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  #1  
Old 04-04-2011, 03:54 PM
David Sinko David Sinko is offline
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Default Speer .357" 146 gr. JHP

I just acquired a box of Speer .357" 146 gr. JHP. It's an odd looking bullet in that it appears to be a swaged lead SWCHP bullet seated into a very long 3/4 length gas check. This "gas check" ends right where there would be a crimping groove on an ordinary cast or swaged bullet. I did a quick check of the Speer website and they do not list such a thing. It looks like it could be a decent candidate for a defense or field use. Has anybody ever seen or used this bullet?

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Old 04-04-2011, 03:58 PM
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YES I STILL HAVE SOME I LOAD BUT THEY HAVE BEEN DISCONTINUED, WHY I DON'T KNOW BECAUSE IT IS A GOOD BULLET, YOU CRIMP RIGHT WHERE THE JACKET MEETS THE LEAD. THEY ARE CALL HALF JACKETED BULLETS.
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Old 04-04-2011, 04:34 PM
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I think they had a pretty good reputation for accuracy. There was also a 160gr. without the hollowpoint.
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Old 04-04-2011, 05:16 PM
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I shot quite a few of them, they were popular back in the 70s.....not sure when they were discontinued. Expansion was iffy with them, but they were accurate enough.
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Old 04-04-2011, 05:39 PM
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I also found them to be very accurate. I shot quite a lot of those bullets using Unique.

I just found loading data for that bullet in my Speer Loading Manual #13. It's odd because they show that bullet in the .38+P section, but there is no mention of that bullet in the .357 section. I do remember that bullet being listed in the .357 section, way back in the Speer #3 manual. (I guess I'm dating myself here.)

Special note - the Speer manual does contain a note the reads "Note: NEVER (in bold letters) load this bullet with charges lighter than shown here.
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Old 04-04-2011, 06:41 PM
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Sent you a PM with some links.
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Old 04-04-2011, 07:06 PM
David Sinko David Sinko is offline
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This is very interesting. I'd expect a swaged hollowpoint bullet to expand at .38 Special velocities, or at least at the 1000 FPS I hope to achieve in my 2" Model 64 with modern powders. On the other hand I'd expect real .357 Magnum velocities to tear this bullet apart.

What is the reason for advising to NEVER use less powder? Is it possible that the bullet can stick in the bore, and the inertia causes the swaged core to exit the barrel, leaving the half jacket stuck in the bore? You'd have a hole in the target and a bore obstruction at the same time. Is that possible?

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Old 04-04-2011, 09:12 PM
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From my Speer manual #10
" The 146 gr. HP and 160 gr. SP straight-sided jacketed bullets may separate core from jacket at low velocities, with the possibility of the jacket remaining in the barrel. The lighter charge for each powder should be considered MINIMUM."
I have used both the 146 gr. .357 and 225 gr. .44 bullets and really liked them. To bad they are no longer made.
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Old 04-04-2011, 09:18 PM
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Seperation of the jacket and core is the reason why they caution to not reduce loads. It is also why their newer manuals don't have data for .38 spl. loads with heavier jacketed bullets since they feel the velocities are too low with them.

No. 12 states that you can use the data for their 140 grain bullet in the .357 mag. with the 146 gr. SWC-HP bullet with a 1 grain reduction from maximum charges.

It should work with a 2" 64 with the listed .38 +P data very nicely. I liked this bullet and their similar styles for the .41 and .44 magnums and it's too bad they discontinued them. The 200 gr. SWC-HP was my favorite commercial .41 magnum bullet.
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Old 04-04-2011, 10:34 PM
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Jacket separation was the main reason the half jacket bullet was dropped,evidently some reloaders couldn't read the manual and it became a liability.

I wish I had knew they were going to drop it or I would have bought all I could get my hands on at the time. It was one of the best bullets I have ever shot out of my Ruger SA BH.

I did manage to get about a half box from a friend at a gun shop not long ago that he found in some stuff he bought at an estate sale. Even better than finding the bullets was getting them free.
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  #11  
Old 04-04-2011, 11:19 PM
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Speer #5 (1961) doesn't show the 146 gr half jacket nor the 160 gr half jacket. BBHFarm Gallery :: Speer #5, Speer Inc, 1961 Speer #7 is the first mention of either of those bullets, which is what I used to load them from. BBHFarm Gallery :: Speer #7, Speer Inc, 1968
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Old 04-05-2011, 12:33 AM
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I did not know those where no longer made, I loaded up some of those in the mid 1980's with a stiff load of Win 296 they are very accurate out of my model 27. I think the load I used was out of the spear #10 or 11 manual.

Good luck
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  #13  
Old 04-05-2011, 10:17 PM
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What happend to these bullets, .41 and .44 cal as well, the tooling Speer used to make these bullets was very old. Well it all started to break down and it became too expensive to fix and maintain this machinery, so Speer decided to just drop the line.

They were great bullets and I've used a lot of them. I wished I would have bought a bunch while I could.
They were available the last time two or three years ago.

They were designed for magnum or higher velocity loads and what has been correctly said, they can separate at low velocities.. 800 fps or less.

Also these bullets had a little more bearing surface, so they will generate a little more pressure than their newer counterparts.

If you need some specific data for that bullet, PM me and I'll try and help you out.
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Old 04-10-2011, 07:08 AM
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I used them for years along with the 160 gn half jacketed counter part. They were very accurate in my guns, but more often than not,after checking different expansion mediums they seem to resemble a wad cutter bullet when recovered with little expansion. This is with .357 mag velocities.
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  #15  
Old 12-03-2011, 12:08 AM
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Found this thread tonight after visiting a pawn shop & buying some Speer 160 grain half-jacketed SP bulllets: 200 bullets for $10.

Good info from the experienced. I'm using Bullseye and Unique currently. Any practical advice not mentioned previously is welcome.
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  #16  
Old 12-03-2011, 01:01 AM
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In 1968, I used 10.0 gr of AL-8 with the 146 gr bullet. They didn't expand out of a 2" Chief's Special. At least not on an armadillo at close range.

I bought what Graf's had on clearance, when I was there in 2006, for $6.99/box. Still have a box and a half left.
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  #17  
Old 12-03-2011, 10:13 AM
David Sinko David Sinko is offline
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In the interim I loaded up some of these for my Model 64 snub. I experienced sticky extraction and flattened primers way before I do when using plain cast bullets. I think I was using SR4756. I'll load the rest in .357 Magnum; I did not like what I experienced in .38 Special.

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  #18  
Old 12-03-2011, 05:42 PM
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Guys,
FWIW, the Speer "Semi-Jacketed" (their wording) bullets were introduced in early '61 as "Half Jacket" (again, their wording). Several months later the ad " announces advanced pistol bullet design" with the 3/4 jacket.

Loading data was first in the #6 Manual (2/64).

An interesting sidelight is that although there was no data for them in #5, the cover clearly shows one!

I found them very accurate, particularly in a .357 Martini.

Good shooting.
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  #19  
Old 12-03-2011, 06:23 PM
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Do you mean like this?


The loading data also includes pressure in 1961.
BBHFarm Gallery :: Speer #5, Speer Inc, 1961 :: aab

It wasn't until 1970 that Speer came up with a way to test for pressure in a revolver, but they clearly used a pressure barrel much earlier.

The data in Speer #5 is formatted so the half jackets (pages 276-279) are listed after cast .44 Mags (pages 266-267). I may have missed that previously. I don't have that manual, just images someone sent me.
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  #20  
Old 12-03-2011, 06:45 PM
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This is a good thread.

I have been stockpiling these bullets in all calibers for some time. I have never used them on game but suspected the soft lead core might upset well with magnum velocities although one poster here says not so in his case with the .357 types as fired in certain types of media.

However, if I remember correctly they expanded well when fired into soft, sifted sand in one gallon jugs. But EVERYTHING expanded when shot into that medium if shot fast enough.

The only version I have been unable to find is the .44 Magnum 225 grain hollowpoints and the .41 Magnum 200 grain hollowpoints.
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  #21  
Old 12-03-2011, 07:18 PM
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Paul,
Good eye- missed the jacketed data out of order!
I thought it odd that #5 was printed in October when the bullets had been around for a year.

Good shooting.
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  #22  
Old 12-03-2011, 07:28 PM
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I liked those bullets' design quite a bit. I shot an awful lot of the 240 grain softpoints in .44, both in warm .44 Special and .44 Magnum handloads.

For a while, I carried the W-W 145 grain Silvertip as a duty round. I worked up loads with both -2400 and W-296 with the Speer 146 grain bullets that duplicated the Winchester load's velocity, as a practice round.

David: It is normal for jacketed bullets to develop higher pressures at the same velocities as lead bullets, or for a lead bullet load to become too hot pressure-wise when the same data is used with a jacketed bullet substituted for the lead one. If you change bullets, even of the same weight, you need to work up your loads again.
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  #23  
Old 12-03-2011, 07:32 PM
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Back in the day, that was the duty load for my Departmant in .38 Plus P. I believe it was called a "Pentapoint".
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Old 12-03-2011, 07:41 PM
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The Corbin bullet swaging site offers much information on this type of bullet. I don't have the money for Corbin, and regret passing up on a might-mite (sp) years ago, but much to be learned there.
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  #25  
Old 01-07-2012, 09:16 PM
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The other day I stopped by a gun store I haven't visited in years and I found 50 of these bullets loaded into .357 Magnum brass. They were obviously handloads; the shop owner agreed that nobody will want to pay for somebody else's handloads so he just gave them to me. At home I looked closely and could see the loading data written on a label on the box. It said 9.2 grs. of Herco. I pulled about half of them and weighed the powder charges. My RCBS 5-0-2 scale tells me they're all at least 10.5 grs.!

And I just found my old "The Complete Reloading Manual for the .357 Rem. Magnum." The copyright date is 1993 and this bullet is in the Speer section. Lately I've had a renewed interest in the .357 Magnum, due to the fact that my 627 is such an outstanding performer. Right now I'm shooting this bullet at about 1200 FPS out of my 4" barrel, and according to the load data I should be able to get another 150 or so FPS with 2400 powder. As others have reported, accuracy is excellent. With 70 new bullets and 50 pulled bullets for load development, I think I'm in pretty good shape here.

Dave Sinko
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  #26  
Old 01-07-2012, 10:22 PM
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Let her rip Dave and then tell us about it!
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Old 01-08-2012, 11:18 PM
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I too liked this bullet and still have a couple boxes loaded with AA-5 and H-110. Too bad its history now.
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Old 01-09-2012, 04:41 PM
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I really liked the Speer "3/4" jacketed hollow point bullets in both the .357 & .41 magnums. They were very accurate. I especially like the 200 grain .41 magnum bullet. I wish I could find some more but my stash is about gone and I don't know where I'll go next, probably look to Hornady XTP's. James
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:18 AM
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I picked up a box of the 146gr. bullets a while back, but haven't loaded them yet. They are in my Speer #9 book also. I'll have to get going on them. Good thread.
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Old 01-12-2012, 01:10 PM
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Back in 2003 I was on a western motorcycle ride and stopped at the Speer factory for a visit with long time friend Alan Jones who was then the editor of the Speer Reloading Manual. He was working on #13 which was his last before he retired.

Alan gave me a tour of the factory and when the discussion came to .41 bullets I told him how much I liked the 200 grain 3/4 jacket HP and I knew a lot of shooters would would love to have the same bullet in .45. As was stated above, Alan told me that the machine was on borrowed time as it was the only machine that ever made this line of bullets, the .357/146&160, .41/200&220 and the .44/225/240. He said once it broke down for good the line would be gone....and so it was just a few years later.

The reason these bullets don't expand very much is because of the hard alloy used in the core and the thick cup used as the jacket. These are basically jacketed Keith bullets that cut holes like a wadcutter in paper targets just like Keiths do. The nose, either the soft point or the hollow point "melts" off and what is left looks like a little ashcan that really penetrates.

This is a 200 .41 that was running about 1350 fps. It went through 6 gallon jugs of water, one 3/4" piece of marine plywood and stuck into the face of the second board. In comparison a 210 Gold Dot HP only made the second/third jug of water....





There were run at 950-1250-1400 fps




Found two boxes of 146s and four boxes of 160s in my bullet stash last week. Loaded them up with 11.0 grains of SR4756, they crack...and very accurate. Only have one box of .44/225s left but still have 11 boxes of the .41/220s... Those are getting run through a Freedom Arms 97...

Last year I contacted Corbin about having dies made up to duplicate the bullet and was told no problem...just send us a few bullets to make the die...

In the #13 or#14 Manual there is a picture of a big mountain lion taken with one of .41/200s...

Bob
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Old 01-12-2012, 03:28 PM
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Superman thank you for the info on the speer jacketed soft points. I found about 130 bullets of 160 grain jsp in my reloading supply and wondered why thay were no longer listed. Going to pick up my reloading equipment from my son sunday and get started.
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Old 06-29-2018, 07:42 PM
Jerry buck Jerry buck is offline
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Anyone interested in these bullets to reload feel free to call me 360-463-2602
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  #33  
Old 06-30-2018, 12:00 PM
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The 146 and 160 from Speer were very accurate in my revolvers.

Just one note of caution.
Never try to pull a bullet, once seated and crimped. Just shoot it.

On pulling with an impact hammer, the lead will exit the copper....
leaving you with an even bigger problem. I ended up tossing the whole thing.
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Old 06-30-2018, 12:13 PM
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...I still miss these bullets...

Have some .41s and .357s left and then that will be it...

Bob
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