Measuring Unique...

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jwr0201

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First off, I'm new to reloading. I've gotten all of my dies set and have overall length correct for .38 special LSWC 158 grain loads. I made a few test dummy rounds without primer & powder to get set-up.

I'm frustrated, as I have two things that seem to not be going quite right here.

I set up a Lee Safety Scale and Perfect Powder measure and am getting off measurements on both. It may well may be me, but so far, they work well and were relatively easy to set up.
Here's what I'm getting with Unique powder...
This is using the .5cc dipper since it is a known volume measure that cannot vary to check both the scale and powder measure.
With the scale zero'd out, using the .5cc powder dipper, I get a weight on the scale of 3.75 gr. If my math is correct, I should be getting 4.58 gr.
On the powder measure, I ran 3 hoppers of Unique through per instructions to lubricate. For a setting of .50cc, I am getting a weight on the scale of 3.2 gr. Again, I think the reading should be 4.58 gr.
I feel safe in using the dipper as a benchmark and made several weight tests, so that seems to be a good comparison.
Is it possible that the powder measure throws that light? Or, is there something about measuring Unique that I am not considering? Where am I off?
RR :confused:
 
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Is it possible that the powder measure throws that light?
Click to expand...

Depending on your technique, yes it is. Dippers aren't good standards for checking scales.

Check the scale with a check weight to verify it is set up correctly and accurate, and then use the scale as the standard to calibrate your powder measure. What is important is the weight of powder, not the volume, which varies with batches.

IMHO, you picked a tough powder to learn on if you are trying to get precise repeatable measurements. A dense ball powder is easier.

However, if you can throw moderate Unique loads plus/minus half grain or so, that is plenty good for plinking loads. Under 25yds range, variations in powder only translate to fractions of an inch on target.
 
I can't speak to the measure I 've not used one. Unique can throw inconsistently in allot of measures though.

My experience with the yellow Lee CC dippers is they always measure light with Unique.

You can use an empty case and your scale to make dipper to dispense the charge you want.

You'll have to go through a few iterations of measure the charge and trim case to get to the load you want.
 
This is one reason you need the micro adjust bar for your measure. The Lee disk system ALWAYS measures differently than what it says it will, um, did I say ALWAYS?

If not, I should have! ;)

Here is what I would do and, have done. Forget the volumetric measuring system. Oh, you can use it, just use your scale, as long as you know it is weighing correctly. You can get a set of scale test weights pretty cheap, do it. Once you know your scale is weighing right, you can use it to measure your throws. If you need to move up or down, you can trust your scale. You cannot trust the volumetric system to throw the weight you want. It will throw consistent enough to do what you want, just not where you want. Does that make sense?

Hopefully it does. :D
 
Unique has a good side and a bad side. Versatility is the good side. Weighing accurate charges is the bad side. One reason I do not use max loads with Unique. I always use the low to mid range charges. I never try to go over 4.5 grns in .38's and I try to stay around 3 grns with WC.

If I am loading 50 rds or less I use the Lee dippers, and wiegh about every 10th loaded case. If it is a tenth one way or other I don't care. That is the best I can do by hand. The RCBS Uniflow hopper takes me 20 minutes to get it adjusted right with Unique, not worth the time for plinking rounds. 231 works (meters) better so that is my normal .38 powder.
 
I would use more Unique if the stuff metered better.

What I also find is that I have to go several chambers bigger than listed in Lee's chart to hit a given weight.

All my other powders get very close to the listed weight for a given chamber with Bullseye usually being dead on. But Unique is a problem child.

I've thought about trying Universial since it's supposed to burn very similar but isn't so coarsely grained.
 
There is nothing wrong with using the Lee yellow dippers BUT you need to know exactly what the weight is in that dipper. The Lee scale is accurate but difficult to use and read.

First thing is set it up on a fairly high counter or table so you are looking at it not down on it.. You need to have some check weights or something of a known weight to be sure the scale is zeroed correctly. Then take your dipper, scoop up the powder, run a business card across the top to level and then weigh it. If the weight is within you load (low to high you are good) You can not go by what the chart says it is supposed to be, it is just a estimate.

For a DIY check weight, 1 small pistol primer weighs approximately 3.5 grains. Try one on your scale if it is pretty close then weigh you dipper of powder.

The best thing to do for being safe and accurate is get a different scale with some check weights. Even if you get a cheap electronic, if it has a check weight you can be sure.
 
Just for comparison I just weighed my .5 cc scoop with my batch of Unique and it weighs 4.2 grains.

So assuming your scale is correct, that show the variance in batches of powder, humidity, temp etc.

Soooo, the best thing to do IMHO is get a accurate scale that you can use and read easily.

In reloading, everything is important but knowing you powder weight is number one.
 
Please remember that powder is measured by weight, not volume.
I use a lot of Unique, my powder measures don't do well with it, several brands.
I have pretty much resigned myself to weighing each charge. I do have an electronic scale which makes it much easier. I really like Unique for my .44spl loads.
I don't use it for my .38's though because I shoot so many and want a powder that meters well.
While Unique is an awesome powder, it's not always user friendly.
I continue to use it but I weigh it because I'm on the upper edge of "how much".
If you are shooting many rounds, I'd suggest something that meters well, like 231, Hp 38 or Bullseye.

Good luck and keep us posted, Rick
 
I use both the Lee Safety scale and the Lee Perfect Powder measure for single stage reloading and the Hornady LnL measure for progressive loading and get excellent consistency with Unique. When I first started loading, I compared the dipper in the 45 ACP die set and was also getting about 3.5g from the 0.5cc even though all the Lee data sheets said I should be getting nearly 1 grain more.

Forget about the volume density formulas. The Unique in your bottle does have a uniform density so once you find a setting in your Perfect Powder measure, you should be getting consistent drops. You need a consistent routine because Unique is very fluffy and can be inconsistent if you just crank away with the drops. I do two light taps on the measure on the full up stroke and two on the measure on the full down stroke. I can keep better than 0.1g consistency on my drops with the PPM. The LnL measure gets enough shaking from the entire press that there is no need for tapping.
 
I use an RCBS 1010 scale to set my Lyman 55 powder measure, and weigh every 20th charge in handgun calibers. As long as I'm loading below redline, I get excellent consistency, even with the large flakes of Unique.
In rifle calibers, I weigh each & every charge. hth

Larry
 
Thanks to all who gave replies. Great info and lessons learned for sure. Here's what I get from this discussion...
First and foremost, powder measurement is by weight - not volume. It appears that flake powders like Unique sometimes do not measure well - can be consistent with the right procedure, but are likely to give a light volume measure. Use Check weights on your scales (I have some coming now). After using check weights and balancing the scale, find the weight needed and then adjust the powder volume throw to that weight.
I'm probably going to move to another powder to get started. What's a good choice for 158 gr LSWC?

RR
 
I am paranoid about powder weight accuracy when reloading. I still use a RCBS Rockchucker single stage and have a digital scale. I am 100% confident that I am always getting the right load.

Lee powder measures are good for 2 things, black powder loading and something to dip with and weigh on the scale. I have used dippers for years and DO NOT EVER get the right weight the first try, no matter how many taps or re-dips I make.

A good electronic scale can be purchased for $50-$70 and you can rest assured that you will have the right load every time. These scales are accurate down to 0.1 grains and come with standard weights to keep track of the scale accuracy.
 
Unique is my favorite pistol powder and meters fairly well through my older RCBS Uniflow measure after I spend 20 minutes dialing it in. I have to keep the powder hopper at least 3/4ths full otherwise the charge weights start to drop. I switched to Tite Group for a while, but it causes heavy leading with every single LSWC load I've tried. Back to Unique for cast lead.
 
I hope I am not violating any rules but I am going to essentially
repeat a post from another thread that is appropriate here as well.

You can try any Unique recipe with Universal Clays.
You may need to bracket the load again to find the most
accurate but it's worth it as Universal burns WAY cleaner
than Unique. It also meters more smoothly having much
smaller discs .They are right next to each other on the burn
charts. I like 6 to 7.5 grains in the .44 Spl and Mag.
I am starting to like Universal a lot even though I have quite a
bit of Unique on hand as well.

---
Nemo
 
Nemo288 said:
I hope I am not violating any rules but I am going to essentially
repeat a post from another thread that is appropriate here as well.

You can try any Unique recipe with Universal Clays.
You may need to bracket the load again to find the most
accurate but it's worth it as Universal burns WAY cleaner
than Unique. It also meters more smoothly having much
smaller discs .They are right next to each other on the burn
charts. I like 6 to 7.5 grains in the .44 Spl and Mag.
I am starting to like Universal a lot even though I have quite a
bit of Unique on hand as well.

---
Nemo
Click to expand...


I'll 2nd this. After reading many posts about Universal being the ballistic twin of Unique that meters / measures better and burns cleaner than Unique I wanted to try it, so I got a pound of it.

I did a batch initially of 7.5 gr in .45 Colt under 250 gr RNFP. It did meter well and did burn a little cleaner it seemed but, wasn't as accurate as the 8.5 gr Unique that is my standard load. It shot high.

Just did a 2nd batch of Universal 8.5 gr loads. I'm taking them to the range tomorrow to run them side by side with 8.5 gr Unique Loads to see how they do.

I really like Unique, I don't think its so dirty but, the Universal does meter better. If I can dial in a load that shoots as well or better than the Unique loads I may consider switching / using both.
 
Last edited:
glowe said:
I am paranoid about powder weight accuracy when reloading. I still use a RCBS Rockchucker single stage and have a digital scale. I am 100% confident that I am always getting the right load.

Lee powder measures are good for 2 things, black powder loading and something to dip with and weigh on the scale. I have used dippers for years and DO NOT EVER get the right weight the first try, no matter how many taps or re-dips I make.

A good electronic scale can be purchased for $50-$70 and you can rest assured that you will have the right load every time. These scales are accurate down to 0.1 grains and come with standard weights to keep track of the scale accuracy.
Click to expand...

That's because you "tap" them.

T'ant supposed to do that:)

Dip to overflow, scrape a straight edge over the top. Just like measuring flour.
They are as accurate as any volume based powder measure. .5cc is .5cc or whatever. I would trust them more than any digital scale unless it was lab quality and cost $2k.

Slow perhaps, but they do throw consistent.
 
With Unique, I hand weigh every charge dropped by my RCBS Uniflow measure. Unique just doesn't measure accurately. A good scale (I use the RCBS 1010) and make sure it is Zeroed, and a set of scale check weights, verified on a different scale is a must, and as mentioned look directly at the scale, not down at it. I set mine up on 3 pieces of 2X4, to elevate it to eye level on my bench. When you are working with any loads that approach maximum pressure I verify the weight. I do not like electronic scales, (yet). I have one, and there is too much variance in it. A couple friends of mine have used the electronic powder dispensers, and have accidentally left a different load keyed in and loaded several rounds of high powered rifle ammo with the wrong load, luckily it was way below correct charge, not way over. If you want to dispense powder directly from a powder measure, get a good adjustable one, and use a ball powder.
 
I have what I consider one of the best powder measures there was some years ago-the Ohaus DU-0-Measure. It's not a Harrell's Precision measure but does a superb job-except with Unique. I usually set the charge to about 1/2 gr less than desired and trickle the rest. It's inconsistent with my measure but may do well with others. for this reason when my last pound of Unique is done-I'm sticking with a better less smokey substitute-Universal Clays.

Schuetzen / Pistol Measure
 
Over 200 dollars for a POWDER MEASURE? SAY WHAT?????????????????

Not when I can get a mould with the extra that I save when I buy a Lyman #55 that will work well enough with Unique to keep the charges +/- .1gr or .2gr!

There is a trick to getting Unique to measure well in them. Make the cavity wider than deep. There are several settings on the #55 or cavity adjustments rather, and closing the lower ones, opening the top ones, with Unique is a much better choice.

In my Dillon measures, I use the low powder sensor with a weight on top of it to make them throw consistent charges. With a 9.0gr setting, they vary from 8.9gr to 9.1gr, that is +/- 1% or so. Good enough for the 45Colts I hang out with! ;)
 
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