Well, I did it. Our local pusher has a sale on and I have gone a tad overboard with firearms purchases! Don't worry, the kids will still be fed!

My latest addition is a Sig P250. It came with two barrels, 40S&W and 357Sig, 3 magazines and all for $429!

Gotta get dies for the Sig cartridge yet but it looks looked this might be kinda fun!

Anyone else load for this cartridge?

Yes. It's not a lot of fun. Be sure to get a Wilson headspace gage.

You can make perfectly acceptable .357 SIG ammo without too much bother, but I guess I am just old fashioned. I still prefer my .38 Supers. Maybe if I had a .357 barrel for a 1911 I would like the round a bit more. A 9x23 would probably be a better choice than either, but I am a Super .38 shooter from way back when.

There was a thread not long ago on it. I thought I posted it but I just searched and searched and can not find it??

I also was thinking of trying it. Buy a barrel for my 40 cal Sig and go from there. I will be interested in how you find it to be.

Keep us posted on your progress.

I really wanted to load the 5.7 x 28 but that seems to be a bit more complex. That (and the price of even a used gun) has kept me from trying it.

__________________
Still Running Against the Wind

Skip,

I've done it successfully....mainly because the ammo was so expensive. I have a Colt .40 Auto(they refuse to call it S&W) and bought an Ed. Brown .357 SIG barrel for it.

The only notable trick is finding the right bullet. The SIG is really a 9mm so bullets should be a piece of cake....right? Wrong, the SIG needs a bullet with a short ogive relative to its length. Speer makes a bullet specifically for the SIG round.

Have fun!

__________________
Bob.
SWCA 1821

I've often wanted to try this cartridge, the idea behind it is intriguing. I have heard that getting the cases right is the biggest problem. Good luck!

That hasn't been my experience. Set up your die to headspace on the shoulder and check it in the chamber.

You must avoid setback. That is the key. Neck tension must be preserved, so use a minimum of flare. In retrospect, I guess that falls under "getting the cases right".

I like Redding dies for the 357 SIG, and use a Redding taper crimp die as well. A carbide .40 S&W sizer, followed by a trip thru the 357 SIG die will save you having to lube cases.

Now that was a classic. (Reminds me of something I might write. )

S&WIowegan's comment about bullets is a good one. The .357 SIG is fussy about bullets. There are several companies making SIG-profile bullets these days. Now less of a problem than it once was, but still requires proper selection. Good point.

Yep SC, been loading it now for maybe 3yrs, lots of diff powders & bullets. Once you get the dies setup right, it's pretty much like anything else. It is VERY bullet specific though, so choose TC shaped solids or HP, lead, plated or jacketed. My current fav powder is Longshot. I sue Dillon carbide dies, do not buy RCBS, they have headspace wrong. Good neck tension beats any type of crimp, but a nice TC is useful. Yes you can shoot lead bullets in the 357sig. BTW, when are wr going to get those 4006/1006 bbls?

In the near past when ammo was SCARCE the only caliber on the shelves was .357 Sig. The one handgun caliber I did not have. I would have used this excuse to purchased another handgun but I was going though the world of Chemo and all my pennies were going for medical.
Didn't the U.S. Border Patrol use this round?

For projectiles, most all truncated cone style 9MM projectiles work just fine.

The long driving band of the Remington Golden Sabre makes a good choice, but only in the lighter weight projectiles. The 102grain GS makes a real screamer out of the 357SIG cartridge,

I have been loading this cartridge about 15 years now. One of the things that I find invaluable is a Lee Factory Crimp Die. This is a collet style crimp, not a taper crimp. It makes a much wider range of projectile usable in the 357SIG cartridge.

I have loaded several lightweight projectiles that were intended for the 380ACP. These include an 88 grain JHP, 90 grain JHP and 95 grain FMJ. I can get all three of these moving at over 1700 FPS. These shoot REALLY flat. The Lee FCD adds enough tension to the short projectiles to prevent setback.

dnater is right on, using the 40 carbide die first make life very easy. I use a 5 station progressive.

Station one decaps and sizes with the 40 carbide die.
Station two primes and sizes with the 357 die.
Station three flares and drops powder.
Station four seats and removes the flare.
Station five crimps with the FCD.

357Sig Headspacing has to be set to be flush to slightly below the barrel hood, 0.000" to <0.002" below the hood.

The other most critical thing is the bullet tension in the case neck, some 9mm/0.355" bullets with long olgives that when seated to proper depth will not allow it to work with the 357Sig.

I shoot the 357Sig from a conversion barrel G-29 3.78" barrel and soon from a S&W 1006 when the barrel is finished.

Attached Images

IMG_0319.jpg (45.5 KB, 33 views)

I'm doing the opposite path. I bought the brass, then the TC bullet mold, then the Lee dies to include the bottle neck die, and maybe I should get around to finding a gun to actually make the ammo for it...

I've been shooting 357sig for a few years now from a Glock & now a M&P Pro. The $30 per 50 rounds really does limit range time for me. I like to carry the round in the winter when I feel the added penetration comes in handy. I've been putting off reloading the round because of the horror stories I've read on getting it right. OK, I've put off reloading any round, I guess it's classic procrastination more than anything else. I guess it's time to bite the bullet as they say. I'll look into it tomorrow, or the next day, or the day after that...

You are buying your ammo at the WRONG place. Stay away from the Mom and Pop stores and go look on the Internet.

Georgia Arms has the Speer frangible for $300 a case. If you buy two cases shipping is free. That is $15 per box. Their own "Canned Head" in FMJ is $310 per 1000.

Sportsman's is selling the Federal frangible on GB. The auctions end around $250-$270 per case shipped. This is out of date ammo, but I have gone through a few thousand and had no issues. That is $12.50+ per box so if some of the lead free primers fail to ignite I am not going to sweat it.

There's really no mystery to loading the 357 Sig round. I've loaded approximately 14,000 rounds of it to date. Once your dies are set up properly (as with any caliber), the proper bullet selected and the powder of choice purchased, then you just proceed to load. I use a combination of Dillon Carbide (don't waste your money) and Redding dies to load 357 Sig.

For bullets, I prefer the Berry's 124 gr. Flat Point for practice and the Speer 357 Sig 124 gr. Gold Dot for serious work. Avoid any bullet with the NATO profile and the heavier bullets in the Remington Golden Saber line. As for powder, Accurate Arms #9 fills the case and prevents bullet setback. Power Pistol will give higher velocity, but don't use it with the plated bullets, or you'll have bullets that tumble and hit the right hand upright of your chronograph screen at approximately 1,420 fps.............

Hope this helps.

Fred

I've been reloading this round since 1995. I started with a 2 die RCBS set, as nothing else was available. Now I use a Dillon 550 and the Dillon TC sizing die. I roll lube about one case in 50 as I go. next is the Dillon powder measure and flare die. I then use the RCBS seating die and finally the Lee FCD to finish. Decapping and sizing in a 40 TC die is probably a good idea also. I've had good luck with BlueDot, Herco, #7, and any of the proper bullets previously mentioned. BTW, Lipsey's is closing out 357 M&P's at a super price, both full sizs and compacts. If I did'nt already have one, I get one. Your loacal dealer can check it out. Bob!!

$569 is a good price for these??? That seems pretty average...

Smitty...you plan on casting for it too? What boolit? Just curious.

__________________
Have .44, will travel

I cast two different bullets for use with 357Sig and 9x25Dillon, The LEE 122 gr TC and the 125 gr Lyman Devastator HP both have worked well.

Everytime I read that the sig is hard to reload for I just shake my head. Obviously those that write this did not try very hard. I have loaded and fired over 10,000 rounds of 357 sig with no problems once I worked it out. The keys are simple.
1) Carbide dies. I use dilon's
2) Minimum flare
3) the right bullet. I use Rem 115 JHP's or 124 JHP's in general. Occasionally I do 88 grn JhP's for fun.
4) The right powder. I only use AA9 powder to support the bullet and I just ignore setback.
5) don't oversize the case.

I find the sig is easy to load as the rules force things to be simple. So few decisions and the sig feeds through the dies easily.

__________________
SWCA 1646

Pete,
I'm with you on the Dillon carbide dies, bro. As soon as I get an extra $130, those are the ones I will get!

Until then, I may do as others have suggested though, and use the 40S&W die I already have with some cheap Lee steel dies for $30. I will have to wait and see though.

I would imagine that AA#9 pretty much fills that little case. I did that once with some MILSURP powder, loaded like H110, in the 45ACP. Nothing spectacular in performance though. One thing for sure, supported or unsupported, there is NO WAY to get enough slow powder in a case that size to have it blow up on you. Not unless you stick a bullet first.


Since I have the Thompson, maybe that is what I need for those, um, shall we say, experimental rounds!

The jury is still out on the carbide dies though. I will have to wait and see.

Okay, I went to the pusher today and got Lee STEEL dies. I am going to use the 40S&W carbide die to resize as others have mentioned. I didn't have to this time as I also picked up 100 Starline brass, NEW! Can you believe it? I must be sick!

I also picked up some inexpensive plated bullets. They are 125gr RN and made for the 9mm. The OAL is long @ 1.180" but, they chamber in my gun and fit in the magazines. Hopefully, that means that there is a bit less in the case too.

The powder I chose for this go around was AA#5 and the minimum load of 8.3gr. Usually, I head for the middle of the data, since this is the first excursion into this little fireball, I thought I would take my own advice and start low and work up! Not to mention that this is a new firearm too. It is the Sig P250 mentioned above. I am anxious to test these little rounds!

Here is what they look like! (p.s. I made these on the Lee Classic Cast Turret Press and it took me about an hour to make the 100 of them.)

They look like good rounds. The pressures for the .357 SIG are manageable because the bullets are light compared to the .40 S&W. Looks like you used jacketed bullets which is good since plated won't be able to stand the SIG velocities.

I used a lot of old AA No. 5 in the early 90s to get high velocities in the .40 with 135 gr. Nosler JHPs. Worked great with no blowouts but #5 has changed factories so many times it's not the same.

Let us know how they shoot.

__________________
Bob.
SWCA 1821

Bob,

These are plated BUT, I chose a load that will bring them into the 1100fps area. They will handle that just fine. I have pushed other plated bullets faster than that without too much problem.

As a general statement, no, the lighter bullets have little to do with pressures in either. The smaller dia bullet of the 357sig raises pressures quickly. So loading a 125gr 357sig is roughly equiv to loading a 155gr bullet in the 40, roughly. In either, AA#5 would not be my choice for safe top end loads.

Here is a novel idea! Pick the powder for the load and not the other way around!

I am building my first 357Sig rounds. They are going to be shot in a compact firearm.

HERE IS A HINT! I DIDN'T WANT TOP END LOADS FOR MY FIRST GO 'ROUND! for crying out loud!

I've been loading for this round for years and have had the best results as far as accuracy and velocity with Power Pistol powder. That stuff will easily get a 125 gr. bullet to 1400 fps with no pressure signs and excellent accuracy. The downside is muzzle flash. The fireball that powder generates can be truly spectacular, especially at night. Generally, though, I've found it to be a fairly easy round to load for as long as you follow the rules, watch the neck tension and use the proper bullets. Speer's 125 gr. Gold Dot is really good if you want a high-end bullet for field use.

Well,
I was pleasantly surprised today. Took the Sig to the range with those first 100 rounds and I want to report that there were NO FTF or FTF! Pretty impressive for a new out of the box firearm for under $450!

Now, the load was not the most accurate load I have ever developed and, I wasn't after that at this time either, I wanted function and familiarization rounds. That is just what I got too.

Shot a couple of videos of our 18 year old daughter and myself squaring off on a dueling tree and trying to hit as many as fast as we could. Probably should have slowed down a bit!

Here we are though: (Click on each to watch.)
Her-

Me-



They were snappy and would have produced a nice fireball after dark!

Now, onto hotter and lighter.

One thing I was wondering and I need to work on, POI/POA differences with the 40S&W and the 357Sig with lighter and heavier bullets. These hit extremely high. I am going to look for a 100gr TCFP or something in that area and give them a whirl. Then try some 165gr jacketed in the 40S&W to see how they compare.

I can tell you this, I would NOT be afraid to carry this firearm for SD. Night sights and the accuracy that I got from these rounds is certainly combat acceptable.

Stay tuned for more on this caliber. I will let all y'all know how the reloading process goes with these new Starline cases.

It almost wasn't fun shooting it from one aspect though, picking up brass. I am so tight that those brand new brass had my full attention! I think I did get them all. I told the daughter to remember the tarp, we both forgot!

It was fun being out shooting with her though. She is going to be going to college this fall. My shootin' bud!

Pretty amazing how those rounds went right through the steel and hit the dirt!! I thought you said those rounds weren't HOT.

__________________
Bob.
SWCA 1821

We hit a few of the paddles. If you look close you can see one or two flip around. With these loads, it was shooting about 8" high. First time out, that made it a bit difficult to remember.

Our agency carries the Sig 229 357,
My friend used to be the LE rep for Speer and he told me to load 7.0 of Bullsey.
My load was 6.7 of Bullsey with the Rainer 124 flat point 9mm bullet. Dead on accurate and any one who shot that load loved it.

Pete,
I have no doubt that you used 7.0gr of some powder in your loads, I just cannot find anything like that for Bullseye with that weight of bullet!

I can find a 90gr XTP and a 100gr XTP (stops @ 7.0gr) but nothing for the heavier bullet.

Personally, I am not going to ever use that fast of a burning powder in any 357Sig load that I build UNLESS I am trying to get something subsonic or with no muzzle flash. Maybe a 125gr LFP and about 4 or 5gr maximum. Still, my next venture is into the AA#7-AA#9 with truly jacketed bullets. Probably, 124gr XTP or something of that like.

Thanks for the tip though!

Once again pleasantly surprised at my new P250. I am going to get a few change kits for this thing!

Maybe a full size 357Sig!

At any rate, I loaded up some 125gr Hornaday XTP HP bullets over a maximum load of AA#9 and drug the wife to the range with me.

We had some fun, let me tell you!

This is a compact model and the wife is a tad recoil sensitive so I thought we would have a bit of a time getting her to shoot it much. NOT SO!

I also got some new glasses. They have trifocals on the upper part of the lens. That just happens to be the part of it that I look through to get my site picture. Man, did that really help! Wowzers!

Here is a picture of 10 shots @ 15 yards from the same kind of support that the wife was using in the later pictures.



Not too shabby!

The AA#9 really performed well over the chronograph too. Take a look at these numbers:
Low 1271fps
High 1320fps
Avg 1292fps
ES 49.79fps
SD 17.57fps

If the barrel was a tad longer, those numbers would get better fast.

At any rate, here is a video of the wife shooting it. Skirt and flip flops! Gotta love them women! =)
(Click on picture to view video)

124gr TMJ 7.0 gr Bullseye 1,325 fps 1.195" Fed 100 Alliant
Suggested starting load: 6.3 gr

Pressure: 37,000

This is from the Alliant loading manuel
Like I said I got this load also from the Speer rep who also reloads. at 6.7 very accurate, one of my Officers uses this load all the time and no presure signs he even thanks me all the time for that load.

Pete,

I am not doubting you but there are some inconsistencies that need to be discussed about that load.
Here is a copy of ALL of the 357Sig data directly from the CURRENT Alliant Reloader's Guide.

357 SIG
125 gr Speer GDHP Unique CCI 500 Speer 1.135" 8.0 1344
125 gr Speer GDHP Herco CCI 500 Speer 1.135" 8.1 1277
125 gr Speer GDHP Blue Dot CCI 500 Speer 1.135" 11.0C 1416
147 gr Speer GDHP Unique CCI 500 Speer 1.135" 6.6 1101
147 gr Speer GDHP Power Pistol CCI 500 Speer 1.135" 7.5 1152
147 gr Speer GDHP Blue Dot CCI 500 Speer 1.135" 8.8 1218

Notice two things. #1: The OAL of the cartridge. There is no way that 1.195" is going to work in my Sig. Maximum for the cartridge is around 1.140". I did load some that were 1.180" in mine but that was because of the bullet profile and since my firearm is a "dual caliber" I think the mags are made different.

#2: There is not even ONE load for this caliber and Bullseye powder period! So, again, the Speer rep may have a good load but I just cannot find it in their current manual.

I will check the other ones I have and see what I can see though.

Just want to be sure about loads before we post them on the web, even if someone has used them for years and years.

I stand corrected! Or sit as the case may be!

The Lee second edition does have a load for a generic 124gr Jacketed bullet and the load you mention with Bullseye. 7.0gr of Bullseye is the maximum while the OAL is a bit different than what you posted @ 1/120". Sorry, that part threw me the second time!

Here is something that we all need to think about when we deal with these new high pressure handgun loads. Where does the pressure develop most and when? I will try the load of Bullseye in my Sig but wouldn't even THINK about using it in a Glock. I am NOT Glock bashing, I really like them and have a bunch BUT, because of their design, and I am speaking of the infamous unsupported chamber issue, I am not going to use ANY fast burning powders in them, period.

The pressure spike goes straight up on them. I want something that is much more "rounded" in its pressure curve for those firearms.

Again, I am NOT bashing, remember, the Browning High Power has the same problem, I won't use those fast powders in one of them ever again either!

So, while I am not sure where Lee got the data, I assume from Alliant (which is under the umbrella of the same parent company, STK, as Speer), it does match your data other than the OAL. Thanks for the information.