Power Pistol VS 2400 in 327 Fed Magnum++UPDATED++

Rule3

Rule3

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I just picked up a 632 Pro in 327 Fed Mag 6 shot ( Same as a 640 except the caliber) This gun is awesome! Factory 115 gr GDHP 1380 FPS and almost 500 ft lbs energy.

Anyway, here is the load data from Speer.

http://www.speer-bullets.com/pdf/327_Federal_Magnum_GDHP_115gr_3988_DataFile.pdf

I have been testing various lead bullets and the 85 gr XTP with different powders.

These two I found interesting and can not explain. I can not see where the different bullet would make that much difference? I will have to test with the exact same bullets.

With a 115 gr LRNFP and 6.0 grs Power Pistol, regular primer.
Avg= 1132 fps
ES 73
SD 26

With a 113 gr LRNFP gas checked (same shape size only GC)
loaded with 10.0 grs and a small rifle primer.

Avg 1087 fps
ES 46
SD 17

2400 is listed as a Magnum powder, Power Pistol is not and I can get a lot more zip with almost half the powder. The PP is great in the 9mm and 40 SW also.

I have some other data that was published but I will not list that here as they pushed the 327 Mag to amazing velocities out of a heavier Ruger and Freedom Arms.

This SW snub is scary accurate, shooting it at 10 yards(2-3" groups) without the recoil and blast of a 357 and one extra round.
 
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First, you're testing with different bullets and different primers. How do you expect a comparison to be made? Second, the difference in charge between two different powders (i.e., "a lot more zip with almost half the powder") is completely irrelevant when the powders have drastically different burn rates.
 
Yes, I mentioned that as far as the bullets. I was anticipating the 2400 (being a slower powder)would be the faster more "magnum" like round. I also said I need to test the same bullets.

That is why I compared two all together different loads. I tested a few other powders and bullet weights that I did not post and the PP so far seems to be the best bang for the buck.

It's not irrelevant if I can get better performance using a lot less powder.
 
Two things.

#1: Your Power Pistol load is .9gr away from the maximum charge weight AND would be a higher pressure, and higher in its pressure curve, making it more efficient. While the 2400 load is only .1gr more in spread, it works much, much, better at the upper levels of its pressure curve. There is a bit more velocity increase, between the two spreads. Not much though. I think it is on the other end of the performance were 2400 would start to show you more of what you are looking for. Personally, I would use a much slower powder like H110/W296.

Just me though.

#2: No matter what you do, you are going to run out of room for powder real quick. The lower fill in this one instance may be better for this caliber. You will have to check accuracy. If you load this again, run full power loads of each and see what you get. You know that if you want a reduced load to use the faster powder. The fact you get a higher velocity than Speer says you will get with their bullet and less with 2400 is a puzzle BUT, this is part of the whole handloading fun thing! ;)

Run them up to the maximum if you have no pressure signs now, run the test again and let us know what is going on. Then, spend some of that moldy money of yours and get some H110/W296 (either one because they are the exact same powder, which you already know! ;) ), run some full power loads and see how they perform.
 
Hodgdon's online reloading center has lots of good data on this cartridge. Look at the pressures of max loads for various powders and it will tell you a lot about the way this cartridge performs. Also note that Hodgdon included H110/W296 data for only one of the bullets.
 
p.s. When that grows up it will look like this:

Leftside.jpg


It is a M60 -13 in 38spl. Take a notice as to what reloading manual it is sitting on! ;) Yep, that firearm has tasted THE LOAD.
 
Dragon88 said:
Hodgdon's online reloading center has lots of good data on this cartridge. Look at the pressures of max loads for various powders and it will tell you a lot about the way this cartridge performs. Also note that Hodgdon included H110/W296 data for only one of the bullets.
Click to expand...

What do you think the reason is for only the one H110 load?
 
I think case capacity and light bullets are the issues here. You can't stuff enough slow powder in the case for full effect. On top of that, the powder is under a very light bullet. There's not much to help it build pressure. There were some irregular pressure figures in the data with powders like Lil'Gun that make me think it can be a tricky cartridge to load without good pressure-tested data.

Hodgdon did include H110/W296 data for the heaviest jacketed bulllet they tried, but not for a heavier cast bullet. Speer included the powder in their data with their 115gr bullet. For light bullets, I would probably stick to a mid-range powder.

Just my 2 cents. Not even enough for a cup of coffee.
 
I have all the Hodgdon Data plus all the data Skip sent me as well as reprints of a reloading mag tests. I also have some, as mention that where out of a Ruger and Freedom arms using H110 that I would not go near with this gun. Yes, I have H110. I am working up to that and why I bought the small box of GC 113 gr bullets. Of course the Speer 115 GD's can not be found. I do have some 85 gr XTP's

The 6.0 gr of PP is the low end. I just loaded some with 6.5 and a 115 LFN. All the others I tested were mild compared to the factory loads. The fired brass just fell out, not primer deformation, pretty much regular plinkers.

The Factory Federal 100 gr semi jacket soft point is a wicked little round but easy to follow up a second shot and not the blast of my 640 with full 357's.

You might find this interesting. Freedom Arms is taking the 327 Fed Mag case and necking it down to a 22 caliber!

icon4.gif
Here is the PDF with specs for the 224-32FA. Now that 40 gr is moving!

http://freedomarms.com/224-32fada.pdf


Here is the grown up version. Gemini Customs 640.

DSC02403Medium.jpg
 
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Dragon88 said:
I think case capacity and light bullets are the issues here. You can't stuff enough slow powder in the case for full effect. On top of that, the powder is under a very light bullet. There's not much to help it build pressure. There were some irregular pressure figures in the data with powders like Lil'Gun that make me think it can be a tricky cartridge to load without good pressure-tested data.

Hodgdon did include H110/W296 data for the heaviest jacketed bulllet they tried, but not for a heavier cast bullet. Speer included the powder in their data with their 115gr bullet. For light bullets, I would probably stick to a mid-range powder.

Just my 2 cents. Not even enough for a cup of coffee.
Click to expand...

I agree with your 2 centavos. I am not a 327 officianado so, what is a "heavy" bullet for this caliber? I would be using the heaviest possible.

Did you notice that all of the loads that Rule posted, with the slower powders anyway, are all "C" at maximum? Just not enough case to put enough powder in to make it sing with the light bullets and slow powders.

If someone thinks that this doesn't matter, all they have to do is take a 180gr 44Mag XTP, put in 1gr less than the Hodgdon maximum for H110/W296, use a standard primer and see what you get.

You will get a stuck bullet because the pressure is too low to make the powder work right. If you set that light bullet just a tad long, it is going to even make it worse. So, with the lighter bullets, in smaller cases, in fully supported firearms, run with a bit faster powder.

I would be really interested to find out what the ES and SD numbers are with your H110 loads as well as the 2400 ones. I want to know too how many bullets you are running in your tests.

Run 10 of each at least, if possible. (Hey, I was just kidding about the moldy money thing! ;) )
 
Yup, the "C" compressed charge notation is what got me interested to examine the data more. I'm not up on the 327 either, but based on what I saw a 100gr jacketed bullet or heavier should be a good candidate for trying H110/W296. The 115gr bullet that Speer tested would be my choice if I wanted to develop a serious load.

I did a lot of testing with 180gr XTPs and W296 in 44 mag, trying to get my Redhawk to 2000 fps. I don't think I ever approached a good working pressure. All the extra powder I was adding merely dissipated as noise and blast on the firing line with not much velocity gain.
 
Well I went back to the range and tested a few more rounds to compare like bullets/primers and for Dragon88:);)

115 gr FN hard cast, Wolf small pistol primers, same range, same temp, chrono 10 ft away. All new Fed brass.

For Comparison, Factory Speer 115 GD (only 6 rounds, too expensive)
Avg 1275 fps
ES 38
SD 14

With 6.5 gr Power Pistol

Avg 1170
ES 14
SD 7

With 10.2 gr 2400 (that's what the Lee disc throws)

Avg 1140
ES 32
SD 12

All brass just fell out (no extraction) problems, No funny looking primers.

So it's time to look into some H110 but perhaps HS6 First.

Problem is there is no good data for H110 and lead. I am leery of using the FMJ data from Speer as the lack of neck tension for the lead compared to the Gold Dots what just make a big flash bang and I don't like experimenting with unknowns especially H110.
 
Rule3 said:
Well I went back to the range and tested a few more rounds to compare like bullets/primers and for Dragon88:);)

115 gr FN hard cast, Wolf small pistol primers, same range, same temp, chrono 10 ft away. All new Fed brass.

For Comparison, Factory Speer 115 GD (only 6 rounds, too expensive)
Avg 1275 fps
ES 38
SD 14

With 6.5 gr Power Pistol

Avg 1170
ES 14
SD 7

With 10.2 gr 2400 (that's what the Lee disc throws)

Avg 1140
ES 32
SD 12

All brass just fell out (no extraction) problems, No funny looking primers.

So it's time to look into some H110 but perhaps HS6 First.

Problem is there is no good data for H110 and lead. I am leery of using the FMJ data from Speer as the lack of neck tension for the lead compared to the Gold Dots what just make a big flash bang and I don't like experimenting with unknowns especially H110.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm, I don't think going to a powder as slow as H110 is going to accomplish much. Not quite sure what you are trying to do here - I can't tell from the thread.

There is Longshot, and AA#7 you can try - both are slower than Power Pistol yet faster than 2400. H110 is much, much slower than 2400.

But if you want to play around with H110 in your mouse cartridge - have at it! Post your results.
 
dla said:
Hmmmm, I don't think going to a powder as slow as H110 is going to accomplish much. Not quite sure what you are trying to do here - I can't tell from the thread.

There is Longshot, and AA#7 you can try - both are slower than Power Pistol yet faster than 2400. H110 is much, much slower than 2400.

But if you want to play around with H110 in your mouse cartridge - have at it! Post your results.
Click to expand...

Better check on the ballistics of the 327 Fed Mag, might be a small bullet but not a mouse load at all. More KO than a 9mm or a 38 Special.

around 500 ft lbs of energy out of a snubby
 
I am now confident the .327 Magnum will not fail because Freedom Arms has picked it up. I have said from the beginning it's not going to succeed as a SD round but if someone would chamber it in a good SA revolver it would make a great field round. (much like the 32-20) now all we need is a companion levergun and we're all set.

Now back to the reloads. I have only one thing to say, HS-6!!!

I feel HS-6 would be a great choice of powders especially when loading lead bullets. Longshot was mentioned above and that's probably not a bad choice either but mostly with jacketed bullets. I don't know about this caliber but in other calibers I've found Longshot to be not as accurate with lead bullets as HS-6 is. Looking at the Hodgdon data shows Longshot as being just behind the slower powders but not by much. With an XTP or Gold Dot bullets Longshot might be the way if HS-6 doesn't deliver the wanted velocity although the data shows only 16 fps difference. That is with heavier bullets, with light jacketed bullets HS-6 shows higher velocities than Longshot. With lead bullets I have no doubt HS-6 is the way to go because of the research I've done and probably the best choice overall. (granted it's only speculation on my part because I have not loaded the .327 Mag)
 
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