No more tumbling de-capped cases

[guntherapist]

I have said it before but still do it, to get them babies to shine.
My procedure has been to first tumble cases in walnut media to clean 'em up and prepared for sizing/decapping. Then tumble again in corn cob media for the shine.
But no more, I am going to change my procedure because I am tired of digging the media out of the flash hole. And if I missed one it could result in a misfire.

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by guntherapist

I have said it before but still do it, to get them babies to shine.
My procedure has been to first tumble cases in walnut media to clean 'em up and prepared for sizing/decapping. Then tumble again in corn cob media for the shine.
But no more, I am going to change my procedure because I am tired of digging the media out of the flash hole. And if I missed one it could result in a misfire.

We could have told you that

[Beemer-mark]

Every once in awhile I have some brass that has been, cleaned and then de-primed and then I decide at a later date that it needs more cleaning. After the second cleaning I re-run it thru the de-primer die. Easiest and surest way to get the pockets clean.

But, best to get them clean BEFORE de-priming.

[pbcaster]

If you are using a progressive press, replace the resize/decap die with a universal decapping die when you load your ammo. The universal decapping die will remove any media left in the flash holes and it will drop into the spent primer catcher. You could do the same thing with the resize/decap die, but there is no need to run the cases with the added strain of resizing them again

If you use "fine" instead of "coarse" corncob media, you will have much less media in the flash holes after tumbling. I use a Dillon, rotary "basket" to seperate the media from the cases. That completely removes the media from about 99% of the cases. The universal decapping die removes anything left in the flash holes of the cases.

The above has worked for me for more years than I can recall without the slightest hint of a problem.

I run the resized/decapped cases in fine corncob media for about 8 hours or so in a Dillon vibratory cleaner. The fine media does a fairly good job of cleaning the primer pockets at the same time it is putting a shine on the cases.

[SMSgt]

Never found the walnuts to plug the hole like corncob does. But spiffy primer pockets aren't an issue with me. I run a pocket scraper thru them once in a blue moon and press on (pun, ya'll).

[cjw3]

I tumble them with the primer in. It is surprising how often a small piece of the media will pop out along with the spent primer. I also expect I spend far too much time with this, but I clean the primer pockets every time with one of those little vibratory wire brush cleaners. It knocks a lot of junk loose, which probably doesn't hurt much if left alone but I just like them clean.

[JohnnieB]

I pre-wash fired brass and tumble in walnut with a hint of Nu-Finish before I de-prime/size.

I only do straight walled revolver/pistol, and use a turret press, but it looks good and goes bang every time.

On the rare occasions I acquire some de-primed brass, I only wash it before loading and then shoot it up as soon as I came so I can process it properly.

Note, I tap each case, inverted on a soft surface before putting it into the press.
John

[madmikeb]

I always re-size and decap mine before tumbling. I've got a piece of thick piano wire with a loop on the end for a handle and when I'm sorting the brass after tumbling I just run the wire through the flash hole. Then I flare them before I put them in the ammo boxes so all I have to do when I want to load some is to prime, add powder and bullets.

[firearmsunlimited]

Originally Posted by guntherapist

I have said it before but still do it, to get them babies to shine.
My procedure has been to first tumble cases in walnut media to clean 'em up and prepared for sizing/decapping. Then tumble again in corn cob media for the shine.
But no more, I am going to change my procedure because I am tired of digging the media out of the flash hole. And if I missed one it could result in a misfire.

How do you plan to clean the primer pockets?

[Rule3]

I never clean primer pockets. Well never say never, I have when loading a few 30-06 . Never on pistol brass.

[Dragon88]

I like my brass clean, but two tumblings is unnecessary IMO. Primer pockets are best cleaned with a quick swipe of a tool or brush after sizing/decapping, tumbling media will hardly do anything for the pockets. I usually only clean pistol primer pockets every other loading, it makes zero difference.

[guntherapist]

I clean the pockets every time (habit) with the wire brush attached to my electric RCBS Case Prep. The first time around on a lot-batch of brass I run them through the primer pocket uniformer and flash hole debur. then every reload afterward they get the pocket brush.

[chief38]

I tumble my fired brass in Walnut Shells for about 1 1/2 hours, then reload them. I never pop out the primers before tumbling, and I have never had issues with any excessive dirt in the primer pockets. Works for me.

[silvercn]

I am new to reloading but quickly learned that primers out for tumbling is not fun.
I had to pick that **** out after they were all pretty and shiney.

now I... tumble,
Then deprime,
Then size,
Then charge & seat my bullet.

Check and double check,,, SHOOT!

[tincansailor]

I have a turret and single stage presses. I always use a tool to
clean every primer pocket, rifle or pistol. I also give each brass a
solid whack on the bench (base up), just before adding powder. Sometimes there's a surprise little pile of ****. Not often, but it's
an easy step and who knows what a little bit of media will do to
the load? And if the primer pocket is not down to bare metal, and perhaps a bit oversize, then a dirty "soft" bottom may be just enough
cushion to give you a misfire. Not likely, but it could happen. After all,
you buy a lottery ticket because "somebody has to win, right?" Probably
the same odds so why not be sure?

My dos centavos

[5906fan]

for 'plinking' or 'target' loads I don't clean out soot from the pocket, but do size after cleaning, sometimes I wash brass that comes off the bare ground.
for the 'good stuff' such as personal defense, hunting and 'carry' loads I do check pockets as I load for myself, nephews and wives .357's, 9's and .380's. and my X39 and '06.

[Acorn1754]

As long as the brass isn't that dirty, I save the tumbling till after the rounds are completely loaded. This way the ammo is really shiny and bright, as apposed to brass that was polished and then lubed and loaded and when it comes out doesn't look as good as it use to. But again, I will tumble my brass if it's dirty, as I don't want to abuse my reloading dies.

[427mach1]

I save the tumbling till after the rounds are completely loaded

I hope you are not serious. From Lyman's website,

Important Safety Information:
1. Under no circumstances should live ammo or primed cases be tumbled.

[Acorn1754]

Originally Posted by 427mach1

I hope you are not serious. From Lyman's website,

They have to put out that warning for liability concerns. I know a guy who has been doing this for the last 30 to 40 years without one problem! And I've tumbled hundreds of loaded .223, 40 S&W, 9 mm, etc. The chance of a round being set off is so astronomically low, I know I'm not worried about it.

[427mach1]

I respectfully disagree. You have the manufacturer of powder and tumblers telling you not to do it but you know better than they do? Why take the risk? You could change the powder characteristics or possibly strike a primer and cause it to ignite. Yes, the chances are small but there is still a small chance.

It is the policy of Hodgdon Powder Co. to recommend against ever tumbling or vibrating loaded or reloaded ammunition. Vibration for even short
periods of time may degrade propellants or change their burn characteristics. Vibrating propellants may cause coatings to wear off and edges or
ends to erode.

Dave Campbell
Ballistician/ Customer Service
Hodgdon Powder Company Family of Propellants:
Hodgdon Smokeless Powders, The Brand That’s True
IMR Legendary Powders
Winchester Smokeless Powders, For Loading Professionals
Pyrodex
Triple7
Goex Black Powder
White Hots
Hodgdon - The Gun Powder People
913-362-9455 ext. 117
[email][email protected][/email]

[Acorn1754]

I never thought about it from the powder standpoint and I will have to look into that further. I appreciate the information regarding that.

[Acorn1754]

But now you have me wondering and to be honest, if there's enough interest here, I'm more than willing to test this out actually. Right now I reload a bunch of pistol calibers and a couple of rifle. I use a LOT of Red Dot in pistols (as I shoot almost exclusively lead cast bullets, mostly mild loads) and I use AA2230 for my .223. Now if either of two powders are "vunerable" to breaking down from being tumbled, I'll do 50 rounds not tumbled, 50 rounds tumbled and chrono everyone of them and see if there's any difference. Because now I'm starting to wonder a bit 427Mach1.

[427mach1]

I've read posts/results from individuals that have tried tumbling and chronographing; results go both ways. I seem to recall that some of the extruded (cylindrical) type powders are more suseptible to breaking down than spherical powders. It will be interesting to hear your results!

[Chubbs103]

I have been hanging out on a number of shooting forums for years. Due to the reasonably mature nature of the discussions that prevail on this forum, it has been my number one choice for the last four years or so.

Even though the members here still allow certain discussions to degrade into nonsense, I am still more impressed with this forum than any other.

The discussions taking place here is exactly what makes a shooting/reloading/gun forum so valuable to me. Intelligent, mature discussion of our hobbies. I certainly have a lot to learn, and I am always happy to see people willing to go beyond "my way is better than yours, and I have never killed myself yet so I must be right" types of discussions.

As always, I am happy to be a member here.

Chubbs

[Acorn1754]

Originally Posted by 427mach1

I've read posts/results from individuals that have tried tumbling and chronographing; results go both ways. I seem to recall that some of the extruded (cylindrical) type powders are more suseptible to breaking down than spherical powders. It will be interesting to hear your results!

That makes sense to me. I was thinking that a ball powder like AA2230 probably has no chance of this happening to it. I generally don't like extruded powders (only from the metering standpoint), so it maybe a while before I test it and I'll start a new thread when/if I do.

[Rule3]

I do not understand the "need' to tumble loaded ammo? What purpose does it serve? Yes it looks nice and shiny but who is going to see it if it is loaded in a magazine or in the chamber? The chances of a discharge seems pretty remote but why risk it.

As far as I know it does not serve a function in making it perform better. Actually(FWIW) Richard Lee comments in his manual that there is little need to clean brass and tumbling actually creates more of a health hazard. Washing it is enough.

Don't get me wrong, I like clean brass also but it need not be "Bling" I have loaded thousands of washed only brass which is not as shiney as tumbled and it works just fine and still gets dirty after firing. Now this is range pistol ammo, not high tech bench rest competition where everything matters.

I actually like nickle coated brass as it seems to stay much cleaner.

[Engineer1911]

Yup, I'm a slob, and my wife has told me so. I shoot dirty guns, loaded with dirty brass, that has never had the primer pockets cleaned. Multiple bangs followed by the creation of another acceptable size group of holes. added 12/30 I do have 4 tumblers but if I need 2 boxes of ammo now, the Dillon is ready to go, and the brass is there, but not tumbled, it does get reloaded. I never reload untumbled brass that was picked off the ground. Revolver brass or indoor, carpeted range brass, or 'my' brass may not get tumbled if I need ammo now.

Take a metal ammo can, set it on the metal floor of a vehicle or trailer and drive 28 hours to go varmint hunting. Every expansion joint, pavement crack, or pothole "thumps" the ammo. I have some ammo that has made the trip 3 or 4 times, that's 56 hours round trip. Did I change the powder burn rate? What's the difference between 112 hours of road travel and 2 hours in a tumbler? No significant velocity difference measured by a chronograph, no significant accuracy changes, significant praire dog deaths.

I think there is a disconnect between lawyer logic and reality. I may be wrong and the next shot blows up a rifle, but I'm still going doggin' with the same ammo and rifles.

[RonS]

I deprime, clean the primer pockets with a Lee tool, clean with the TSP/Citric acid solution and dry before they go to the loading blocks. Brass is clean but not really shiny. I'm happy with the results, as my wife describes our house, clean enough to be healthy, messy enough to live with.

[pbcaster]

This gentleman(427mach1) just might, possibly, maybe, perhaps, know what he is talking about. My guess is that he does!

If you choose not to pay attention to his post, you just might have a LARGE PROBLEM down the road.

Do your tumbling/cleaning before loading...not after.

Is tumbling/cleaning after loading worth a risk? I do not think so.

[JohnnieB]

FWIW:
Tumbling after loading removes Alox from the exposed areas of cast/swagged bullets.
Don't ask how I know.

John

Added afterthought, so you don't get the wrong impression. I don't tumble after loading.
I tried it and got some leading when I wasn't before, so I stopped.
Same bullets and primers, same amount and type of powder, same guns.
No lube on exposed lead is only explanation I can think of.

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by Engineer1911

Take a metal ammo can, set it on the metal floor of a vehicle or trailer and drive 28 hours to go varmint hunting. Every expansion joint, pavement crack, or pothole "thumps" the ammo. I have some ammo that has made the trip 3 or 4 times, that's 56 hours round trip. Did I change the powder burn rate? What's the difference between 112 hours of road travel and 2 hours in a tumbler? No significant velocity difference measured by a chronograph, no significant accuracy changes, significant praire dog deaths.

I think this would qualify for DNR Federal Grant Money!!.

"The Correlation of Prairie Dog Deaths in relation to Shaken Powder Disruption in Rifle Cartridges"

Might be a way to pay for your hunting trips.

[pbcaster]

Please consider this:


When you are driving, there are significant portions of the road that do not have bumps, expansion joints, pavement cracks or potholes.

When you put loaded ammo in a vibratory cleaner, it vibrates at a fairly(or perhaps a constant rate)....for as long as it is running. I have one running right now, that vibrates faster than I can count per second.

Do you even remotely think that ammo transported in a vehicle is subjected to that amount of vibration?

[Engineer1911]

I'm always getting in trouble on this branch of the forum.

If clean primer pockets are important to the location of the bullet hole or standard deviation < 500, by all means clean away. Don't happen at my bench!

Blinding bright brass makes you glow with happiness, tuumble, polish and buff away. Straight wall cases run through a carbide sizer die are smoother than anything that came out of a tumbler.

300 rounds of .223 ammo loaded for an AR 15 match were run through the Dillon 550 from resize to seat the bullet, then straight to the tumbler to remove case lube. Powder charge was 0.6 grains more than starting load for 55 grain FMJ bullet. All 300 rounds fired without a problem; no high primers, blown primers, jams, or fail to fire. Had a great time and walked away from the brass.

I believe I will skip the DNR Research Grant Application process. Mr Iggy wants dead PDs, not research.

[gregintenn]

I use a toothpick to knock the media out of the primer pockets if I tumble deprimed brass. It doesn't take that long; and you should be inspecting your cases for problems anyway. As for cleaning primer pockets, I use a Lee primer pocket cleaner. It just takes a quick turn.
Lee Primer Pocket Cleaner - MidwayUSA
I figure that if I'm in too big a hurry to do this, I'll just buy some ammo. As others have stated; a light tap of the bottom of the cartridge on a firm surface ofter leaves a small pile of crud that come from somewhere. I don't see a problem with working with clean components. Clean brass makes case splits easier to see.
After all of that, my fingers are still black after an extended reloading session.

[pbcaster]

Ummmmmm....OK.....whatever. Have fun!

Clean primer pockets are not relative or important to the location of the bullet strike....they are importnt to reliability.

Shiny brass is important to those of us that want our loaded rounds to look like factory ammo, and perform the same way. SD is dependant on consistency.

Straight wall cases that came out of a carbide sizer are more smooth and shiny than anything that came out of a tumbler? EGad, man, you might want to reconsider that one.

I just do not what else to say.

This was in reply to Engineer1911.

[Rule3]

I guess I could see cleaning primer pockets/flash holes for some special purpose rounds. Say competition bench rest shooting or those that load their own self defense round.

But for range shooting targets I have better use of my time than cleaning out 500 or more primer pockets. I would rather do something else.
I did sit down while watching TV one time and cleaned 100 357 Mag brass. The amount of carbon or crud collected in a little plastic cup was negligible.