With 45 Colt's like this, who needs a magnum anything?

Skip Sackett

Skip Sackett

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Title got you didn't it! :)

I have been playing around for quite a while now with the venerable 45 Colt. Never had much need for one before as I was bent on the faster flatter shooting magnum rounds, mostly 44.

Then I got the bug. Read some of John Linebaugh's stuff, had a 40 minute talk with him on the phone and whalah, I got bit!

Well, I went out and bought a Ruger 45 Convertible to test some of those "Ruger Only" loads out of. Man, did I get a surprise!

Then I got a new mould. It is a Saeco 294456, 230gr RN that I thought I would try. Now, this is a 45ACP bullet, meaning that there is no crimp groove and believe me, these bullets would need to be crimped! Otherwise there would certainly be bullets jumping out of cases. I used a Lee Factory Crimp Die in 45ACP to produce a nice taper crimp on them. Seemed to work well, at least if you look at the numbers, it did!

Now all I need is a nice Smith 625 in 45Colt to add to this collection!

I loaded them with Unique and headed to the range. These were maximum Ruger only loads so I hesitate to post them. Send me a PM is you want the recipe.

Here were the results from the 5 1/2" Ruger:
Low: 1012fps
High: 1058fps
AVG: 1029fps
ES: 46fps
SD: 19fps

Then I put them in my Puma lever action rifle, here are those results:
Low: 1273fps
High: 1319fps
AVG: 1290fps
ES: 46fps
SD: 13fps

Not too shabby for Ole' Unique. I did use magnum primers but didn't need to, just what was on hand in the Lee Classic Turret at the time. Another thing of interest to me was that I loaded them on the Lee and had this consistent of results. I even used the Lee powder measure with the double disks added to it! Imagine!

Groups were good at 25 yards with both firearms, going into about 2" using support. I even took some shots at a couple of targets @ 50 yards and sure enough they showed up on the Shoot - n - see!

At any rate, enjoying the fact that as an American I can still go out on a Monday afternoon and throw some lead downrange without the SS or gestapo coming to get me!

Had fun!
 
Skip,

Using max load of H4227, I get about 1450 fps out of my Handi rifle, but I'm also using that 270 gr Ohaus bullet. I don't own a .45 Colt handgun, so everything I shoot is out of that 20" Handi rifle. Blue Dot will only give me 1270 fps, but Lil'Gun will kick it up to 1620 fps.

I was looking for a .45 caliber that's a little easier on the lead supply than my .45-70 and still use the moulds I already have for my M625 in .45 ACP.
 
Elmer Keith reported that the factory load [circa 1930/40?] .45 Long Colt was used to kill a grizzly with one shot.

I have loaded for this cartridge since 1973. At that time I bought a Ruger 4 5/8 inch Blackhawk, three-screw version. They were/are rare, especially the 45 ACP extra cylinder models.

At the same time there were some articles coming out in the gun mags advertising 1200 fps loads with modern components and Rugers.

I loaded mine to an estimated 1100 fps with the now defunct Hornady 250 grain jacketed hollow point. I also loaded the old Sierra 185 grain .45 ACP hollowpoints to around an estimated 1000 fps or faster.

That was the only .45 Long Colt I tried to load for accuracy or power. All the rest have been Ubertis and Colt SAA's used in cowboy action shooting and therefore they are loaded to about 850 fps and accuracy is not pursued as they need to only group within "minute-of-steel" as the targets in CAS are big and close.

But any .45 Long Colt with a 250 grain bullet at about 1000 fps is a very, very potent handgun.

It is fun to shoot a factory type load at tin cans in the dirt. They will truly jump high if hit right.

I no longer have that Ruger and it is the only firearm I ever sold that I wished I still had.

I currently have a Colt New Service in .45 Long Colt and will be looking for an accurate, factory velocity load with a 250 grain bullet.
 
Big fan of the .45 colt myself.

I use 9g Unique and a cast 250g RNFP for @ 900fps - the original BP duplicate.

Smooth and easy on the hand, powerful and decisive on the business end.

Mine is a 25-7, but one day I would like to find a 25-5 in 4" as I see it as a perfect field gun.

Until then, I'll find solace in packing a 3" 629-2. :)
 
smith crazy said:
Then I got the bug. Read some of John Linebaugh's stuff, had a 40 minute talk with him on the phone and whalah, I got bit!
Click to expand...

John can be a pretty convincing spokesperson for the .45 Colt, can't he? ;)

Twenty-five years ago, he was big on 25-5s with 310-315 gr. loads and Win. 296 powder. More of his "packable power" stuff. Of course these shot about a foot high out of most 25-5s unless you replaced the front sight, and it kind of gave you the creeps if you read the warnings about reduced loads of H-110/296 and paid any attention to them. At that time, I think John estimated his loads were running around 25,000 - 28,000 PSI. For chickens like me, he used to suggest an alternate - HS-6.

Lately, he seems to have developed a fascination with the Mountain Guns in both .45 and 44 Magnum. I think in the process of changing to the lighter guns he has also scaled his handloads back a bit. He's a fun fellow to talk with and has a great knowledge base to share, but is also a pretty good listener. Not a common combination. :)
 
True, so true!

M29since14 said:
John can be a pretty convincing spokesperson for the .45 Colt, can't he? ;)

He's a fun fellow to talk with and has a great knowledge base to share, but is also a pretty good listener. Not a common combination. :)
Click to expand...

He is an exceptional listener. I also noticed a "twinge" of detective in him to. He is one of those folks that can ask just the right question to see where you are in your understanding.
Not an interrogator, really, but someone that can ascertain in just a few minutes if you are sincere or an idiot, although, I'm sure he wouldn't just call you one to your face. That is, unless you pressed him to! ;)

I have the Ruger I spoke of and "Linebaugh Lite" round that I run in it. It is a 240gr H&G #502 with 25gr of either H110 or W296 under it with magnum primers. Now that baby, is a handful and gives about 1300fps from the BH and amost 1800fps from the Puma.

Now that thing really makes the 45Colt sing! :)

(This is where I put out the usual disclaimer about the info in this post being safe only in my firearms! ;) )
 
That's a good write up Skip, thanks for taking the time to post it. I'm also a big fan of the .45 Colt. IMO it still has a place in the back country.
 
I tend to agree also - if you need to go bigger than the 357, the Ruger 45 Colt or the 5-shot models are the way to go - if you need bigger yet - then the 475 Linebaugh or one of the 500's should fit the bill. Most will never need anyting larger than a 340 grain hardcast coasting along at 1,100fps from a Ruger 45 Colt but then again "need" rarely, if ever, has anything to do with our choice of revolvers.

John Linebaugh is just a great down to earth everyday type of guy and will take the time to speak to anyone - as reported, he spoke with Skip "smith crazy" for 40 minutes and this man makes some of the best big bore custom revolvers on the planet and his time is worth about $300.00 an hour but he'll talk to you for an hour or more if needed to assist you - just a great guy.
 
Exactly why I sold off all my 44 Magnum guns and ammo last winter and stuck with the 45 Colt guns and ammo.

Thanks for another great post/thread, Skip!

Noah
 
I remember my first 45 colt. I bought it around 1972-3 in 7 1/2 inch barrel and ACP interchangeable cylinder. Later on I decided I didn't like the barrel length and got another (3-screw) one with 4 5/8" barrel and kept it for ions.

Today, I wish I had kept the first one as for some reason I still remember the serial number...45-00075!! I should be "horse whooped" for trading it. Paid a whopping $75 for it best I recall.

I used the Keith style SWC and 9 gr of Unique-a great standby. I even loaded those W-W cases a time or two with 35 gr of FFFg just for nostalgia sake. Talk about smoke! Of course I had to lay down a cloud of smoke by holding the trigger back and thumbing the hammer. It took about ten seconds to even see my target. Great old cartridge and as good a man stopper as you can find. If you don't believe me, ask Elmer.:D
 
I'm sorry but I don't see the point. The .45 Colt is what it is and if you want more noise and fps and recoil there are guns that do that. If you're just doing this for fun then go for it, but if you want downrange energy there are guns and cartridges that will do it for you without risk of injury to yourself or the firearm. I rarely load my .44 mags at their potential because pain is not something I'm into. I have no interest at all in the hand cannons bigger than that. I have a lot of rifles. (Or at least I think I do, some people have more pre-64 model 70s than I do guns.)

Please tell me where I've gone wrong.
 
Count me as well as a big fan of the old cartridge. The 270 gr RCBS slug at 950 to 1000 fps is a formidable load. And easily obtained in any modern , Ruger SA or Smith DA.

Any of the 250-260 gr RN/SWC lead slugs at 850 to 950 fps are accurate, easy on the shooter, great field loads, and can kill any deer going at a reasonable distance.

What more could one want?

I've got a USFA SAA 5.5", M25-7 5", and a Freedom Arms 6" in .45 Colt.

Hell of a battery .....good for anything here in MT.

FN in MT
 
Hello guys. Thanks for the info and discussion.

With the recent trade of my 3" model 29-4 I realized I was
down to 2 model 629s' while my 45 Colt collection was
growing monthly.

When I handload 45 Colt i am always at my friends house
as he has a Dillon 1050 set up for it, and we just go by the book and whatever
powder we have available at the time.

Usually Unique ,or one of the Accurate offerings.

Now that I have my new glasses and everything beyond 25
yards doesn't look so fuzzy ,I'll have to try out some of my loads
for accuracy and post them up.

I don't think I have anything loaded beyond 1050 f.p.s. and no
larger than a 250 gr. Keith bullet or 250 gr. XTP.

I just counted 9 Smiths ,a Colt New Service ,and a Winchester
in 45 Colt.
I think I've gone over the edge ....

Good Luck! Allen Frame
 
In a handgun, the .45 ACP will easily do what most are talking about needing a .45 Colt for. I shoot 270 gr bullets at 950 fps with little problem. It's mainly a matter of pressure the ACP can and will develope vs what has to be a stretch for the .45 Colt. The M625 can easily stand .45 Super pressures and can also be converted to a .460 Rowland.

If NEF/H&R had made a .45 ACP barrel, that's what I would be shooting instead of the Colt.

Since I also have a H&R Shikari in .44 Mag, I don't think you'll convince me the .45 Colt is anywhere close to being the same.
 
SWID,
I understand that you don't see the point. I guess I'm not into converting anyone to my point of view so.....Suffice it to say, the 45Colt is a fine old cartridge and one that can perform in this new world too.

My loads that I posted are far above the top end of typical data for the Ole' Boy but not for today's firearms. There is no danger of blowing up or damaging a firearm here. If they are built to handle the pressure of the 44Mag then these are pussycat loads for them.

It's simply a matter of experimentation. Had the old timers like Keith had the tools available to us today, cases/firearms/powders/reloading equipment, I doubt that the 44Mag would have come out as it did. Now, that is speculation and history is what history is, Elmer did develop the 44Mag, but one just has to wonder what he could have done with a Ruger BH in 45Colt!

Paul,
We have experimented with many many 38spl loads over out reloading careers. We both use some pretty potent stuff. My original post was to stir discussion, as you can well imagine, along the same lines as what we had on "THE LOAD". Now, "THE LOAD" surely isn't a 357Mag and along those same lines, the Ruger only 45Colt loads aren't 44Mag ones but they are mighty close!

I have a Puma rifle that I get a 240gr LSWC up to 1800fps now, how much different is that than your Shikari?

At any rate, the 45Colt, in modern firearms is definitely a formidable foe. From Cowboy action shooting to brush busting hunting, in my book, this one is a great choice! From mild to WILD! (as they say!)
 
Every time I read 45 Long Colt I cringe...why do we continue to add long to 45 Colt? When I was a kid 50 years ago no one said or wrote 45 Long Colt. Today t is so over used ...If you want to differinate between common 45's use 45 Colt and 45 acp. I mean the 460 Smith could be called 45 long long long Colt....
Charlie
 
smith crazy said:
...Had the old timers like Keith had the tools available to us today, cases/firearms/powders/reloading equipment, I doubt that the 44Mag would have come out as it did. Now, that is speculation and history is what history is, Elmer did develop the 44Mag, but one just has to wonder what he could have done with a Ruger BH in 45Colt!
Click to expand...

There is another dimension to this line of thought. It doesn't apply to handloading the Colt round so much as it does to gun design. For years I have wondered why S&W never bothered to make a true .45-caliber "magnum" instead of the 44 Magnum. It could have been nothing more than a .45 Colt chambered revolver, sufficiently strengthened to handle operating at 44 Magnum pressures. But S&W already had the N-frame platform to work with, sized ideally for a 44-caliber cartridge, thus the 44 Magnum was created, rather than a whole new gun on "a slightly larger N-frame" chambered in .45 caliber. I suppose back then the engineering and tool-making involved would have been an enormous project.

And of course we have to remember that Roy Jinks has commented the company disliked to put the C-word on their guns, for obvious reasons. But the Colt cartridge was already there, just waiting. All they needed was a gun.

If concerned about safety, they could have lengthened the case a sixteenth of an inch and called it the .45 S&W Magnum, and had a real powerhouse, yet something that could still be worn on a belt - and, in my view, something right on the outer edge of the balance between horsepower, weight, and tolerable recoil. As John Linebaugh likes to call it - "packable power." Instead, some years later, we got the X-frame, which is indeed a powerhouse, but is too much iron for most of us to lug around, and is a recoil nightmare for all but the most determined shooters.

A true ".45 Magnum" might have been a different story. Mr. Casull saw that, and made the Freedom Arms revolvers; indisputably fine revolvers, but just not S&Ws. I still think it is something that S&W could sell. I admire the strength and engineering of the X-guns, but will never own one. A .45 Magnum as I describe - I couldn't wait to get my hands on one of those. ;)
 
SWID, I read in a rather long article and I wont bother you with the details, that because the 45 is bigger, bullet size and case size, than the 44, the pressure is less to get a bullet of equal weight to the same velocity.

I have a 25-5 and have never been past 8 grains of Unique. I just don't see the need.
 
Most don't have the need to go much past 1,000fps with a 265 grain hardcast but using the right revolver you can almost match the 454 with the ole 45 Colt if you ever feel the "need". The 25-5 is a great revolver but the Smith just isn't up to a steady diet of heavy 45 Colt loads - it'll take a few every now & then but if you want to give the 454 a run for it's money you'll have to go with an old Linebaugh 6-shot conversion, a "modern" 5-shot conversion, a FA model 83 or a BFR. The speculation of what ole Elmer might have done with the 45 Colt back in the day has been done by John Linebaugh. The 44 Magnum is one very fine cartridge but it has to take a slight step behind the 45 Colt relative to performance with heavy for caliber bullets offered these days in revolvers inspired by John Linebaugh. The difference isn't much with light bullets but it's there and with heavy bullets the 44 Magnum just doesn't measure up, so the 44 Mag is no longer the King it was when Elmer was around, as John Linebaugh removed that crown and put it squarely on the 45 Colt. Linebaugh even made Ross Seyfried a believer and here is Ross's article - it's a great read for all non-believers.

Wolfe Publishing Company
 
Last edited:
charlies said:
Every time I read 45 Long Colt I cringe...why do we continue to add long to 45 Colt? When I was a kid 50 years ago no one said or wrote 45 Long Colt. Today t is so over used ...If you want to differinate between common 45's use 45 Colt and 45 acp. I mean the 460 Smith could be called 45 long long long Colt....
Charlie
Click to expand...

Well, it's been used so long now that it's accepted. Actually, there was/is a .45 short Colt, it's the Schofield.
 
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