Team Smith & Wesson"; now, more wisely: "Tactical Smith & Wesson") has an advantage over the .357 SIG. The SIG is a bottleneck round, a .40 S&W casing necked down to 9mm. The .356 TSW is a straight 9mm casing (9X21.5, for those who like details) and, thus, more rounds can fit into a magazine.

The only 16-shot .357 SIG is the Glock 31. It can reach full capacity using .40 caliber mags, but your customer must find grandfathered Glock 22 (.40 caliber) hi-cap magazines, which were only made for five years before the "no more than 10-round" ban. With the .356 TSW, your customer has ready and affordable access to millions of Smith & Wesson 9mm magazines made for a quarter century. They are still legal and will work fine with the TSW round.

The .356 TSW didn't sell the first time around because it wasn't marketed to where it had the most potential. Smith & Wesson won't make the same mistake twice. Mate this gun with 124 grain Cor-Bon hollowpoints, and you've got a winner. Pete Pi at Cor-Bon tells me he hasn't produced the round in years, but the last fresh stocks are available to you from one distributor who had faith and stocked up.

handgunner356 said:

You can use regular 9x19 dies and 9mm componts. Look at some of the ISPC/USPSA 9x21 major loads for some load suggestions.

Click to expand...

Thanks handgunner356. Where can I access the ISPC/USPSA 9X21 major load data?

Here's one source.
http://www.k8nd.com/documents/hl9x21.pdf

One of my pet loads is a 124gr JFN with 6.7grs Universal Clays, runs just over 1335fps major power factor and a nice load for plates.

Thanks handgunner356. This will be very helpful.

Does anyone else have a 356 TSW pet load? How about one that duplicates the Federal Premium 147 Gr Hydra-Shok?

If you can chronograph your loads, you can get them in the range they were designed to run at.
That would be significantly hotter than a 9 x 19.
You might find this some interesting reading:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...ne-questions-update-found-356-tsw-barrel.html


Here is some data I have collected from board members over the years;

Sierra - 6.3grs. Universal w/Sierra 125 - 1300fps & 469 ft.#
You can use 9x21 data but standard 9x21 is the same as 9x19.
What you want to find is load data for the 9x21 used in IPSC/USPSA to make major.
The 356 has a much stronger case and can handle higher pressure than what the 9x21 was originaly designed for.
All 3 use the same max overall length of 1.169" with round nose bullets.
It's usually best to stay around 1.135-1.145" with flat nose so they'll feed well in the mag.
The Federal Gold Medal was 147gr@1250fps in a 5" barrel, while the Hydra-shock 147gr was more around 1080fps,
which made it basicly 9mm+P.
Any 9mm+P load would also be a good starting point,
the main thing to remember is that there is very little case capacity and just a little increase in powder or shorter overall length will increase pressure very quickly.

Normal 9mm dies should be used.
The S&W 356tsw is a 9x21.5 tapered just like the 9mm x19.
You can not use a straight walled die like the 38super.
I was given this load by someone on the forum that has been using this load for quite some time and that has proven to be the most accurate for him in a 5 inch 3356.
124gr FMJ .355 9mm bullet
7.5gr. Accurate #7 powder
OAL 1.165
Use premium bullets less expensive bullets very too much and will not be as accurate.

Here is a little more;

Federal or Starline brass. - .356TSW
Primer Winchester WSP
Powder: Accurate #5 - 6.9 Gr.
Bullet: 147 Gr. Remington FP Match

AA#5 9x19mm cart Overall length = 1.169", Win 115 gr .541", RP primed brass, Kel-Tec P11

0) Minimum charge to cycle pistol........ 5.0 gr 800 fps 12,000 psi
1) 9x19mm.................................7.7 gr 1260 fps 34,000psi
2) 9x19mm +P............................. 8.0 gr 1324 fps 37,400psi
3) 9x19mm +P+............................ 8.3 gr 1353 fps 40,800psi
4) .356TSW............................... 9.1 gr 1455 fps 49,000psi
5) Primer pierce, case bulge ............10.0 gr 1600 fps 65,000psi
6) Case failure[hole] threshold [kaboom].10.7 gr 1700 fps 81,000 psi
7) Case head separation [big kaboom].....11.5 gr wrecks extractor and hold open
I hope this puts the load in perspective.

9 m.m. - 115g. - 8.7 - #7 - 1.135-1.145" with flat nose

Here are the chronographed velocities for these two loads in a PC Model 3566
Federal 147 gr Match - 1167 fps/445 fpe
Corbon 124 gr BHP - 1356 fps/506 fpe

Hornady 115 gr XTP-HP/8.4 grs WAP/1358 fps/471 fpe
Hornady 124 gr XTP-HP/8.0 grs WAP/1303 fps/468 fpe
Hornady 124 gr FMJ-FP/8.0 grs WAP/1290 fps/458 fpe
Remington 147 gr FMJ/6.9 grs WAP/1110 fps/402 fpe

New Starline brass, 6.2 grs. Universal powder, 124 gr. gold dot HPs, Win. SP primers

Regards,
BM1

Thanks bad_man_ one for the data and information. I plan to assemble as much information as possible before doing any actual reloading. I think the 356 TSW is a great cartridge. It is a shame that S&W got stiffed with it by the IPSC. It seems to be about equal with the 357 Sig but with about 3 more rounds in the magazine. I also have the 9mm P barrel to use until I get a load that I like.

505Gibbs said:

I agree with Handgunner in that its not much more than a 'hot' 9mm. Case length 2.5mm longer than the 'standard' 9x19 i.e. 9mm luger etc.

Here's more from an article by Massad Ayoob :
the .356 TSW round that Smith & Wesson and distributor Lew Horton debuted in 1995.

Click to expand...

Some wrong info here
The first .356 Limiteds were shipped 6/93
By '95 it was pretty much over

Spoke to Peter Pi by email

I emailed CorBon to see if I could get some information on their load.
I was pleasantly surprised when the responded immediately.


Hello Mr. Peter Pi,
I am an avid fan of the defunct Smith and Wesson .356 TSW Ammo.
I have six hand guns and a Marlin Camp-9 carbine chambered in this caliber.
I use your 124 gr. BHP's at 1450 fps and love them.
I also shoot the Federal Match 147 gr. and the Hydra-Shoks.

I was hoping to get some load data on your round.
I see it was the Speer 124 gr. Gold Dot Bonded Hollow Points.
And the rounds had 11.2 grains of powder in them.
But I don't know who the manufacturer of the powder is.
I have compared it to 15 different powders that I have, to no avail.
I would prefer to use the same power (or one similar) that you loaded these rounds with, they work GREAT.
Rather than going through the chronograph process with different powders.

I also contacted Starline Brass to see if they had any left but they do not have any anymore.

I've been reloading for awhile and also reload 10 other calibers;
9 m.m., 357 SIG, .40 S&W, 10 m.m., .38 Wad Cutters, .38 Special/Magnum, .44 Special/Magnum, .45 ACP

I'm in a little bit of a bind here with this.

Thank you for your help,
BM1


The reply;
Sir,
While I'm a big fan of the 356 TSW ammo S&W did not produce enough guns to warrant keeping it in production. The guns were only available through the Performance Center. S&W was going to produce a factory production gun at one time, but that never materialized. We no longer have any ammunition or brass having sold out years ago.

I looked up the data on our old 124gr load and it was an OEM powder that was not commercially available to reloaders and has been long discontinued. The closest thing to it would be Accurate No 7. I would start with a charge weight of about 10.5 grains and work up to a max Charge weight of 11.3 grains watching for excess pressure signs. Hope this information helps you out.

Peter R Pi Sr
President & CEO
CorBon/Glaser Products
1311 Industry Rd
Sturgis, SD 57785
Ph 605.347.4544
Fax 605.347.5055
Dakota Ammo

505Gibbs said:

I agree with Handgunner in that its not much more than a 'hot' 9mm. Case length 2.5mm longer than the 'standard' 9x19 i.e. 9mm luger etc.

Here's more from an article by Massad Ayoob:
the .356 TSW round that Smith & Wesson and distributor Lew Horton debuted in 1995. It failed at the time because it was sold as an IPSC combo and was unnecessarily hot for that application. However, with the Cor-Bon 124 grain jacketed hollowpoint at a true 1,450 feet per second, the .356 now equaled the best .357 SIG and .357 Magnum of identical ballistics!

The .356 TSW (formerly: "Team Smith & Wesson"; now, more wisely: "Tactical Smith & Wesson") has an advantage over the .357 SIG. The SIG is a bottleneck round, a .40 S&W casing necked down to 9mm. The .356 TSW is a straight 9mm casing (9X21.5, for those who like details) and, thus, more rounds can fit into a magazine.

Click to expand...

Please let me know what "hot" 9 m.m. can achieve the specifications of the CorBo 124 gr. BHP's at 1450 fps?
I know of only one, 9x23 Winchester 125 gr. Super-X® Silvertip® Hollow Point @1450 fps.
Regards,
BM1

Loading the .356TSW

I've been loading the .356TSW since 1992 for my 5" limited. I have used Federal, Starline, Winchester 9X23 and .223 brass. The Federal and 9X23 brass will take the pressure and the Starline is ok but tends to be soft for the heavy loads. Using 223 Brass just takes too long to make and since I purchased 10 cases of Federal 147TMJ and 5 cases of the Federal Hydra-Shok plus 5000 pieces of Starline I don't need to make any more.
Federal small pistol used in all, the magnum or rifle primers showed to much deviation.
I have used everything from Unique to Bullseye.
With the 124 grain HBDS from Berry's Bullets Start at 4.5 Grains of Winchester 231 max 6.1gr Oal. 1.090 to 1.169 pending much you want to push 231 My max is 8.3 Grains. 1250fps to 1330 fps with.12 std Dev.,30,600 C.U.P.
147 grain Gold dot or TMJ. Accurate #7 (AA#7) Start 7.4 Grains with a listed max of 9.2 + 1330 to 1400 fps, Oal. 1.169 or .003 off throat, @33000 C.U.P. @ 1330 (std. dev. 12fps) this load will hold 1.78" at 50 meters from a good rest and optic. 1330 is equal to the Winchester Ranger 9mm +P+ 127 Gr. SXT. Penetration thru 3 layers of Clothing 2)1/2'sheet rock is 16.678" of Ballistic Gel @ 83 degrees.
Basically start with any listed 9X21 load and work up until you see signs of pressure. Lymans Third edition Pistol & Revolver has a good section of 9X21 loads. Ramshot/Accurate Ballisticians Gave me two bullet weights based on their data:
Bullet, 124gr, Powder AA#7, Start 8.4, max 9.3 = 1375 - 1450
Bullet, 147gr, powder AA#7, Start 7.2 = 1100-1150: Max 8.0 1250 - 1350 to start with: Vihta Vuori Oy is too hard to locate in my area and AA#7 and 231 are easy to find and stable to work with. N340 will push the 9mm GD 147gr right at 1150, very accurate. These are safe in my gun and I have pushed their loads up considerably from listed 1400 + is not to hard to reach with the right oal.