Is there such a thing? I paged through my Lee, Hornady, Speer, and Hogdon reloading manuals last night and while I saw a listing for 9mm +P and .38 Special +P I didn’t see a +P+ listing for anything. I have been told that SAAMI doesn’t even have a set rule for +P+ either so there is no set rule for it. Does anyone have a reference to what they load and call +P+?

I think you are correct on the lack of +P+ data, for liability and other reasons. The factories may be willing to produce this ammo for specific contracts when they know the guns in which it will be used, but to publish the data is asking for trouble. I recall there was a batch of 110 gr LE ammo made a bunch of years ago that was marked +P+ for such a contract.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

It exists.....but not as any kind of SAAMI standard. When factories load +P+ they are merely saying that it is beyond SAAMI specs (but obviously they don't want a rash of shooter injuries and damaged guns so presumably it is under proof level loads at some point that the factory deems reasonable and safe.) Some Factory +P actually list a pressure level on the package the loads do not exceed. In reloading, very little +P+ data is published.....but there is some. For instance many published 38/44 loads for 38 special are +P+ in modern parlance. 9mm major loads for competition are generally +P+. So are MOST of the published .38 Super "major" loads (A few get there just within SAAMI pressures). Little is available in reloading manuals but magazine articles and internet sources provide some data for such loads. Ballistics programs such as Quickload or rule of thumb interpolation (10% increase in charge weight results in approx 20% increase in pressure) provide some guidance when developing such loads but mostly reloaders are stumbling around in the shadows when loading such rounds (And in my opinion usually working at something better left alone.)

I do not know why they even have such loads. In the overall scheme of things does it really matter? No powder company or Manual is going to publish it.

Even if used in LEO ammo, is it going to knock down the bad guy better than a +P or regular non plus round?

How much extra can you eek out of a round? If you need (not the OP) a +P+ then get a bigger round.

Most +P rounds are pretty much just the Max listed load of a regular round so I supposed add 10% to that and it's probably +P+. Not recommending it.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I have some boxes of Speer GoldDots that are LE only marked and they have a sticker on the box saying "WARNING FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT USE ONLY MAXIMUM AVERAGE PRESSURE OF 40,000 CUP IS 22% HIGHER THAN ANSI/SAAMI STANDARDS"

This is the only +P+ I have seen that states the pressure the ammo is loaded to on the box.

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Depends on which "they" loads it.
There was some European +P+ 9mm ammo going around a few years ago that was leaving pistol parts scattered all over. It was for H&K sub-machine guns only, but of course there is always somebody who ignores any warning.

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Science plus Art

I have seen a few 640's that have the engraving of +P+ inside them. So Smith must think something of it. Unless they were just .357's for people who could only carry .38 Specials.

Pretty astute final sentence. .......but in truth the big loading companies did have some standard(s) for.38 spl +P+. Some Winchester LE loads were marked 22.5kCUP. Others have spoken(not published by manufacturer)about a 25kCUP ceiling while yet others speak of the old 38/44 loads and referenced "under 30k CUP". All of these are of course under .357 mag pressure levels even in the .357's current gelded form.